Arms Export Licences: Israel

Debate between Zarah Sultana and Greg Hands

Tuesday 12th December 2023 Westminster Hall

[Greg Hands]

I thank the hon. Member for that; I heard his point earlier about the Committees. Of course, the Government strongly supports good parliamentary scrutiny of our defence export systems. However, my understanding is that, since the machinery of government change back in February, it has not been possible for the Committees to meet since, I think, March. That, and the organisation of the scrutiny of the Government, is most principally a matter for Parliament. The Government stand strongly in support of the scrutiny of defence exports. We have always been supportive of there being such a regime.

[Zarah Sultana]

Will the Minister give way?

[Greg Hands]

I am going to make a little progress.

We heard points about the situation on the ground from the hon. Members for Coventry South, for Birmingham, Hall Green (Tahir Ali), for Nottingham East (Nadia Whittome) and for East Lothian (Kenny MacAskill), and many others. The Foreign Secretary has been clear that Israel’s actions must comply with international humanitarian law and that it must take every step possible to minimise harm towards civilians.

[Zarah Sultana]

The Minister referenced the Government repeatedly saying that Israel must conform to international law. What assessment have the Government made of Israel’s compliance and conformity with international law? Has any assessment been made? In light of Israel’s actions, which consist of crimes against humanity, and which are not consistent with our arms export criteria, what will the Government do? These things are not matching up.

[Greg Hands]

Obviously we are monitoring the situation in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories very closely and we will take any action that the Government consider appropriate as the situation develops. The hon. Lady mentioned the Export Control Joint Unit. The ECJU has in place an established process for responding, at pace, to changing conditions in a country where the UK has previously granted export licences and where those licences remain extant. That situation is under constant review. The fact remains, however, that Hamas could end this conflict today, stopping the suffering of everybody, including the Palestinian people whom it continues to endanger.

I will now explore some of the points raised in this debate in greater depth. First, it is correct that the UK’s defence businesses have a trading relationship with Israel. I welcome the official Opposition’s support for that, for our defence contractors and for our defence exports industry—the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) rightly pointed that out, and I think that was a helpful development from the current generation of Labour Front Benchers. We should, however, put that trading relationship in perspective. In fact, our military exports to Israel are relatively small, representing just 0.02% of Israel’s military imports overall. The £42 million figure, quoted by the hon. Member for Coventry South and the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), was released by the Secretary of State for Defence. We stand by that figure; it is from 114 standard individual licences, and the total, accumulated from those licences, is indeed £42 million.

As Members may be aware, a company wanting to export military or dual-use goods must apply for a licence from the Government. The applications for those licences are assessed on a case-by-case basis against the strategic export licensing criteria—a system that is among the most rigorous and transparent in the world, and which provides a thorough risk assessment—

Trade Bill

Debate between Zarah Sultana and Greg Hands

Consideration of Lords amendments & Ping Pong & Ping Pong: House of Commons
Tuesday 19th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab) [V]]

The Government are at pains to say that the NHS is safe in their hands. They say that we do not need to worry about US healthcare companies. They say that it is fear-mongering. “Trust us,” they say, “and stop asking questions.” But in politics, if you want to know someone’s agenda, just look at their actions: see what they say when they think people are not listening. If we do that, we see that the Government are saying something quite different.

A 2011 book argued that the “monolith” of the NHS should be “broken up”, and that

“private operators should be allowed into the service, and, indeed should compete on price.”

The book set out a plan for a Conservative Government after the coalition. Its authors? Well, they were five newly elected Conservative MPs, who now sit on the Government Front Bench, including the Secretary of State for International Trade, the Home Secretary, the Foreign Secretary, and the new Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. It does not stop there. The Prime Minister, when he was a Back Bencher in this House, called for the privatisation of what he called the “monolithic” and “monopolistic” NHS. Writing in a 2002 book, he also said:

“we need to think about new ways of getting private money into the NHS.”

If we look at this Government’s actions, again we see their true intentions. During the last 10 years of Conservative rule, the NHS has not just been chronically underfunded; it has been privatised by stealth. The Health and Social Care Act 2012 opened the floodgates to private health companies. In the last five years, nearly £15 billion-worth of contracts have been handed to private providers; that is an 89% increase. In this crisis, again they see an opportunity. They call it NHS Test and Trace, but really we all know that it is Serco test and trace. Billions of pounds have been handed out to failing private companies that put profits before people.

The clearest test of all was last summer’s vote on the amendment to this Bill that would have provided legal protection for the NHS from outside private health companies. The Government voted it down, with not a single Tory MP rebelling to vote in its favour. Sadly, I do not have time to go through the donations, speaking fees and close links between Government Members and private healthcare companies and firms linked to NHS privatisation—but, of course, they know that too well.

In conclusion, the NHS is our proudest and most precious public service. Its staff are incredible, dedicated to public health and caring for our country. Today we can show our thanks. Conservative MPs can finally put their warm words into action. This House can vote to protect our NHS. I urge all Members to vote for the NHS protection amendment, Lords amendment 4, and for the scrutiny amendment, Lords amendment 6.

[Greg Hands]

With the leave of the House, I will respond to what has been a wide-ranging debate, covering many domestic and international matters.

Let me first say that the Government recognise that this House enjoys significant expertise and experience on questions of human rights. We are committed to ensuring that that knowledge is utilised, and to exploring how we can ensure that the views of colleagues are heard and considered on these issues in relation to our free trade agreements.

Let me turn to the points raised during the debate, although I do not have so long to respond. The shadow Secretary of State made a number of points. She said that the Government were stubbornly holding on to CRaG and the Ponsonby rule, despite entry into the 21st century. I was intrigued by that, because, of course, CRaG was introduced by the last Labour Government, in the 21st century—and the right hon. Lady supported it. I would add that, through CRaG, there is an ability to prevent ratification.

Through the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, we have added to the process the publication of negotiation objectives and economic impact assessments, and parliamentary statements after each round of negotiations. We have created the Trade and Agriculture Commission to inform Parliament; section 42 of the Agriculture Act reports; and the International Trade Committee and the International Agreements Sub-Committee having access to the texts to provide their own reports to Parliament.

The right hon. Lady mentioned China. She has come a long way in a short time on China. In her very first appearance at the Dispatch Box in this role on 12 May, she asked my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to make it clear to the USA that she would not agree to

“any version of article 32.10 of the USMCA that would constrain the UK’s ability to negotiate our own trade agreement with China”.—[Official Report, 12 May 2020; Vol. 676, c. 111.]

She did not want anything that would conflict with the UK’s ability to negotiate a trade agreement with China. I have been absolutely clear that the Government—

Sale of Arms: War in Yemen

Debate between Zarah Sultana and Greg Hands

Monday 13th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

Yes, we do. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and his team do so on a regular basis with Saudi Arabia and with other partners all the way around the world. We are immensely proud of the record that we have as a Government and as a country of promoting human rights around the world. That was absolutely the basis of the statement made by the Foreign Secretary in this place just last week.

[Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has announced that new arms sale to Saudi will commence, claiming that international humanitarian law had only been violated in “isolated incidents”. The Minister has said that he is not at liberty to disclose the number of incidents but, this morning, in response to my written question, the Government revealed that the Ministry of Defence’s own database records 516 potential violations of international humanitarian law since the war in Yemen began in 2015. In the light of that, will the Minister stand by the Secretary of State’s claim that violations of international law are only “isolated incidents”, or will the Government finally do the right thing and stop these arms sales?

[Greg Hands]

As I pointed out earlier, all potential incidents must, for these purposes, be treated as actual violations of international humanitarian law. I am not at liberty to comment on whatever numbers the hon. Lady may have in front of her, but it is clear that all potential incidents must be treated as actual incidents for the purposes of putting forward the consolidated criteria.