Infected Blood Inquiry

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I warmly congratulate the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) and the Father of the House, the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley), on securing this debate, and I add my thanks and those of the SNP for the commitment and leadership they have shown on this issue over so many years, particularly through the all-party parliamentary group. It is also right to recognise the considerable personal and professional experience that my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) brought to the debate right at the start.

Between 16 Back-Bench speakers and nine different interveners, many tributes have been paid to those who have lost their lives because of the infected blood scandal, and our condolences go to all those who have been bereaved. We have heard many moving stories this afternoon, and that perhaps is one of the most important points to take away: that this is not some abstract policy debate; this is about people, individuals and families whose lives have been completely transformed—often shattered—as a result of this scandal, and for many of whom time is now running out.

The impact has not just been living, and indeed dying, with the consequences of being infected or affected by contaminated blood products; it has also been the fight for justice, which itself has become all-consuming and a life-changing experience for so many people. So we also thank those campaigners, and we must now resolve to make sure that justice is delivered.

Among those campaigners is Joyce Donnelly, one of my constituents in Glasgow North, who is the convenor of the Scottish Infected Blood Forum. Her husband, Tom Donnelly, lived with haemophilia and received contaminated blood products at the Glasgow Royal Infirmary in the late 1970s and early 1980s. As a result, he contracted hepatitis C and lived with that condition for 35 years until his death in 2015. Joyce has campaigned passionately and tirelessly for justice and recompense for all those whose lives, in her words,

“were similarly blighted by a disaster that should never have been allowed to happen.”

I also want to thank other constituents who have been in touch and shared their stories in recent years and assure them of my support and solidarity.

When I met Joyce a couple of weeks ago, her frustration—like the frustration expressed by many Members today on behalf of their constituents—was palpable. The forum that Joyce convenes supports many people who have struggled and are struggling to cope with the impact the scandal has had on their lives and their families. We have heard examples of that across the Chamber today: people accused of being alcoholics; the pain and fatigue they suffered as a result of disease; the stigma they have had to put up with; and the survivor’s guilt, which a number of Members spoke about passionately. Now they are looking for justice and compensation before it is too late.

In some cases it is too late: even if the person infected is still alive, they have lived all these years without the financial support that could have made it easier to deal with the effects of their conditions. The interim compensation payments that have been made to many are welcome, but in many cases they are not enough. It is now estimated that around four infected people are dying every week; as my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) said, nine people in Scotland have passed away since the interim report was published. So the need for urgent action by the Government could not be clearer, and the lack of action only adds to the frustration, and even anger.

There is action that could be taken now. Indeed, it is action that was recommended by the inquiry, especially on the appointment and even interim formation of the recommended arm’s length body. Everyone accepts that compensation must be paid, so the process of establishing how that will be paid and beginning to compile who will be paid could have already started, even if what or how much they will be paid still has to be calculated. The hon. Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) articulated that issue clearly.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, in the light of all the suffering, it is now time to see generosity, not penny-pinching?

[Patrick Grady]

Yes, that has come through very clearly in all the contributions.

Sir Brian also recommended that interim payments should be made now—not “at pace”, not at some indeterminate point in the future, but now—to recognise deaths that have otherwise not been recognised: bereaved parents and bereaved children who have lost their parents, where these have not already been recognised by an interim payment.

It is also important to recognise, as the right hon. Members for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) and for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) and others have said, that ultimate responsible for this lies at UK Government level, because the infections took place before the establishment of devolution; before control of the health services was devolved.

The Government say that they accept the moral case for compensation, as they should. The current Chancellor’s testimony to the inquiry described the scandal as

“a failure of the British state”.

Sir Brian Langstaff’s report concluded that

“wrongs were done at an individual, collective and systemic levels.”

The Paymaster General has the opportunity to answer some of these key questions today, many of which have already been asked by Members, but which I repeat to make clear that the SNP shares those concerns. When will the Government appoint a chair and interim members to serve on the arm’s length body and advisory board that will administer the compensation scheme? What engagement have the Government had with Sir Brian Langstaff since 5 April? Have they been asked for or provided written statements in response to the report? I echo the questions about rule 9 inquiries that my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) asked.

Where does responsibility lie within the civil service on bringing forward Government action? Has a named senior civil servant been appointed since Sue Gray moved on? Above all, as my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) said, what on earth does “at pace” mean? The Government keep saying they are working at pace, but Members who have spoken in this debate, our constituents and the campaign groups can see no evidence of that whatsoever. The Paymaster General said again at questions this morning, in answer to my hon. Friend, that it was all terribly complex and the Government had to take time to get things right, but surely the inquiry was set up in the first place to make those recommendations so that the Government could take them forward without having to do even more additional work?

As Joyce put it to me, people are fed up waiting for jam tomorrow from this Government. Perhaps the Government are worried about the total bill, which will not necessarily go down even if more people pass away, because they will have families who are entitled to compensation. Perhaps they are worried about setting a precedent for future scandals, or perhaps they just do not see this as a political priority. Today’s debate should make it clear that this is a priority. The price that our constituents have paid is higher than any financial price that the Government might have to pay. The best way to avoid this being a precedent is to avoid future scandals. The use of contaminated blood was totally avoidable. This scandal should never have happened, and the inquiries have made it clear, and will continue to make it clear, that plenty of lessons are to be learned so that something similar does not happen again. The key lesson from this debate is that people have waited long enough. It is time for compensation and justice to be delivered.

Nature and Climate Declaration

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Wednesday 9th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (Ind)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Grady, and I am glad to have caught your eye slightly spontaneously—clearly, there is space in the debate for further contributions. I congratulate the hon. Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) on securing the debate. It is absolutely fantastic to see Government Members proposing debates on this topic, as there have been recent Westminster Hall debates in which the Government Benches have not been occupied. The hon. Gentleman spoke passionately about what his constituents have said to him. Other Members said the same, and I have definitely had that experience. That is testament to the power of constituents lobbying Members of Parliament, engaging with us, making those visits and inviting us along to the parish services, nature demonstrations and woodland walks.

The hon. Gentleman spoke about the church services that have been held to mark COP27. That reminded me of the many church services and demonstrations—the entire range of civil society activities—that took place in Glasgow this time last year for COP26. People from Glasgow North and across the city were immensely proud to host that conference and welcome the whole world. The momentum that was generated there cannot be lost, which is why debates such as this are so important, particularly as it is taking place while COP27 is happening in Egypt.

Many constituents have asked me to sign the nature and climate declaration, and I have been very happy to do so and to work with Zero Hour and the other organisations promoting it. On several occasions, constituents have made the journey to London to speak at mass lobby events on the Climate and Ecology Bill. The attempt to take it through the House of Lords is generating a lot of momentum, and I really hope the Government pay attention to what is said in the upper House. Not all of us are fans of the fact that people can be appointed for life to that place, but it has a role in the UK’s constitution. If the Government are serious about protecting the UK’s constitution, they need to show that they are taking the House of Lords seriously. When it debates issues such as this, it is important that the Government pay attention.

It is timely that this debate is happening during COP27. In the Chamber today, the Prime Minister was subject to some robust questioning from both sides of the House. One of the key points for the Minister to consider is that there is growing cross-party consensus not just about the need to tackle the climate emergency and the crisis facing nature, but about some of the steps that have to be taken. As we said in the debate that the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) secured last week, if Members of the Conservative party want to come up with free market-based solutions to tackle the climate emergency and preserve ecology, that is fine, but the problem is that externalising pollution and damaging factors from the current economic system caused the climate emergency in the first place. We can debate how we reach the targets—that is fine—but we have to agree that the targets are absolutely necessary.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the best delivery mechanisms is local government, but the Government are not prepared to devolve power and resources to local authorities, which are often closest to the people and are where the best solutions can be found?

[Patrick Grady]

Yes, indeed, and a lot of local authorities are doing what they can. The city authority in Glasgow, having hosted COP, is determined to be a leader in reaching net zero and for Glasgow to become a net zero city. Many local authorities and devolved institutions have been way ahead of the Government in recognising and declaring a climate emergency. To date, we have not had a Minister accept at the Dispatch Box that the planet is facing climate emergency, and adopt that language. If the Minister were prepared to do that, that would be a helpful step forward.

[Patrick Grady]

I think it is important that we address loss and damage. It is a question of climate justice, and this is a concept that the Scottish Government have embraced for many years. The reality is that those of us in the developed part of the world—western, liberal economies—have benefited from an industrialisation process that has led to the anthropogenic climate change we are experiencing. The effects of that climate change are being felt first and hardest in developing parts of the world that have done the least to cause climate change. Whether people use the language of reparation, loss and damage or mitigation and adaptation, the reality is that it will have to be paid for.

Climate change is a reality that people have to adapt to. As we said in last week’s debate, there are already significant population flows. The population flows that are coming to these islands are as nothing compared to what is happening with internal displacement of people in Africa and Asia. There are small island states that are simply not going to exist any more, but the people who live on them have to go and live somewhere, and that has to be paid for.

It is not necessarily helpful to get tied up in the language around how the finance is leveraged. There is absolutely a role for the private sector and private funding. I was very interested to attend, at last year’s COP, events organised by the Global Ethical Finance Initiative, which spoke about how the private sector can ethically, effectively and sustainably leverage funding that helps businesses grow and develop but that also tackles precisely these challenges.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Last week, I asked the Leader of the House if we could have some progress on the pledge on accessing climate finance for poorer countries. She could not answer that question. I have asked for a debate. It would be great if we could have a statement from the Government on the progress on access to climate finance.

[Patrick Grady]

The hon. Member is absolutely right, and I would support a bid for such a debate—I might even notify the Chair in advance that I wish to speak, rather than popping up at random.

As the hon. Member says, it is all good and well making pledges—the Prime Minister spoke many times today about the £11.6 billion that has been pledged—but that money has to be disbursed. It has to be spent effectively, and that cannot be at the expense of other development projects. Climate funding and justice have always required additionality to pre-existing aid flows. Without that, we will go backwards on progress towards meeting the very sustainable development goals that the hon. Member for St Ives spoke about, which school pupils in his constituency, as in mine, are so concerned about.

This issue has to have implications for the Government’s domestic agenda as well. The reality is that new coal and nuclear power stations are not a sustainable solution, nor a route to protecting climate or nature. In Scotland, we are very proud that 100% of our electricity requirements are generated by renewable sources. We want to continue to build on that as time goes on. That is why it is important that the UK Government, and indeed devolved Governments and local authorities, start developing a broader vision of a circular economy that has wellbeing at its heart. I am very relieved that the language of growth at all costs, which was briefly the mantra of the UK Government for 40 days or so from the start of September, has quietly disappeared. Infinite growth is simply not possible on a finite planet. While growth is an important indicator, it is not the only indicator of wellbeing, prosperity or success.

All those considerations have to fit into the Government’s thinking. A cleaner, greener future is also a cheaper and safer future. I have heard from constituents who are concerned that, in among the cost of living crisis and everything else that is going on in the world, some of these priorities—particularly those we heard about at COP26 last year—have begun to be forgotten. That is why the COP process is so important: we have that annual reminder, the whole of civil society is mobilised and Governments are motivated—including the latest Prime Minister. Actually, if we want to tackle the cost of living crisis, adopting a more sustainable approach to our energy use and our consumption of goods and so on will lead to a cheaper and safer future at the same time.

The fact that there is a certain amount of cross-party consensus behind the climate and nature declaration represents an opportunity for the Government. Support will be there for action that helps us meet our targets. The Government should recognise that and capitalise on it. The fact that we are having the debate during COP27 makes it particularly timely. We all look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.

Climate Change and Human Security

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (Ind)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) on securing such an important debate and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) on supporting it, as numerous Members have done.

In 2007 the Stern report stated that climate change was the greatest and widest-ranging market failure that the world had ever seen, but here we are—all these years later—and it seems that warning is still falling on deaf ears. I used to stand in Westminster Hall debates and say that climate change threatens to undo progress towards the millennium development goals and the sustainable development goals. After only seven years since I was elected in 2015, we can now say that climate change is undoing progress towards the millennium development goals and the sustainable development goals. It is making it harder to reach poverty eradication targets, gender equality targets, and education and health targets. In some cases, we are going backwards on those indicators, after a period of progress that should be acknowledged.

Climate change is not something that is happening somewhere else, in faraway parts of the world; as the hon. Member for Bath said, it is beginning to disrupt our own way of life in these islands, across western Europe and across what we call the developed world, and it is becoming increasingly clear that things are going to get worse before they start to get any kind of better. This is an issue of huge concern to my constituents in Glasgow North, who I hear from regularly on all the points raised by the hon. Lady.

Glasgow could not have been prouder to host COP26 last year, but the conference was not a one-off: the clue is in the name. It is part of a process, and in the very near future—next week—COP27 will take place, where the work must continue on the progress towards making real the commitments to which Governments have pledged, whether that is coming up with the funds that have been committed to mitigation and adaptation measures, or making clear statements and demonstrations of action towards the targets that have been agreed upon and that we need to go further and faster to reach. The security implications—in the broadest meaning of that word—can already be seen all around the world.

The scarcity of vital natural resources, water scarcity and crop failure are often the root of instability in so many of the flashpoints and troubled parts of the world that we debate not infrequently here in Westminster Hall, including the situation in Tigray, Ethiopia. I firmly suspect that if people had more confidence in predicting the rains and being able to grow crops to feed themselves and their families, the chances are that the instability there and in so many other parts of the world would be significantly lessened. Many of the roots of such conflicts are to do with scarcity, particularly of water and food, the supply of which is directly affected by climate change.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we always look at these things in silos and do not make the connections, and that if we put climate change in the centre of the connections we created, we might tackle these issues much better?

[Patrick Grady]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I will reflect a little more on those interconnections later. This is exactly about that kind of domino effect, because the Government are really concerned about the small boats crisis and people coming to the United Kingdom, but what are many of those people fleeing? They are fleeing scarcity and instability in their home countries. The changing climate is leading to the massive displacement of populations across the world. Difficult though the UK Government might think the migrant crisis is on the shores of Great Britain, it is considerably greater in other parts of the world, such as Africa and Asia, where there are massive movements of populations—and climate change is at the root of it all.

It is worth reflecting on the instability that even the concept of climate change is starting to cause; and I will return to some of these ideas later. There is climate change denial in so many parts of the world, even in so-called western liberal developed democracies. When climate change starts to become an ideological divide, that in itself causes instability and is part of a polarisation that we are seeing across the world, particularly in the United States, which the hon. Member for Bath mentioned. The extremes of response to the climate crisis that we have seen in the space of the change of one Administration—and the risk of that swinging back in the other direction—is in itself a significant challenge to the world’s ability to respond to climate change. That has an impact on the politics of those countries and, perhaps, to a certain extent here.

Here at home we are also experiencing the effects of climate change. Just in the past 12 months we have experienced increasing extremes of weather. There was a heatwave not just down here in London: we even had record temperatures up in Scotland. Although on one level people might make a joke about that and say it is quite a nice thing—“It makes a change” and so on—it is becoming a new reality that we have to adapt to, and that is not cost-free.

As the hon. Lady said, climate change also affects the food supply and food security in Scotland and across these islands. Last week, there was a Westminster Hall debate about global food security; we used to talk about food security as a problem elsewhere, but it is becoming a real challenge in the United Kingdom too. That is also true of our energy security, as she set out.

There is a real danger of a feedback loop: we have a shortage of energy so we dig more coal out of the ground and burn it, but that worsens the problem of climate change and increases the challenge and the costs to the Government in the long run. The Government have to grasp that tackling climate change is the ultimate idea of preventive spend. We are going to have to pay for the costs of a changing climate, which has largely been brought about by the process of industrialisation in the west over the past 150 years or so, and we can do that either now in such a way that we prevent, mitigate and adapt to the changes, or later as the changes become more extreme and severe. That will cost us more in the long run, so it makes financial sense to start to invest now in tackling the causes and effects of climate change. It will also enhance our security.

That brings me to my challenges to the Government. I do not know what the right word is, but this is not about ideology. There may be free market, right-wing solutions to the climate crisis—setting aside what Lord Stern said back in 2007—so bring them forward. Let the market compete to find the most effective form of renewable energy and the most effective way to maximise crop yields, but not in a way that continues to cause problems. Externalising the costs of those things in the first place led to where we are.

Some of us might think that we need a bit more in the way of state intervention and direction of spending, but we should all start from an agreement that the climate and nature emergency is real. Sadly, I am not 100% convinced that everyone on the Government Benches would be willing to stand up and say that. In the Chamber, I asked the previous Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg)—in the short time he was in post—whether he believed that the climate emergency is real and that anthropogenic climate change is happening today, and he completely dodged the question. Ministers in the western world in this day and age should not be dodging that kind of question. The answer to the question, “Is anthropogenic climate change happening today in front of us?” is yes. There might be a debate about how we tackle it, how we respond and how we prevent it from getting worse, but the answer to the question is yes.

I am sure the Minister will confirm that the Government’s position is that the climate change that is being experienced all over the world is the direct result of human behaviour over the past 150 years or so. It might be a bit difficult to get the Government to start to adopt the language of climate justice and to recognise the historical obligation that we in the west have to people in other parts of the world who are being hit by climate change first and hardest, but the point of debates such as this is to put those points to them and hear them argue either why that is not necessary or why they do not agree.

In among all that is the mainstreaming of our net zero targets. We should put that at the heart of Government policy and then, yes, debate how things will be delivered and the best way to invest resources, and the best way to let the market respond, if that is what people believe, or whether to let the state intervene more heavily, if that is what people believe.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The hon. Gentleman is generous to give way again. He is coming to the issue of delivery. Ultimately, we all agree that the pathway is there but the delivery is not happening fast enough. That really worries me, which is why I said at the very beginning of the debate that this is not a bus that we can miss: we have to get on with things now. Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the Climate Change Committee, which has said that the Government must now urgently focus on the delivery of their own targets?

[Patrick Grady]

Yes, absolutely. The Government have agreed to the targets and achieved a certain amount of cross-party consensus on them. That is important given how some people want to use the very concept of climate change as a political wedge issue, when in fact it is something that should unite us as far as possible. Especially among all the chaos and revolving doors for Ministers of late, the Government should speak with one voice on these issues. Irrespective of which Department or Minister happens to respond to this debate, we should hear the voice of the UK Government, with all the weight that that is supposed to carry.

Even though we do not have a Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office Minister responding to today’s debate, it is important to address the question of the aid budget, its diminution, the cuts to it that are being applied across the board and the risk of further cuts to come. I come back to my point about preventive spend. If we do not support small farmers in different parts of Africa to grow sustainable crops without the need for expensive and polluting fertilisers, if we do not support communities to access fresh and clean water, and if we do not support girls to get into education so that they can raise healthier and stronger families and contribute to their economy, we really should not be surprised if, further down the line, those people start to get quite annoyed and upset about the kind of lifestyle that is being forced upon them and decide to take matters into their own hands. Indeed, they may decide to get on a small boat and come across to the United Kingdom, where everything seems to be much more comfortable. The Government must realise the importance of preventive spend and not just address the issues of climate justice and poverty eradication but understand that it is to everybody’s benefit to tackle such issues.

We all have to agree that this is the defining challenge of our times. By all means we should have a debate about the precise way in which we can reach our goals, but let us not argue about whether those goals have to be met, because not meeting them will simply make matters considerably worse, not just for people overseas but for people on these islands, too. We have to continue to hold the Government to account in the way that our constituents want us to, and we have to hope that the Government are prepared to recognise the consensus that can exist and get us forward and closer to tackling the causes and effects of climate change.

Community Energy Schemes

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Wera Hobhouse]

I thank the right hon. and learned Gentleman for that analysis. Do we all want Ferraris? Who knows? But we probably all want community energy. The problem is indeed the cost of entry for small local suppliers, and that is what the Government need to look at. As we have already heard from the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), it does not work on the ground. When the right exists, fine, but what is the practice? We need to look at what we can do to change the practice and at what is affordable for the small companies that want to enter the market.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

The hon. Lady is being very generous with her time. As I have said in previous debates, I have local constituent groups who are dead keen on community energy and really want to be able to rise to the opportunity. In addition to rising to climate change targets and reducing emissions, there is an issue about resilience to climate change. We now have people in different parts of the country who have been without power for four or five days because of climate change-related weather storms. If we had local generation, there would be additional resilience in the system that would perhaps protect or shelter people a little bit from some of the damaging consequences of changing weather.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Lots of small and diverse players are probably the answer to our future energy demands. The Government in the past have always considered bigger is better, economies of scale and all the rest of it, but we need to look much more favourably at smaller, diverse suppliers.

I need to make some progress, so I will remind everybody where we were. The Bill would lead to energy market reform that would empower community-owned and run schemes to sell local renewable energy directly to households, rather than small companies buying energy from bigger companies, then selling it on. It would make new community energy businesses viable and by bypassing large utilities, they would keep significant additional value within local economies. More of the money that we use to pay our electricity bills would circulate back to our local communities to create more skilled local jobs, more viable local businesses, stronger local economies and greater resilience.

Let us take my constituency of Bath as an example. Bath and West Community Energy has delivered 12.35 MW of community-owned solar photovoltaics, in addition to one hydro scheme. Many of these projects have been installed in schools and community buildings across Bath, including Ralph Allen School, Oldfield School, Walcot rugby club, Newbridge Primary School and Lewis House. Bath and West Community Energy systems generate enough electricity to match the annual equivalent of 4,000 homes. They have distributed nearly £300,000 back into local community grants, which go into supporting community action on carbon reduction and fuel poverty, which has been mentioned.

The group supports a wide range of schemes, ranging from community orchards and reuse and repair schemes to fuel poverty advice and even a cycle-to-work scheme using e-bikes. I am delighted that our local electricity distribution network operator, Western Power Distribution, is a registered supporter of the local electricity campaign. However, there are a number of problems facing local suppliers, including those in my constituency. Bath and West Community Energy has identified and is developing nearly 40 MW in a pipeline of projects that will work with communities, commercial developers and site owners, but its ability to commission the pipeline will depend on a number of different factors.

One key factor is grid capacity. This area is currently heavily constrained. Investment is needed in grid improvement, but Bath and West Community Energy must compete with commercial companies with much more resources to secure a grid connection. Smaller operators do not have the financial resources that big commercial operators have. Another factor is partnership with local authorities. There is huge potential, and I am delighted that Bath and North East Somerset Council supports the Local Electricity Bill. Councillors keep telling me how popular community energy projects in their wards are in the consultation stages, but many projects do not make it to reality. There must be stronger support for local authorities to establish joint ventures and utilise local authority finance to invest in local community projects that generate local social and economic benefits on both public estates and in the wider community.

What is the biggest barrier to community energy? It is the right to local supply. Current energy market and licensing rules mean that community energy schemes to build new renewable generation infrastructure and then sell power to local customers face costs that are too high to make the schemes financially viable. A report by the Institute for Public Policy Research states that the financial, technical and operational challenges mean that initial costs exceed £1 million. As the Environmental Audit Committee has said, community energy contributes 278 MW of renewable energy as of 2020. That is less than 0.5% of total UK electricity generation.

Community energy has seen almost no growth in the past six years—a great waste of potential. However, there is a solution. I urge the Minister to add his support to the Local Electricity Bill, which was introduced by the hon. Member for Wantage and is supported by 281 MPs from all parties. The Bill sets out the mechanism that can fix the UK’s local supply problem. Clause 1 states the purpose of the Bill—to enable the local supply of electricity. Clause 2 sets out the aim of smaller-scale renewable generators to supply electricity directly to a local area. Clause 3 gives Ofgem the task of setting up the local supplier licence process. Crucially, it requires that the process ensures that local suppliers face set-up costs and complexity proportionate to the scale of their operations.

Ethiopia, Sudan and Tigray: Humanitarian Situation

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

It is a genuine pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Bardell, albeit on a very sobering topic, as has been outlined by the speakers we have heard so far. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) on securing this opportunity to consider the issue again.

We considered the conflict back in September, and one of the messages of that debate was the risk of deterioration of the situation. In fact, one of the questions I asked was:

“What if the worst has yet to come?”—[Official Report, 8 September 2021; Vol. 700, c. 95WH.]

The speeches we have heard and the evidence that has been presented, particularly the findings today from the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, show that the situation has got considerably worse, and that must be of real concern to us. Bringing the issue back to the Floor of Westminster Hall keeps it alive and gives a new Minister an opportunity to respond and to think again, as the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) has just said, about what opportunities there might be for the UK to exercise some influence.

I spoke in the last debate about the particular challenges in Oromia. They have become more acute as a result of the developments in recent weeks and months. I have a constituent who is from that area and who is passionate about the right of the people there to have democratic self-determination and the kind of political autonomy that regions, countries and nations in our part of the world enjoy. However, we enjoy that peacefully and democratically. We resolve our differences in forums like this, not by taking up arms or through the horrific war crimes being reported. Even people who hold those genuine aspirations ought to live up to the standards that they are seeking.

That also speaks to the deep-seated and historical regional and tribal tensions across the whole of Ethiopia and the wider regional context. As the right hon. Member for Islington North said, Ethiopia was never a colony in the way that many African countries have been, but that does not mean that it has not been affected by the colonisation and map-drawing that went on in the continent all those years ago. That is why the issue of Eritrea keeps raising its head.

Not long ago, I was in the right hon. Member’s constituency for the photo exhibition by Eritrea Focus, commemorating the 40th anniversary of the political imprisonment of journalists and politicians in that country, the deterioration and ending of democracy in any meaningful form, the militarisation of the country, the influence that it still apparently seeks, and the destabilising effect that appears to be having in the conflict in Ethiopia. I should say that my hon. Friend the Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara), who we will hear from, was also at that important event.

I would draw the Minister’s attention—I think I sent it to her predecessor, and I will certainly send it to her—to the report produced by the Oromia Support Group detailing the atrocities and extra-judicial killings of the people of that region, mostly by the national Government, by their assessment. However, it is very clear, from other reports and today’s debate, that all sides must take responsibility for the violence that has been experienced.

The hon. Member for Tewkesbury said that he saw the BBC report; I heard it on Radio 4, because the BBC these days multitasks in that way. It was incredibly sobering, and very worrying to hear of the spiralling effect that now appears to be happening. Violence is begetting violence. There was a woman who had to flee because her son had been brutally murdered.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Is it not the case, time and again, that women are often the worst victims of violence in that form? Sexual violence against women is also something that we should point out when we talk about this terrible conflict.

[Patrick Grady]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Hearing any story from mothers, like that one, is heartbreaking. She is right; women are affected—they are victims, if she wants to use that word. Women could also be a big part of the solution. If women’s voices were heard more frequently in these debates, in the peace forums and in the democratic institutions—such as exist—in those countries, perhaps we would not be seeing this level of violence. I think that is an incredibly important point.

As I said, violence is begetting violence; the attempts by the Ethiopian Government to root out the Oromo Liberation Army lead to further resentment of the central Government and less willingness to engage with processes. That leads to displacement across the region and into neighbouring countries, including Sudan, which is also a topic for this debate. It is increasingly clear, as others have said, that there needs to be an external brokering of peace. Whether that is the United Nations, the African Union, the European Union or some other body, the UK is a key player—either directly, as a member of some of those institutions, or through important relationships to them—and it must play its role.

I want to echo some of what the Select Committee Chair said about aid. The Library briefing shows—even before the aid cut from 0.7% to 0.5% of GDP—the decrease in overall bilateral aid since 2015 to Ethiopia, but within that, the increasing amount of money being spent on humanitarian response. That is a very stark lesson in basic development theory: if we stop spending money on long-term development projects—on long-term peacebuilding, infrastructure, education and so on—then all of a sudden we find ourselves spending money on humanitarian relief, on trying to resolve the problems of conflict and war, and at the end of the day, the problem is not being resolved; it is spiralling.

The Government must look again at their budget. It is all good and well for the Chancellor to say in the Budget that we will get back to 0.7% before the end of this Parliament; but that will not undo the damage that is already being done. Every time the Government say that they will increase support to Ethiopia, that is great, welcome and necessary but it means that, by definition, somewhere else is suffering; somewhere else is experiencing a cut because the overall budget has declined. It was going to decline anyway because GDP had gone down as a result of the pandemic—we all understand that—but this is adding to that unnecessarily.

At a time when the Government are supposed to be showing global leadership, which we are all calling for in this debate, the stark facts are there for anyone to see who has picked up the Library report or reports by the International Development Committee. Sadly, I will not be able to make tomorrow’s APPG being organised by the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson), which the right hon. Member for Islington North mentioned, but I am looking forward to reports from it. I strongly encourage the Minister to pay attention to that. When we had a briefing before the last Westminster Hall debate, some very useful points, with strong and clear recommendations, were made, and I suspect some of those will be heard.

This has been an important opportunity to consider these issues, especially given how rapidly the situation is changing. We appreciate that the opportunity for the UK Government is limited, but that does not mean that it does not exist. I very much hope that the new Minister will be willing to look at this afresh and I look forward to hearing what she has to say in response.

China: Labour Programme in Tibet

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Wednesday 7th October 2020 Westminster Hall

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone, and to be back in Westminster Hall. I join others in congratulating the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) on securing the debate and on his incredibly comprehensive opening contribution, which has been followed by equally powerful contributions from Members representing a wide range of parties and the wide range of views within some of those parties. As the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) said, we are identifying a new and increasing consensus about the importance of speaking out about the actions of the Chinese state and, particularly in this debate, its treatment of the Tibetan peoples and other minorities.

The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) is right that my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee West (Chris Law) would have been here in other circumstances. He has been a passionate campaigner with his colleagues on the all-party parliamentary group on issues affecting Tibet over the years. He has been on visits, and has met some visitors, as I have had the privilege of meeting, including the Sikyong and others, who have come to address the all-party group.

The report that the debate has highlighted and the efforts of Dr Adrian Zenz have given a new level of coverage to, and awareness of, the tragedies that are unfolding. It is important also to recognise the role of journalists who have picked up on the report, in particular Reuters, which, in the face of the restrictions on journalists that Members have spoken about, has produced a comprehensive piece of coverage and analysis, and attempted to seek a response from the Chinese authorities.

The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham is right: for many people, the oppression of Tibet and the exile of the Dalai Lama is a kind of static fact of life. However, the report has brought home the chilling reality of all the different horrors—enforced military-style training and education, environmental degradation and what the report calls a coercive lifestyle change for the Tibetan people from nomadism and farming to wage labour, which is the strongest, most clear and targeted attack on traditional Tibetan livelihoods that we have seen since the cultural revolution. As others have said, it is essentially a form of cultural genocide, or indeed worse.

We know that the Chinese regime denies that and says that everything is voluntary and nothing is forced, but that does not match the reality that has been reported and the experience elsewhere. As we have heard, the United Nations estimates that at least a million people in Xinjiang, mostly from the ethnic Uyghur population, are subjected to similar treatment—detained in camps, subjected to ideological education and forced sterilisation, as the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) said, and other horrors—despite Chinese claims that the participants in such camps have “graduated”. The Australian Strategic Policy Institute identified at least 14 detention centres being built this year alone—14 out of 380 that it has identified across the country using its satellite technology and other methods. Speaking up and speaking out has to be an important first step, and global leaders must recognise and respond to the report and other similar analysis.

The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland was right to say that the global attitude towards China is changing. Throughout Members’ contributions to this debate, we have heard the options that are open to Governments, including the UK Government, be it travel bans for identified officials, Magnitsky sanctions, the implementation and monitoring of the Ruggie principles and the business and human rights action plans that the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) spoke of, or questioning the role of specific companies. We have had a lot of debate in the House recently about the role of Huawei and how it is allowed to operate here in the United Kingdom. Most importantly, journalists, academics and international observers should have a right of independent access for monitoring in Tibet and the other regions.

The UK Government have to support all those calls. This is an important moment for the UK. If it wants to emerge now as a new, global Britain, it has to demonstrate that it will have the courage to rise to the challenges. That is why questions around participation in the winter Olympics in 2022 have to be part of that consideration. They have to be part of our use of soft power, how we make our views on these issues felt around the world and how we engage.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the most perilous moments will be when the Dalai Lama dies? It will create an interregnum, and the Chinese Communist party will use that moment to undermine the Buddhist tradition and spiritual leadership. We have to be aware of that.

[Patrick Grady]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and indeed His Holiness the Dalai Lama has said that he will think about whether or not he wants to be reincarnated. The Chinese Government will have to take that into account. If we are going to talk about religious minorities, a growing number of adherents to the Catholic faith are also concerned about the Vatican’s relationship with China. We must bear that in mind as well.

The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland spoke about the Scottish Government’s previous relationship with China in the context of how other Governments’ relationships have changed. When the current First Minister visited China, she made a point of speaking out on human rights, equality and women’s rights. She made the point that economic growth and equality have to go hand in hand, because there cannot be successful, sustainable economic growth without respect for equality and human rights. That has to be remembered.

In all of this, we have to think about our individual responsibilities as well. The hon. Member for Bristol East and others spoke about bottled water and supply chains. We all have to think about consumer goods that appear to be too good to be true in terms of price and quality. As the hon. Member for Congleton said, whose hands have made that cheap clothing, cheap electronics or cheap hand sanitiser? Who made our cheap facemasks that have suddenly become ubiquitous? The wipes that we have in the room were made in Turkey—I made a point of checking before I spoke—but it is clear that many of our facemasks were made in China.

The hon. Member for Bristol East spoke of one of her constituents. My constituent Yu Yu Williamson died, sadly, during the summer. She moved to the UK from China as a young woman. When she came here, she was able to have access to free media and understand the truth of the regime that she had been brought up in. From that point, she never stopped campaigning for the rights and freedoms of her people, particularly the rights of the Tibetans to self-determination and religious freedom across the country. She also campaigned on concerns about organ harvesting and the oppression of Falun Gong practitioners. She was an ardent lobbyist. It is possible that Members present met here if they were ever outside in Parliament Square, because she was a regular presence at the Falun Gong protests that took place outside. Her campaigning meant that she was never able to return safely to the country of her birth. I pay tribute to her and send my deepest sympathies and condolences to her family and many friends in Scotland and around the world. I commend the beautiful obituary that appeared in The Herald—perhaps I will send it round to the Members who have taken part in the debate.

We owe it to people such as Yu Yu, countless other campaigners around the world, and the millions who are suffering under oppression in China to continue to challenge and question the actions of the Chines regime. I hope that the Minister will rise to that challenge today.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Patrick Grady

Monday 4th February 2019 Westminster Hall

[Patrick Grady]

The United Kingdom has consistently negotiated derogations, alternative arrangements, opt-outs and so on throughout its history. The point of membership of the European Union is that, within the Union, a country can help to shape its direction and its future. Brexit will take us out completely.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, “We want to become a sovereign country again,” is a completely misleading phrase? All of us in the European Union are sovereign members; we are sharing and pooling sovereignty. That is the whole point about the European Union.

[Patrick Grady]

I was going to make that exact point in my peroration. Members can probably guess what that will be.

The problem is that this deal is not good enough. It has already been rejected by Parliament, and the Prime Minister has had to accept that it needs to be renegotiated so that we have these magical alternative arrangements. That in itself demonstrates that if the House—if parliamentarians, whether we are delegates or representatives—cannot agree on the shape and form of Brexit, then it has to be put back to the people, either in a people’s vote or in a general election. I assure the House that the Scottish National Party fears neither of those.