Local Museums

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Ian Murray

Thursday 5th March 2026 Westminster Hall

[Wera Hobhouse]

Since we have a little time, we should congratulate the whole sector for making museums so much more engaging and fun. I remember being dragged to museums when I was young. They were boring places to be, and I could just about survive for half an hour. These days, museums are places where people really want to stay, because the whole sector has been transformed into something with which everybody can engage. We should take this opportunity to congratulate the museum sector for all it has done in the last generation.

[Ian Murray]

We should congratulate everyone involved. The way that we curate and develop museums is renowned across the world. Many countries look to the UK for the expertise to build their own capability, because we do the best museums and exhibitions in the world and have the best skills. Congratulations to all of them.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South wants to talk about the Lunar Gardens project. Baroness Twycross will be delighted to talk to her about that, and we will make sure my hon. Friend has an appropriate meeting in place as soon as possible.

My hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) talked about her three children, and how museums are a key component of the local community and education. She also talked about entertainment and telling the stories of the past that shaped future generations. I have a five-year-old and a one-year-old, and my five-year-old loves being in museums. He loves looking at the exhibitions, but he loves just being in big spaces he can enjoy and run around in. I do not know if Dracula is a son of Derby, but it is something that we should perhaps debate further, maybe in an Adjournment debate with the lights out.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Douglas McAllister) is absolutely right that Denny’s shipyard built the Cutty Sark, and it celebrates the proud innovation and heritage of shipbuilding on the Clyde. It might not be an entirely accurate statistic, but I think I am right in saying that, 150 years ago, 90% of the ships sailing anywhere in the world were built either on the Clyde or somewhere near the Clyde. That innovation and heritage has to be respected and celebrated. He rightly talked about the local pride of maintaining and developing local museums that tell local stories. I think the statistics show that 89% of adults say that museums are important to their local pride and local culture.

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) said that Captain Cook would probably have been a constituent 300 years ago. I would probably describe him as an L5Y—only half the Chamber will know what I am talking about. Again, Baroness Twycross will be delighted to meet my hon. Friend to talk about some of the issues he has with museums in his constituency. He said something important that sums up the whole debate: “Some museums are small in scale but enormous in impact.” That is great for telling local stories. It is the impact on young people, schools and heritage that he is talking about. He also talked about the Land of Iron getting a national title. Arts Council England, via accreditation, will consider all requests from museums to become nationally styled where they have a strong story and strong case to make.

On the Captain Cook Museum, Middlesbrough council museums were awarded £240,000 from the museum renewal fund last year, and the Land of Iron was awarded a MEND grant worth £650,000 in February last year, so we are supporting those museums. For the hon. Member for Bath, we had 93% satisfaction for her speech as well. She talked about what is happening with the Bath museums, and she talked about museums closing and the delicate position that many local museums, particularly smaller ones, are in.

I do not want to diminish the seriousness of a lot of the stories we have heard about our local museums, but an independent academic study has found that since 2000 the number of museums in the UK has risen. Despite the 500 closures since 2000, there have been more new museums in the UK, although it has plateaued since about 2015-16. There is a lot of work to do, but it is not all bad news in our museum sector. Arts Council England supports the museums and schools programme with £1.2 million a year to make sure it happens.

It is wonderful that the shadow Minister has some Dracula jokes, but they are so old that perhaps they should be in a museum themselves. However, museums need local authority funding. We should not turn this into a political debate, as it has been so collegiate today, but the last Government, during their 14 years in power, completely and utterly decimated local authority funding right across the country. That was the starting point for culture and arts to be diminished—they are not statutory, so they fall away.

On the Hodge review, Arts Council England has been looking not only at how local authorities can be better supported but at how they can be better held to account for what they do on arts and culture. Hopefully, the review will come through and we can respond very soon.

The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon (Gregory Stafford), made a strange point about freedom of speech and editorial freedom. I do not think it is for the Government or the Opposition, or indeed any politician, to tell museums how they should celebrate our heritage. Many of the political issues we are dealing with today relate to the past. Some of the best museums in the world that I have visited address political issues such as slavery, and we should make sure that we maintain that approach. Actually, a lot of the stories we tell in politics today are not new—they are stories of the past—and I hope the public engage with them, and the public will determine whether they are good things to reflect.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Wera Hobhouse and Ian Murray

Committee: 8th sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 20th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

This of course brings us to the crux of the Government’s ideology, and no Government Members can ever stand up again and confidently pronounce that the Conservative party is pro-business.

The Government’s strategy and the red lines they have drawn in relation to the Bill are destroying business and are anti-business. Every sector that gives evidence to the Health Committee, the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee, the Foreign Affairs Committee or the International Trade Committee—and on and on—tells us that the only way to resolve these problems is by staying in the single market and the customs union. If such sectors—the people who create the jobs, employ the people and create the wealth in this country—are telling us that, we should listen to them, rather than to those on the extreme right wing of the Conservative party. They claim to be free traders, but they want to throw out 57 trade deals for some aspirational trade deals—no one can yet tell us whether anyone is even in the queue or wanting to speak to us about them—which is surely anti-trade and anti-business, and is destroying the fabric of the economy of this country.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Is there not a deep misunderstanding among those who say they want free trade agreements but to be outside the customs union? Creating a customs border is independent of how much we actually raise tariffs, because there will still be a border and there will still be checks. However freely or not freely we trade, creating a customs border will lead to delays, checks, regulations and so on and so forth. People say that we will have a great free trade deal, but we will still have a border, and that is what will be damaging.

[Ian Murray]

That intervention—I will finish on this point—gets to the crux of new clause 13, because we will have to have a border.

I will keep making in this House the same argument that the Minister and his colleagues in this House made when they stood on the same platform as me during the Scottish independence referendum. They consistently said that if the UK was split up and Scotland came out of the UK single market, there would have to be a border at Berwick. Why? Because there would be different arrangements for customs, regulatory matters, the free movement of people and goods.

How can Ministers now stand at the Dispatch Box with a straight face and say that none of this now applies either to Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland or indeed to Gibraltar? There is no answer to that question because, again, the Government’s red lines and their narrative do not fit with where they want to go on the final negotiations. We cannot have frictionless free trade while having differential arrangements on customs or regulatory alignment: it just does not work. If the Minister wants to intervene on me to tell me how it will work, rather than just using narrative and rhetoric—and anybody can understand how it will actually work—I would be happy to agree with him.