Housing and Planning Bill Debate

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Housing and Planning Bill

Viscount Younger of Leckie Excerpts
Monday 18th April 2016

(8 years ago)

Lords Chamber
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Moved by
78A: After Clause 90, insert the following new Clause—
“Reducing local authority influence over private registered providers
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision for the purpose of limiting or removing the ability of local authorities to exert influence over private registered providers through—(a) appointing or removing officers of private registered providers;(b) exercising or controlling voting rights.(2) The regulations may in particular—(a) limit the number of officers that a local authority may appoint;(b) prohibit a local authority from appointing officers;(c) confer power on a private registered provider to remove officers appointed by a local authority;(d) prohibit a local authority from doing things that would result in it obtaining voting rights in a private registered provider;(e) require a local authority to take steps to reduce or get rid of any voting rights that it has in a private registered provider. (3) Regulations under this section may override or modify any contractual or other rights (whenever created) or anything in a private registered provider’s constitution. (4) Regulations under this section may—(a) confer a power to amend the constitution of a private registered provider in consequence of provision made by the regulations;(b) make provision about the procedure for exercising that power.(5) In this section—“appointing”, in relation to an officer, includes nominating or otherwise influencing the selection of the officer;“constitution” includes rules;“local authority” has the meaning given by section 106 of the Housing Associations Act 1985;“officer”, in relation to a private registered provider, has the meaning given by section 270 of the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008;“private registered provider” means a private registered provider of social housing.”
Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
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My Lords, I think we are all agreed that it is imperative that housing associations have the freedom to continue to deliver our country’s much-needed homes. Classification back to the private sector provides them with the ability to access private finance to allow them to continue with their development. These amendments support this aim. Amendments 78A and 133B seek to reduce local authority control over housing associations. The amendments have one aim: to enable the removal of housing associations from the public accounts. As noble Lords will know, the Office for National Statistics took the decision to reclassify housing associations as public bodies, meaning that £64 billion was added to the national debt and the housing association sector was classified as public in the national accounts. Local authority control over housing associations was not one of the reasons why the Office for National Statistics reclassified the sector last year. However, we believe that certain governance arrangements may be seen as public sector control and could jeopardise the reclassification of housing associations.

I would briefly like to set the scene. Housing associations build around 40% of new homes each year and provide 2.7 million homes for around 5 million people, including for our most vulnerable households. Building new homes and helping people meet their aspirations for home ownership cannot be achieved without access to private finance. I shall now turn to the details of these amendments.

Amendment 78A relates to the rights of local authorities to nominate housing association board members and act as shareholders. This could allow local authorities, in a minority of housing associations, to block major constitutional changes. Such arrangements are typical in organisations which hold stock that was previously owned by the local authority. Housing associations’ constitutions and the way they are run differ between organisations. Officials in the Department for Communities and Local Government are considering these governance arrangements to assess whether they constitute public sector control. This work is continuing, with the expectation of bringing forward regulations in the autumn. It is for this reason that my noble friend the Minister is seeking secondary powers for the Secretary of State to reduce local authority control over housing associations, where it exists. The final content of these regulations will be informed by the work being undertaken by the Department for Communities and Local Government. Through Amendment 133B, such powers will be subject to the affirmative procedure, so both this House and the other place will have an opportunity to scrutinise the detail of the proposed measures.

These amendments will not impact on the core objectives of housing associations. We are making these changes to ensure that the Office for National Statistics can move housing associations back to the private sector, where they belong. It is vital that housing associations continue to develop much-needed homes and fulfil their social objectives. To do this, access to private finance is essential. If we do not act now by taking this provision, there is a risk that some housing associations will remain on the public balance sheet. I commend these amendments to the House.

Lord Shipley Portrait Lord Shipley (LD)
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My Lords, I should repeat my declaration from last week that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, because this impacts directly on local government. I welcome Amendment 133B, which confirms that we will have the affirmative procedure so that we can at least talk about the proposals that the Government finally come up with.

I want to be really clear about two things. The first is that the purpose of these amendments is, ultimately, to ensure that we build more social homes for rent than we otherwise would because of the powers of housing associations, particularly in terms of borrowing. Secondly, although local authorities will not have as much control as they do now, nevertheless, there is nothing in the legislation as now proposed that will prevent officers or members of a council joining a housing association board if invited to do so directly in their own capacity. That is my understanding of what is proposed, but I am very keen that the Minister should make it absolutely clear when responding to this group of amendments.

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Lord Kennedy of Southwark Portrait Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)
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My Lords, I can see where the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, is coming from with these amendments and I agree with virtually all the comments that have been made in this short debate. As the noble Lords, Lord True and Lord Shipley, said, it would be helpful if the Minister could confirm that councillors could be appointed to boards if the board thought that appropriate. If you are appointed to a board, no matter what your position is, your duty is to that board and to ensure that the organisation functions properly.

As the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, said, it is good if local authorities and housing associations have a good working relationship, but if as part of the scrutiny process a council wanted to engage with a local housing association, that would be welcome.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this very short debate. I particularly appreciate the support of the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, and interventions from the noble Lords, Lord Porter and Lord True. To reiterate the background to this measure, some local authorities have rights to nominate housing association board members and act as shareholders. This could allow local authorities in a minority of housing associations to block major constitutional changes. Although local authority control was not one of the reasons why the ONS reclassified the housing associations sector, there is still a risk that this will be identified as a control and delay the reclassification of housing associations.

I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, that councillors can be appointed to housing associations boards in their own right, provided that they do not speak on behalf of the local authorities. For my noble friend Lord Porter, I say that the clauses refer to nomination rights only. I hope that that reassures him that nothing broader is intended here.

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Portrait Lord Kennedy of Southwark
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Just for absolute clarity, can the Minister confirm that we are talking about nomination rights for directors and not nomination rights relating to tenants, as the noble Lord, Lord Porter, asked?

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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Indeed, that is correct.

Amendment 78A agreed.
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Moved by
78B: Clause 91, page 39, line 36, after “administration” insert “(which, for this purpose, includes housing administration under Chapter 5 of Part 4 of the Housing and Planning Act 2016)”
Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 78B to 78YW, tabled in the name of my noble friend the Minister. They amend the housing administration regime, which is intended for use in the extremely unlikely event that a large or complex housing association becomes insolvent.

Let me first reassure noble Lords that a robust regulatory framework is already in place for registered housing associations. The regulator will retain its existing powers to help a housing association in financial difficulty. Housing administration is in addition to existing powers, not a replacement. The regulator’s existing powers have meant that there has only ever been one insolvency case in the sector. However, housing associations have become more complex and have significant levels of private debt—about £65 billion in total.

The review of the near insolvency of Cosmopolitan housing association found that the regulator’s powers may not be enough if a large, complex housing association gets into financial difficulty. That is why we have brought forward legislation to introduce an administration regime for housing associations.

I have to beg your Lordships’ patience as I explain the detail of the amendments. Insolvency law is a technical and complex subject but none the less important. I assure the House that officials have been working with lenders, insolvency practitioners, valuers and housing associations on these amendments. The amendments are necessary to address issues raised by them and to clarify how the regime would work.

Amendments 78C to 78N, 78R to 78YF, 78YU and 78YW concern the two objectives of housing administration and necessary consequential amendments. The first objective is the same as a normal administration process that applies to companies. The second objective, which is expressly subordinate to the first, is to retain the social housing within the regulated sector.

We would like to retain social housing stock in the regulated sector but recognise that, if there is an insolvency, this may not always be possible. While the administrator’s primary duty is to the creditors, if this duty can be fulfilled while keeping all or some of the social housing in the regulated sector, that is what the administrator must do.

Amendment 78P introduces a new clause. Sometimes planning obligations under Section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 do not apply if a mortgagee enforces security over the land. The proposed new clause puts the housing administrator in the same position as a mortgagee in possession.

Through Amendments 78YG to 78YK, 78YM, 78YN and 78YQ to 78YT—I hope that your Lordships are still following me—the courts cannot allow the winding-up of a housing association without the regulator being notified 28 days in advance. These amendments allow the regulator of social housing to waive this 28-day notice period once they have been notified if they so choose. Waiving the notice period will allow other insolvency procedures to begin more quickly.

Amendment 78YV removes the ability to apply normal administration to a housing association that is a registered society. After consideration with the sector, we decided that this was unnecessary if housing administration was in place. There was also a risk that normal administration could follow housing administration, resulting in lenders not being able to access their security for over two years. Amendments 78YL and 78YP are consequential to Amendment 78YV.

Amendment 78Q sets a time limit of one year on housing administration and sets the parameters for applying for an extension. The appointment period and circumstances for extension are now aligned with normal administration. The Bill did not previously have a time limit. This change provides more certainty for lenders on when they would be able to enforce their security if housing administration fails to resolve the insolvency.

Finally, I am bringing forward Amendment 78B to make it clear that if social housing provided as a result of financial assistance given by the Government is sold by a housing administrator out of the regulated sector, the Homes and Communities Agency cannot recover that assistance from any successor in title. I hope that we never have to use these housing administration provisions and that the housing association sector continues to be financially robust. However, it is prudent that we are prepared for the unlikely event of a large or complex housing association becoming insolvent. I commend these amendments to the House.

Lord Beecham Portrait Lord Beecham (Lab)
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My Lords, I do not know whether other noble Lords have been watching it, but there has been a very interesting series on television of a Danish drama called “Follow the Money”, which would be an appropriate title for this group of amendments. That series had the benefit of subtitles and, with all due respect to the Minister, I must say that we could all have done with some subtitles, not necessarily on the day but in the form of a briefing note that could have helped us get our heads around this complicated and arcane topic.

I raise one issue with the noble Viscount. I understand, having been so advised by Shelter, that the Bill originally provided that in the event of insolvency of a housing association the first priority would be to maintain social housing in the sector and secure a transfer to another housing association. The amendments collectively before us make that objective secondary to the interests of the creditors. Therefore, the properties might simply be sold off rather than continue to be held within the social housing sector. Will the noble Viscount indicate whether he or the Government take that as an acceptable position? What would the potential impact be in the event of this crisis emerging with any particular association? Why was it necessary to change the original thrust of the Bill’s proposals and downgrade that priority of maintaining the social housing stock in favour of dealing with the needs of the creditors?

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Portrait Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)
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My Lords, I rise with some trepidation to speak against government Amendment 78P. I heard what the Minister said about hoping that there would be no insolvencies, but the Government appear to be expecting a number of registered providers to become insolvent during this Parliament and for the marketplace to have fewer larger housing providers. That will mean that some of the smaller ones will go to the wall.

On Amendment 78P, the land over which there is a current planning permission belonging to a registered provider that has now become insolvent would be sold on. Presumably, that would be to a developer for it to carry out the extant planning permission. However, the Section 106 planning obligations that the local authority in good faith had attached to the granting of the application, in order to serve both the existing communities around the site and the residents who would move into the proposed dwellings once the site been completed, would be waived. I fear that this is gerrymandering on a large scale and does not serve the communities within the local authority concerned at all well.

Of course, removing the planning obligations means that either the developer gets a bargain or that the housing administrator is able to get a higher price for the land. Either way, the local communities will suffer as no leisure or community facilities will be provided which were the subject of the original planning application. I fear that this is penny-pinching and shabby in the extreme.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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My Lords, I hope that I can provide some reassurance arising from a couple of questions on this short debate, particularly for the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. I will try to encapsulate both questions in the same way because the best way that we can protect social homes is by making sure that the sector is financially strong. That is the basis of what we are aiming to do. To do that, as I said earlier, we need lenders to have confidence in the sector. We have therefore made it clear that, if absolutely necessary, social housing stock can be sold out of the sector by an administrator. This has only ever happened once and is just a matter of last resort. Therefore, the objective to service creditors takes precedence over the objective to keep social homes in the regulated sector.

The amendment responds to creditors’ concern that the original drafting risks affecting loan security valuations, potentially increasing the cost of debts. This is technical rather than anything more broadly based. The key point is that we need to maintain lender confidence in the sector. I hope that that gives reassurance.

Amendment 78B agreed.
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Moved by
78C: Clause 92, page 40, line 17, leave out subsection (3)
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Moved by
78F: Clause 93, page 40, line 25, leave out subsections (1) to (8) and insert—
“(1) A housing administrator has two objectives—(a) Objective 1: normal administration (see section (Objective 1: normal administration)), and(b) Objective 2: keeping social housing in the regulated sector (see section (Objective 2: keeping social housing in the regulated sector)).(2) Objective 1 takes priority over Objective 2 (but the housing administrator must, so far as possible, work towards both objectives).(3) It follows that, in pursuing Objective 2, the housing administrator must not do anything that would result in a worse distribution to creditors than would be the case if the administrator did not need to pursue Objective 2.(4) A reference in this Chapter to the objectives of a housing administration is to the objectives to be pursued by the housing administrator.”
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Moved by
78G: After Clause 93, insert the following new Clause—
“Objective 1: normal administration
(1) Objective 1 is to— (a) rescue the registered provider as a going concern,(b) achieve a better result for the registered provider’s creditors as a whole than would be likely if the registered provider were wound up (without first being in housing administration), or(c) realise property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors.(2) The housing administrator must aim to achieve Objective 1(a) unless the housing administrator thinks—(a) that it is not reasonably practicable to achieve it, or(b) that Objective 1(b) would achieve a better result for the registered provider’s creditors as a whole.(3) The housing administrator may aim to achieve Objective 1(c) only if—(a) the housing administrator thinks that it is not reasonably practicable to achieve Objective 1(a) or (b), and(b) the housing administrator does not unnecessarily harm the interests of the registered provider’s creditors as a whole.(4) In pursuing Objective 1(a), (b) or (c) the housing administrator must act in the interests of the registered provider’s creditors as a whole so far as consistent with that Objective.”
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Moved by
78J: Clause 95, page 42, line 21, leave out “objective” and insert “objectives”
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Moved by
78L: Clause 96, page 43, line 19, leave out from beginning to “of” in line 21 and insert “The housing administrator of a registered provider must aim to achieve the objectives”
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Moved by
78P: After Clause 97, insert the following new Clause—
“Housing administrator may sell land free from planning obligations
(1) If the housing administrator of a registered provider disposes of land that is the subject of a planning obligation that contains relevant terms, the relevant terms are not binding on the person to whom the land is disposed of or any successor in title.(2) In this section—“disposes of”, in relation to land, means sells a freehold or leasehold interest in the land or grants a lease of the land;“planning obligation” means a planning obligation under section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (whether entered into before or after this section comes into force);“relevant terms” in relation to a planning obligation, means any restrictions or requirements imposed by the planning obligation that are expressed not to apply in the event that the land is disposed of by a mortgagee.”
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Moved by
78Q: Schedule 5, page 117, line 16, leave out “75,”
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Moved by
78YG: Clause 98, page 44, line 36, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—
“(a) notice of the petition has been given to the Regulator of Social Housing and a period of at least 28 days has elapsed since that notice was given, or(b) the Regulator of Social Housing has waived the notice requirement in paragraph (a).”
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Moved by
78YJ: Clause 99, page 45, line 18, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—
“(a) notice of the application has been given to the Regulator of Social Housing and a period of at least 28 days has elapsed since that notice was given, or(b) the Regulator of Social Housing has waived the notice requirement in paragraph (a).”
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Moved by
78YL: Clause 100, page 45, line 34, leave out paragraph (b)
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Moved by
78YP: Clause 101, page 46, line 24, leave out paragraph (b)
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Moved by
78YS: Clause 102, page 47, line 21, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—
“(a) notice of the intention to do so has been given to the Regulator of Social Housing and a period of at least 28 days has elapsed since the notice was given, or(b) the Regulator of Social Housing has waived the notice requirement in paragraph (a).”
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Moved by
78YU: Clause 103, page 47, line 33, leave out “objective” and insert “objectives”
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Moved by
78YV: Clause 109, leave out Clause 109
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Moved by
78YW: Clause 111, page 51, leave out lines 12 and 13 and insert—
““objectives of the housing administration” means the objectives in section 93(4);”
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Moved by
80ZA: Schedule 7, page 130, line 8, at end insert “, or
(c) if required to do so by section 158(9B) of the Localism Act 2011 (which relates to transfer requests made before section (Secure and assured tenancies: transfer of tenancy) of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 comes into force).”
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Moved by
80AA: Schedule 7, page 135, line 3, leave out from “(4)” to end of line 4
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Moved by
81ZA: After Clause 114, insert the following new Clause—
“Secure and assured tenancies: transfer of tenancy
(1) The Localism Act 2011 is amended as follows.(2) In section 158 of the Localism Act 2011 (secure and assured tenancies: transfer of tenancy)—(a) in subsection (3)(a), for “not a flexible tenancy” substitute “an old-style secure tenancy”;(b) in subsection (4)(a), for “is a flexible tenancy” substitute “is not an old-style secure tenancy”;(c) omit subsection (6);(d) in subsection (7), for “fifth” substitute “fourth”;(e) for subsections (8) and (9) substitute— “(8) The new tenancy is to be granted on whatever terms the landlord determines.(9) A landlord must, on request by a relevant tenant, inform the tenant of the terms on which a new tenancy will be granted to that tenant.(9A) Subsection (9B) applies in a case where—(a) the request was made before section (Secure and assured tenancies: transfer of tenancy) of the Housing and Planning Act 2016 came into force, and(b) one or more of the landlords had not yet complied with the request when that section came into force.(9B) In that case any new tenancy granted in pursuance of this section to a relevant tenant whose existing tenancy is an old-style secure tenancy, or an assured tenancy that is not an assured shorthold tenancy, must be—(a) an old-style secure tenancy, or(b) an assured tenancy that is not an assured shorthold tenancy,according to the landlord’s capacity to grant a tenancy of either kind.”(3) In section 159 (interpretation of section 158 etc), in subsection (6), omit paragraph (b).”
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Moved by
81ZB: Schedule 8, page 143, line 31, after “tenancy” insert “(“the old tenancy”)”
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Moved by
82: Before Clause 115, insert the following new Clause—
“Electrical safety standards for properties let by private landlords
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations impose duties on a private landlord of residential premises in England for the purposes of ensuring that electrical safety standards are met during any period when the premises are occupied under a tenancy. (2) “Electrical safety standards” means standards specified in, or determined in accordance with, the regulations in relation to—(a) the installations in the premises for the supply of electricity, or(b) electrical fixtures, fittings or appliances provided by the landlord.(3) The duties imposed on the landlord may include duties to ensure that a qualified person has checked that the electrical safety standards are met.(4) The regulations may make provision about—(a) how and when checks are carried out;(b) who is qualified to carry out checks.(5) The regulations may require the landlord—(a) to obtain a certificate from the qualified person confirming that electrical safety standards are met, and(b) to give a copy of a certificate to the tenant, or a prospective tenant, or any other person specified in the regulations.(6) In this section—“premises” includes land, buildings, moveable structures, vehicles and vessels;“private landlord” means a landlord who is not within section 80(1) of the Housing Act 1985 (the landlord condition for secure tenancies);“residential premises” means premises all or part of which comprise a dwelling;“tenancy” includes a licence to occupy (and “landlord” is to be read accordingly).”
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Moved by
92: Before Clause 115, insert the following new Clause—
“Electrical safety standards: enforcement
(1) Regulations under section (Electrical safety standards for properties let by private landlords) may provide for covenants to be implied into a tenancy.(2) Regulations under that section—(a) may make provision about the enforcement of a duty imposed by the regulations;(b) may confer functions on a local housing authority in England.(3) The provision that may be made about enforcement includes provision—(a) requiring a landlord who fails to comply with a duty imposed by the regulations to pay a financial penalty (or more than one penalty in the event of a continuing failure);(b) conferring power on a local housing authority to arrange for a person to enter on the premises, with the consent of the tenant, to remedy any failure by the landlord to comply with a duty imposed by the regulations.(4) The provision that may be made in reliance on subsection (3)(a) includes provision—(a) about the procedure to be followed in imposing penalties;(b) about the amount of penalties;(c) conferring rights of appeal against penalties; (d) for the enforcement of penalties;(e) about the application of sums paid by way of penalties (and such provision may permit or require the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund).(5) The provision that may be made in reliance on (3)(b) includes provision—(a) about procedural matters;(b) enabling a local housing authority to recover from the landlord any costs incurred by it in remedying the failure;(c) about the application of costs recovered (and such provision may permit or require the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund).(6) In this section “local housing authority” has the meaning given by section 1 of the Housing Act 1985.”
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Lord Berkeley of Knighton Portrait Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)
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My Lords, I very much take on board the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, about showmen and the storage of their equipment—and we heard that from the other side of the House, too. I would like to elaborate on one very important point. I am sure that the Government wish to diminish prejudice and friction between communities, Travellers and show people. Where there are no sites provided—and I have had some experience of that in mid-Wales—the community will tend to feel forced to go on to inappropriate bits of public land, and on to private land. It is very much more difficult for individuals and private landlords to enforce the law and control what happens. It is easier for a public authority to do so. For that reason, they must not usurp their responsibilities but must actually answer them.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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My Lords, I have found it helpful to have a further discussion on this matter, now that we are at Report. I listened carefully to the debate in Committee as well. All Members of this House are, I am sure, supportive of ensuring that the accommodation needs of Gypsy and Traveller communities are properly considered by local authorities. I have made it clear that this clause does not remove that duty. Local authorities will still consider the needs of these communities, and guidance has been provided to that effect.

I begin with the amendments, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham. I welcome the intentions of ensuring that Gypsies, Travellers and travelling show people have their needs considered, but I hope I can provide sound assurances that this clause does not remove that duty to do so. The clause makes clear that the needs of those persons who reside in or resort to the area, with respect to the provision of caravan sites and moorings for houseboats, are considered as part of the review of housing needs. This would include all those who are assessed at present and potentially those who simply choose to live in a caravan, irrespective of their cultural traditions or whether they have ever had a nomadic habit of life.

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Baroness Whitaker Portrait Baroness Whitaker
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Can the Minister say what the shortfall is in local authorities’ assessment of the housing needs of Gypsies and Travellers?

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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I will write to the noble Baroness to answer that question fully.

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Lord Porter of Spalding Portrait Lord Porter of Spalding
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Surely the noble Lord knows that that is not the case. He used to be in the department where surveys of the needs of Gypsies and Travellers are done. Surely the settled community is the one that will have less provision. We have just heard that there are 1.25 million people on the registered social housing waiting list. There will not be that many Gypsies and Travellers waiting for a pitch.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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I believe I answered the question earlier by saying that there is an obligation to look at the needs of all the population including, particularly, those of Gypsies and caravan and houseboat dwellers. If local authorities are failing in their duty fully to assess—I am sure there are very few—the law is in place for redress to take place.

I was attempting to answer a question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, who said that the equality impact assessment failed to deal with the equality impact. The decision to introduce the clause was made with due regard to the Equality Act 2010. There is a requirement for local authorities to assess the needs of everyone, including those with protected characteristics. As I said earlier, this clause does not change that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, raised the experience in Wales, where there is a legal duty to provide sites. We do not believe that this is necessary because our planning policy for Traveller sites is clear. Local planning authorities should identify and annually update a supply of sites to provide five years’ worth against locally set targets. I hope that also answers more fully the question from the noble Lord, Lord Stunell.

Finally, the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked whether the clause contravenes legal obligations on equalities. I may have addressed this through answering the question from the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, but the decision to introduce the clause was made with due regard to the matters set out in the Equality Act. I hope that, with these explanations and assurances, the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.

Lord Beecham Portrait Lord Beecham
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My Lords, I listened with interest to the noble Viscount. It seems to me that the Government are adopting a Janus-like posture, wanting to give one impression to the community affected and another to the general community. I do not find that particularly palatable. We would be sending the wrong message if we simply accepted the Government’s position, and I wish to test the opinion of the House.

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Lord Kennedy of Southwark Portrait Lord Kennedy of Southwark
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My Lords, Amendment 95B in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Beecham proposes to leave out the words “as an alternative” and add “in addition” to the list of the breaches in Schedule 9 to the Bill. Our reason for tabling this amendment is that the offences here do not justify being downgraded, and if left unamended the effect of the schedule would be just that: they would be downgraded. It would be helpful for me in deciding whether I should divide the House if the noble Viscount could explain very clearly why he believes that these offences should be downgraded and left to a fine by the local authority. I cannot see how that will benefit anyone, or that leaving the courts out of this process would be a good thing. I beg to move.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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My Lords, as I have said in earlier Committee and Report debates, the measures in Part 5 mark the Government’s commitment to tackle rogue landlords and agents as well as poor practice and standards in the private rented sector. The amendments I shall move in the next group respond to issues raised in Committee when we debated Part 2 and were debated last week, and they clarify issues that were of concern to your Lordships.

Before then, however, Amendment 95B, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Kennedy, would allow the local authority to pursue both a civil penalty and a criminal conviction for the same housing offence. The Bill as drafted provides local housing authorities with a choice on whether they want to go down the civil penalty or prosecution route depending on the seriousness of the offence and the circumstances surrounding it.

It would be disproportionate to use both regimes in relation to the same conduct. In some less serious cases, such as a first offence involving a relatively minor breach of housing legislation or when a landlord has recognised that they need to improve and have taken steps to do so, a local authority may prefer to use the civil penalty route, but for the real rogues that operate in the sector, which we have discussed at length, prosecution will still be important as that can ultimately lead to a banning order.

We will be issuing guidance for local authorities on the workings of this and the Secretary of State will of course be able to use the database of rogue landlords and agents to get a picture of how local authorities are using their powers. I hope that, with this explanation, the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Portrait Lord Kennedy of Southwark
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I thank the Minister for his response. As I said, generally the provisions in respect of the private rented sector are quite good in the Bill, with one or two exceptions; the exceptions have come with the Government’s desire to take the courts out of these processes. I have not been at all satisfied or persuaded by the comments from the Minister, so I would like to test the opinion of the House.

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Moved by
96: Schedule 9, page 148, line 12, after “satisfied” insert “, beyond reasonable doubt,”
Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie
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My Lords, I now turn to Amendments 96 and 97, which have been tabled in response to issues raised by noble Lords during the course of debate. These confirm that the local housing authority will need to apply the criminal standard of proof to any action taken against a landlord or agent. Amendment 96 addresses concerns raised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee about banning order offences, which were echoed and reinforced in Committee. Amendment 97 deals with appeals to the First-tier Tribunal against financial penalties.

A local housing authority which intends to impose a financial penalty must serve a notice of intent setting out both the reason for imposing the penalty and the amount of the penalty. The reasons must reflect that the local housing authority is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the offence complained of has been committed. The department will be issuing guidance to local housing authorities on financial penalties, including the circumstances in which a local authority should consider imposing such a penalty. I beg to move.

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Portrait Lord Kennedy of Southwark
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My Lords, we discussed these matters in Committee and, as the Minister said, they were raised by the Delegated Powers Committee as well. These are very sensible amendments and we support them.

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Moved by
97: Schedule 9, page 150, line 27, at end insert—
“( ) An appeal under this paragraph—(a) is to be a re-hearing of the local housing authority’s decision, but(b) may be determined having regard to matters of which the authority was unaware.”