Carers

Debate between Tony Baldry and Kate Green

Thursday 20th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

It is good that the House has an opportunity today to debate the needs of carers. As co-chair of the all-party carers group, I welcome this debate. It provides us with an opportunity to be the collective voice for the 6.5 million carers in the UK.

In the run-up to carers week, Carers UK published a report entitled “Prepared to Care?” which had six important recommendations from carers about what they need to help them manage their caring role. They need better public understanding and recognition of carers. Carers should have access to information and the right support from the beginning. It is important to remember that every day 6,000 people take on new caring responsibilities in the UK, and from day one they need access to the right support, advice and information. Every day across the country there are people whose loved ones have a stroke or discover that they have been diagnosed with Parkinson’s or with age-related dementia, and they need support from day one.

Professionals need to understand the role of carers and share information, decision making and planning with them. The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) made the point about the GP who treated a patient for years but never asked about the carer. Carers can no longer be treated as invisible. They need access to high-quality practical and emotional support and information, as well as breaks from caring. The point made by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe) about respite care is crucial. When Carers Oxfordshire surveyed carers in Oxfordshire last week about the issue that caused them greatest concern, not surprisingly access to respite care came very near the top of the list. Carers need flexible working practices, understanding from employers, financial support, and a fair and easy-to-navigate welfare system.

A growing recognition of the number of carers in the country is evidenced by the fact that each year carers week gathers further and greater momentum. Carers week took place between 10 and 16 June. Alongside Carers UK seven other national charity partners—Age UK, Carers Trust, Independent Age, Macmillan Cancer Support, Marie Curie Cancer Care, the MS Society and Parkinson’s UK—came together to celebrate the contribution that carers make and to signpost them to the advice, information and support that they need.

This year’s carers week was the largest ever, with more than 2,600 groups registering to take part and more than 10,000 events up and down the country—that is a lot of events. Those organising events included carers’ groups, service providers, local authorities, hospitals, domiciliary care services, hospices and GP services. Events in Oxfordshire included Carers Oxfordshire—the umbrella group for carers in the county—running outreach events and advice stalls at local Sainsbury’s, Asda and Waitrose stores. Last Friday, I visited an Oxfordshire branch of Sainsbury’s and lots of people came up and asked questions, which was fantastic, because people do not always recognise that they are carers. Outreach events to identify carers also took place in GP surgeries and town and church halls across the county.

In Parliament, there was a “Question Time” event in Portcullis House with the Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb), who is responsible for care and support. The event brought together the Association of Directors of Adult Social Care, Skills for Care, the Royal College of General Practitioners and Public Health England, alongside the campaign’s charity partners and carers, to debate how the NHS and social care can better support carers. Key issues discussed included the challenge of identifying and supporting carers when many people do not recognise themselves as carers, and how to ensure that carers are represented in the new NHS structures nationally and locally. Like all those taking part in today’s debate, I am sure, I was pleased when more than 100 parliamentary colleagues attended a parliamentary photocall in support of carers week. As the previous speaker mentioned, there was a useful speed networking event that enabled MPs to meet carers and hear their stories directly.

Interestingly and usefully, this year’s carers week saw increased engagement and involvement of employers in the campaign, which is important because, as Carers UK polling earlier this year showed, 2.3 million people have given up work at some point to care for loved ones, and census data published in May show that more than 3 million people are juggling work and care. That is a huge number of people, so getting employers involved in understanding the needs of carers is very important. I am glad to say that Sainsbury’s has continued its sponsorship of the employers for carers campaign, with nearly all its 1,200 stores running events, linking up with local groups and organisations to raise awareness of the support on offer to carers. Crucially, Sainsbury’s delivered information and advice not only to its customers but to staff with caring responsibilities.

I am also glad to say that Government Departments, such as the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, held carers week sessions for their staff, as did a number of private organisations, as the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) mentioned. Those included the Michelin Tyre Company, KPMG, HSBC, British Gas, Northamptonshire police, the UK Border Agency, BT plc, Credit Suisse, Transport for London, the Financial Ombudsman Service and the London fire brigade. There is growing recognition from employers in the private and public sectors that they have a duty of care to those of their employees who are carers. In Oxfordshire, Employers for Carers, in partnership with Oxfordshire county council and Carers UK, launched a new membership hub for local employers large and small, which will give local employers the opportunity to share good practice in supporting carers to juggle work and caring and to raise awareness of the business benefits of keeping carers in the work force.

[Kate Green]

It is encouraging to hear that list of the many employers who want to support the carers in their work force, and I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman says about spreading good practice among employers. Does he agree that the large employers have a particular role to play in working with their supply chains to spread good practice?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

That is an extremely good point. These things are organic. A few years ago big employers such as Sainsbury’s would not necessarily have been involved in that way. Having been involved in carers policy over the years, what I find encouraging is that each year a further step is achieved.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Debate between Tony Baldry and Kate Green

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

For my own information really, can the hon. Lady say how much consultation she has had with the Church of England, the Roman Catholic Church and other Churches on this amendment and its possible implications?

[Kate Green]

I think that it is fair to say that the Churches are not displaying tremendous enthusiasm for this proposal. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that it is not easy for the official Opposition to carry out extensive consultations, but the issue was raised in Committee, when we took evidence from some of the Churches, and I detected no great appetite or enthusiasm from them for further discussion of this kind of proposal.

Of course, we would like the Government to adopt this proposal and take it forward wholeheartedly and in a way that delivers a robust and settled legal right to humanist weddings. In the absence of that, we simply need to take the evidence of the number of people who are coming forward asking for a humanist ceremony, the number of humanist ceremonies that are taking place and the very high popularity they enjoy both among those who participate in them and those who attend them.

Let me read the remarks of one couple:

“A humanist wedding offered us the chance to make the wedding ‘ours’, it enabled us to construct our own vows and create a ceremony that felt immediately very personal to both us and our guests, it also portrayed exactly what marriage meant to us and how we see our marriage growing in the future.”

We should be celebrating that in the context of this Bill, and I greatly regret that a sense of celebration is being lost as a result of the way that this afternoon’s debate is proceeding.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kate Green]

I will not, as I am just coming to a conclusion.

If during this afternoon’s debate the Government can provide undertakings that they will put before us that full, reasoned legal opinion and give us the time properly to test and explore it, so that the concerns can be taken forward appropriately when the Bill reaches the House of Lords, we will of course be happy to take that time to ensure that the legislation is wholly fit for purpose. Without those detailed explanations, it is difficult for us to accept that there is some endemic objection in principle to introducing humanist marriage into English law, and that I is why I have tabled new clause 15.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Let me start by saying that I have great admiration for humanists. My mother was a Quaker and I was brought up and educated at a Quaker school. I often think that Quakers are simply humanists who believe in God—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is going to heckle throughout my speech, he will just indicate the discourtesy he shows for the views of anyone who disagrees with him. If we heard a little less from him, we would all do a lot better.

As the House will know, when the Bill was introduced the Church of England and other faith groups did not greet it with unalloyed joy. However, we sought to engage constructively with Ministers and officials and they constructively engaged with us. Ministers and the Government made it clear at the outset that they wanted to ensure that faith groups that did not wish to perform same-sex marriages would not be obliged to do so. The legislation therefore has at its heart protections for faith groups such as the Church of England, the Roman Catholic Church, Muslims and others who do not wish to perform or celebrate same-sex marriages. That is enshrined in the quadruple lock for the Church of England, because of canon law, and in the other locks for other faith groups. Those locks are essential to ensuring the freedoms that the Government made clear at the outset would be there to protect faith groups.

[Kate Green]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

Of course I will give way to the hon. Lady, but may I finish the point?

Those locks are based on the assumption enshrined in English marriage law: English marriage law is based on buildings and not on celebrants.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I am going to give way to the hon. Lady, but let me finish the point because it is important.

In Scotland, there is celebrant-based marriage, whereas the protections in marriage in England are based on buildings. If new clause 15 is passed, it will in effect unpick all the protections in the Bill that relate to the locks and to the protections for other faith groups.

The Speaker acknowledged earlier that he was an anorak. There are degrees of anorakism in the House, and I too am a bit of an anorak, in the sense that I believe that if public Bills that will make substantial changes to public law are to be introduced, there should be proper consultation. As the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) honestly and properly acknowledged, there has been no consultation with faith groups on the proposed provisions, which would completely unpick the protections in the Bill that Parliament has sought to give to faith groups.

[Kate Green]

I do not see why faith groups should be singled out for consultation. If there is to be consultation, it should include those of no faith, and other organisations too. I do not understand at all how this proposition unpicks locks which are intended to protect religious institutions and individual celebrants within those institutions. I simply do not understand that, and I do not accept that marriage under English law is confined to religious institutions that have premises. As I say, English law also provides for Jews and Quakers to conduct marriages according to their own rites.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Tony Baldry]

My hon. Friend is wrong. I have made it quite clear throughout that English marriage law is buildings-related, except, for historic reasons, where it relates to Quakers and Jews; it has never been celebrant-related.

Let us consider the Scottish example. In Scotland we have seen pagan weddings celebrated, spiritualist weddings celebrated, and weddings celebrated by the White Eagle Lodge. That is a question on which our constituents should properly be consulted. I cannot speak for other Members of the House, but I have had enough problems in my constituency with same-sex marriage. If I go back to the shires of Oxfordshire and tell constituents that Parliament is about to endorse pagan marriage in England, they will think that we have lost the plot completely. If they think that the Opposition support pagan marriage and masonic marriage, they really will think we have lost the plot.

[Kate Green]

The new clause would not allow pagan marriage to take place. It would allow humanist marriage to take place, and the Bishop of Chester supports it.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

The hon. Lady is a lawyer so, with the greatest respect, she has no excuse for not listening to the advice of the Attorney-General. He made it clear to the House—any hon. Member would follow the logic very straightforwardly—that it would not be possible in the Bill to give privileges to one non-faith organisation, the humanists, without its being challenged by other similar non-faith groups, such as the pagans or the secularists, who have had weddings celebrated in Scotland. Pagans would say, “We are allowed to have marriages north of Hadrian’s wall. Why cannot we have marriages south of Hadrian’s wall?”

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tony Baldry and Kate Green

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tony Baldry]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. The thieves, in that case, simply wanted the lightning conductor, but in trying to get it they almost destroyed the whole church, because they pulled the steeple down into the church. One of the penalties for churches that have their lead stripped is that the insurers thereafter will refuse to insure them, so all the burden falls on local communities and parishes. This is an epidemic that we need to grasp and solve. It simply cannot continue.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

In my constituency, St Brides church in Old Trafford suffered the theft of its church bell. One of the reasons we are particularly vulnerable to such offences is the presence of a large scrap metal yard in the constituency. Will the hon. Gentleman join me in putting pressure on the Home Office not just to amend the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964, but to ensure that the police are adequately resourced to deal with these increasing levels of crime?

[Tony Baldry]

I am glad to say to the hon. Lady that I think that police forces up and down the country are now taking this issue seriously, not just because of the theft of lead from churches, but because of the theft of copper from railway signalling devices. The theft of metals has now gone significantly up the agenda of police forces across the country.