Hormone Pregnancy Tests

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Thursday 7th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting this important debate and, as others have done, pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) for her tireless work on this issue. She not only secured today’s debate, but has been a powerful voice in this campaign for many years. I also wish to put on record my thanks to Marie and all the other campaigners.

The right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey), who is no longer in her place, rightly said that debates such as this show Parliament at its best. I commend the contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle), for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), and for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood). I also commend the speeches and contributions from the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), who did some good work in this area as Prime Minister and carries on campaigning for justice, the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Suzanne Webb), the right hon. Members for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), for Tatton, and for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Allan Dorans), who is also not in his place, the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg), the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Leigh (James Grundy), for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson), for Southend West (Anna Firth), the right hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) and, last but not least, the hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell), who leads for the SNP. Parliament has spoken with one voice and Parliament has spoken incredibly strongly. We know, as we have heard today, that it has taken decades for those affected by the hormone-based pregnancy test Primodos to be heard let alone be given justice.

Around 1.5 million women in Britain took Primodos in the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s before it was finally withdrawn in the late 1970s. Since then, countless women have come forward to tell their stories, alleging impacts on their children ranging from congenital malformations, birth defects to miscarriage and stillbirth. The voices of these women and their families were not heard for decades.

The Cumberlege report, published in 2020 after being commissioned by the then Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead, and the Secretary of State for Health, was a watershed moment in this decades-long struggle. It investigated not only Primodos and other hormone pregnancy tests, but sodium valproate and pelvic mesh.

What the Cumberlege report found was damning. It concluded that Primodos caused “avoidable harm” and that the handling of this issue spoke to an institutional failure to take the voices of women seriously. The report made several recommendations relating to Primodos, including but not limited to: a full apology to those affected by Primodos, a patient safety commissioner, a redress agency for those harmed and a taskforce to implement these wide-ranging recommendations.

It is important to welcome the apology that the then Secretary of State for Health and Social Care made in 2020 following the publication of the Cumberlege review. But, as has been made clear today, this apology was supposed to be the beginning. I am concerned that the Government have so far fully completed only two of the nine recommendations in the Cumberlege review. Four are classed as ongoing and three have been outright rejected.

That glacial progress is just not acceptable, so I will press the Minister on some key points that stood out to me in the Government’s implementation update report of last December, and other developments since. First, in relation to the recommendation for specialist centres for those adversely affected by medications taken during pregnancy, the Department of Health and Social Care has reiterated its view that specialist centres are

“not the most effective way forward.”

Instead, the Government point to NHS England committing to improve care pathways for the children and families affected. The Government’s report states:

“The Teratogen Clinical Development Group has recommended a proposal for regional multidisciplinary and interdisciplinary ‘hub and spoke’ services to sit within specialised neurodisability teams”.

Those services would support the treatment of children and young people exposed to harmful substances such as Primodos. However, the update report simply states that NHSE

“will explore this recommendation further”.

Can the Minister update the House on where that work has got to?

Secondly, as has been highlighted today, there are concerns about the Government’s approach to this issue. There has been a refusal to discuss the redress scheme, in contradiction to the Cumberlege review. There have been reports of refusals to meet with campaigners and parliamentarians, and news of lawyers representing the Government backing efforts to strike out legal action. The list goes on and is becoming more and more concerning. Given the High Court ruling in May, which I know many campaigners were exceptionally disappointed by, what steps are the Government taking to better engage with parliamentarians and campaigners on this issue, and do they have any plans to reconsider their position on redress and implementation?

[Theresa Villiers]

I am really interested to know what Labour would do if it won the next general election. Would it set up a fund for financial redress?

[Andrew Gwynne]

There seems to be a bit of a trend for the current Government, and Ministers supporting the current Government, to be looking to Labour to fix some of these problems. We will look very seriously at these issues and the situation that we inherit after the next general election, but I want today’s Minister and her Government to do what they need to do now, not wait until the next general election, which could be 12 months or more away. We need justice and redress now.

This is not a party political issue; it is an issue for each and every one of us in this House—those who have contributed to today’s debate, and the many Members who have not. On both sides of the House, we have to ensure that this historic scandal is comprehensively addressed, and the sooner the better for the victims and families. I sincerely hope that in her response the Minister will agree with all that has been said today, and that we can secure some very long overdue justice for these women and their families.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Wednesday 24th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I will first offer my condolences, and those of my colleagues in the Government, in relation to the tragedy that occurred in Berkeley which took the lives of five Irish students. The pain of that loss is felt across the UK and Ireland.

The Government are making progress on their obligations under the Stormont House agreement. We have legislated for corporation tax devolution and we expect to introduce a Bill soon on new structures on the past. I urge the Northern Ireland political parties to deliver on their side of the agreement, including welfare reform and passing a sustainable budget.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I would like to associate myself with the Secretary of State’s comments.

Many young people in Northern Ireland have been given the opportunity to build a shared and integrated future through educational programmes for which there are substantial resources under the Stormont House agreement. Now that a waiting game is being played as the parties in Stormont must agree on other matters, will the Secretary of State update the House on the status of those initiatives?

[Mrs Villiers]

An important part of the financial package offered by the UK Government under the Stormont House agreement includes £500 million to support shared and integrated education as a crucial means of building reconciliation in Northern Ireland. The financial package is of course contingent on the Stormont House agreement being implemented. The UK Government think this is one of the main reasons why we need to press ahead with the welfare provisions and the sustainable budget. It would be a huge setback for Northern Ireland to lose the rest of the Stormont House agreement, including the valuable funding for shared and integrated education.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I urge anyone who is planning any form of commemoration to consider the impacts of their decisions and choices on people from all sides of the community. I certainly have concerns about the sort of commemoration to which the hon. Gentleman referred. As well as addressing matters relating to the past, it is important for both the Executive and the UK Government to focus strongly on sustaining the recovery in Northern Ireland’s economy. It is going well—unemployment is falling—but there is, of course, more to do to tackle youth unemployment. This Government will continue to do so through their long-term economic plan.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

5. What recent assessment she has made of the effect of the non-implementation of welfare reform on the Northern Ireland Executive’s budget.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The failure of the Executive to implement welfare reform means that Northern Ireland is retaining a system that too often fails the people it is supposed to help by trapping them in dependency and discouraging work. This failure also means that financial savings are being forgone and other areas of public spending in Northern Ireland are being cut as a result—for example, the budget for policing and justice.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I think I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that garbled answer. Will she confirm that she is in agreement with all the Northern Ireland parties that the bedroom tax is a pernicious policy? Given that, will she tell us what proportion of the overall budget cuts proposed for Northern Ireland are directly related to the non-implementation of welfare reform?

[Mrs Villiers]

I believe that of the £87 million of savings forgone for this year, around £16 million relates to the spare room subsidy, which is all about fairness to ensure that the rules for the social sector are the same as those for the private rented sector. I do not think that is an unreasonable position. The reality is that our welfare reforms are about encouraging people into work, reforming the system to ensure that work always pays and ending the perversities and arbitrary cliff edges that saw people trapped on benefits under the old system, which Labour manifestly failed to reform.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Wednesday 6th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

8. What her policy is on youth unemployment in Northern Ireland; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The Government’s efforts to reduce the largest deficit in UK peacetime history and deliver sustainable economic recovery are an important way of dealing with youth unemployment. Further specific measures to help young people in Northern Ireland to find jobs are the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive, with whom we are happy to work closely.

[Mrs Villiers]

I will take no lectures from Labour on youth unemployment. Youth unemployment rose by a third—by 35%—under Labour in Northern Ireland, youth employment fell by nearly 10%, and economic activity among young people fell by 3%. We are determined to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy. Our deficit reduction plan is keeping interest rates low, which is vital for job creation and investment, and corporation tax is being reduced. We have also recognised the special circumstances of Northern Ireland by providing, on average, a higher block grant per head than is provided anywhere else in the United Kingdom.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Since it was established by the British and Irish Governments, the International Fund for Ireland has played an important role in facilitating and encouraging investment in projects that support communities, businesses and young people. What future role does the Secretary of State envisage for the IFI, and how can it help the Governments and the Northern Ireland Executive to tackle the scourge of youth unemployment in Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

I join the hon. Gentleman in paying tribute to the IFI. It has done tremendous work in the past, and continues to do that work. I shall be happy to meet IFI representatives to discuss how we can work together more closely to address youth unemployment issues. I am sure that they will engage with Northern Ireland politicians who will travel to the United States for the St Patrick’s day commemorations in a week or so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Thursday 28th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

T9. Following last week’s publication of the east coast franchise, does the Minister think passengers on the east coast should expect an eye-watering 8% above inflation fare increase, which my constituents travelling on the west coast main line will face in years ahead?

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

This Government are determined to get the cost of running the railways down. That is the way we deal with the concerns that passengers have about fares. If the Opposition think concerns about fares started in May 2010, they are living on another planet. We need reform to get the costs down so that we can respond to passengers, and it is time Labour started producing its own reform plans if it insists on rejecting ours.

Rail Fares

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Maria Eagle]

I will give way to the Minister, who I expect will be winding up the debate, and then to my hon. Friend.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

The industry needs to do a lot better on its ticket machines and to ensure that passengers are properly informed about the ticket choices available. We will continue to challenge the industry to do that through our fares review and the White Paper on the future of the rail industry which we intend to publish in November.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Given the Government’s decision to increase rail fares by 3% above inflation for each of the next three years, many commuters will have to spend a fifth of their household income—more than their mortgage or rent—just to get to work. Incidentally, that would be equivalent to the Minister of State having to pay almost £20,000 a year. Instead of asking commuters to plug the hole caused by the transport budget being cut too far and too fast, will she think again?

[Mrs Villiers]

We faced the largest peacetime deficit that we have ever faced. To continue with the biggest programme of rail upgrades in modern history, we unfortunately must ask passengers to make a contribution. The blame lies fairly and squarely with the previous Government for leaving us with a deficit and letting the cost of the railways spiral out of control.

Railway Expansion

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) on securing the debate, which has been excellent. Clearly, it raises important matters about smaller rail schemes and how, in many instances, they could benefit local areas by increasing economic prosperity and improving access to the rail network for local communities. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that smaller rail schemes clearly should be considered as we consider how best to deal with expansion on our railway network.

We need to consider all ways of making our railways work in the most economically efficient way. Given that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) rightly said, there will be serious capacity issues all over the rail network in the years to come, we need to think about the best ways of expanding the railways for the best value for money, which clearly involves looking at the types of scheme that have been discussed today.

With more and more people wanting to travel by rail, continued investment in increasing rail capacity and expanding the network are vital. With passenger growth expected to increase by up to 50% by 2020, and rail freight expected to grow by 30% during the next decade, substantial changes to the rail network will be needed.

Clearly there has been a great deal of debate in the House and media coverage about larger rail expansion projects such as Crossrail and Thameslink, the electrification schemes in Wales and the north-west, and the ongoing discussions about high-speed rail. Those projects will clearly attract the lion’s share of transport funding in the future. However, growing demand on the rail network can sometimes be satisfied, as we have heard today, by smaller enhancements, such as lengthening platforms to allow for longer trains or doubling single tracks. The former approach has been taken on some London commuter routes, and the latter is appropriate in rural areas that have become bottlenecks.

Of course, local rail expansion has been made more difficult—particularly given the expectation that these schemes and their business cases will be primarily led by local authorities, integrated transport authorities where they exist, local enterprise partnerships where they exist, and so on—following the comprehensive spending review, which left a 28% cut in local government transport spending. That has implications for the immediate future. Sometimes smaller rail projects will not be the best solution all over the rail network. As we see on an increasing number of routes, peak trains are already at maximum length and no further trains can realistically be added.

I welcome the campaigning work of the hon. Member for Southport and particularly the work that he has done to make the case for the Burscough curve, which will help to revive the disused electric track between Ormskirk and Burscough, thus bringing links to Southport. He must have found it a bit disheartening that the present Government in effect slapped a four-year ban on funding such projects, as he discussed in his speech. However, he is to be congratulated on showing the determination to find alternative sources of funding for the scheme, which will certainly benefit his constituents. I wish him well with that.

As many of us in the room are north-west MPs—the exceptions are the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames), the Minister and her parliamentary private secretary, the hon. Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke)—I agree with the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) that people could mistakenly think that this is a north-west conspiracy. However, he knows that there is a great deal of rail congestion in the whole of our region, and many commentators have said that smaller schemes, many of which make up elements of what is called the northern hub, are key components in improving rail services across the north of England.

One ambition of the northern hub project is to increase train services in the north by 40% during the next 20 years, including for cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield. That would mean 700 more trains a day, which would make it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to travel by train each year. The estimated wider economic impact of the project is significant as it involves the creation of 23,000 jobs and a return of £4 for every £1 that is spent.

Although I welcome the recent announcement on the Ordsall curve, it has been frustrating for those of us who believe in the northern hub project that the Government have not yet made a firm commitment about when work on that worthwhile and economically beneficial project will begin. That would be a good starting point. I hope that any approval will not be piecemeal, however, because we need to take the northern hub project as a whole. I welcome the fact that the Ordsall curve will link Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria stations by the end of 2016, but that is only one aspect of the northern hub scheme. There is no Government commitment to the entire programme, so I ask the Minister to give a firm commitment that the project will be included in the next Network Rail control period.

Labour clearly remains committed to dealing with overcrowding and capacity problems on the network, and to considering how best to use further rail expansion to do so in the most cost-effective way. However, rail expansion and investment decisions can have a real impact on regional growth, and may help to perpetuate a cycle of increasing disparity of wealth between regions. Such decisions will be all the more important in the light of the abolition of the regional development agencies.

Smaller rail schemes obviously have beneficial effects in all areas of the country. In a previous debate, I played a parliamentary version of rail Top Trumps with the hon. Member for Chippenham over who had the worst rail service in the country—I think that I won with my example of one train a week in one direction only. However, the hon. Gentleman made a powerful case for extra investment in his constituency. I was disappointed that the Government sneaked out their decision to end all funding for local rail schemes developed by local authorities and integrated transport authorities on the same day that they announced the public consultation on High Speed 2.

[Mrs Villiers]

Does the hon. Gentleman know of any local authorities or local promoters that complained about that announcement? The fact is that none of those schemes is ready to kick off before April 2012, so they will still be subject to the same three-year consideration for national funding as under the system that we inherited from the Labour Government.

[Andrew Gwynne]

If that was the case, putting a block on the schemes was a pointless exercise.

The Government’s decision means that no central funding will be available for new schemes until April 2015, which will obviously affect schemes such as that in the constituency of the hon. Member for Southport. Why was that decision not included in the announcement about the comprehensive spending review? Such an important decision should have been announced on its own, rather than being overshadowed by an announcement on the same day about the public consultation on high-speed rail. That is a blow to further passenger choice and to economic regeneration.

The Eddington review outlined the significant returns that can result from smaller projects that unblock pinch points, saying that variable infrastructure schemes to support public transport in urban areas are likely to offer the highest returns. A recent report by the Transport Committee clearly identified the way in which the south, and particularly London, has benefited from rail investment, which was a point made eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton and others. The report also noted that transport investment per head in London and the south-east was three times as much as in other regions of the country. I do not wish to be misrepresented, so I point out that Labour certainly supports investment in London and the south-east, but similar interest should be shown in the needs of the rest of the country, and my hon. Friend made a valid and powerful point in that respect. Some smaller rail projects might be a way to redress the balance, but we will have to wait to see what is included in the next Network Rail control period.

I wonder whether there is a greater role for tram-train, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood. Such services could vastly improve local passenger services—and the passenger experience—by utilising existing infrastructure. It will be interesting to see the success or otherwise of the south Yorkshire trial and to note whether that can be adopted elsewhere.

Hon. Members will know that Labour is undertaking a fundamental review of all its policies, exactly as the Conservatives did when the Prime Minister became leader of his party. We are looking at all areas of policy, and I must tell my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton that that includes the question of High Speed 2. I urge him to take part in that because his serious points about capacity on the west coast main line and regional economic disparities should be fed into the process. Whatever the outcome of the policy review, the party will remain committed to assisting the Government to secure the legal powers for High Speed 2 in the hybrid Bill. Like my hon. Friend, I urge the Government to do so for the whole of the Y-shape network, not only the route from London to Birmingham.

Local rail schemes can make an important contribution to solving transport challenges. Many of the points raised today will help to inform the debate. However, as we heard from a number of hon. Members, many local rail projects may be suspended until funding is identified. What the hon. Member for Southport said about building a viable business case was extremely valid, and it is difficult to pursue the process through a vast array of bureaucracy. How will the Government cut through that maze of bureaucracy to bring forward schemes promoted by local partnerships, as described by the hon. Gentleman?

Will the McNulty review make suggestions, and if so what is the Government’s view? What further advice does the Minister have for local authorities to get funding for their projects? Will she make a statement about smaller rail schemes such as the Todmorden curve? What work has the Department done to examine the benefits of reopening other disused rail lines? What will happen to the schemes that were in line for funding before the Government’s announcement earlier this year? The Southport scheme and others represent a small proportion of the schemes on our rail network, and we hope that those and many others will be given due consideration by the Government for the next control period.

Rail Investment

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Thursday 17th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am pleased to contribute to this important debate. I congratulate the Transport Committee on its report and my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) on securing this debate. I am pleased to have had the opportunity to listen to the views and concerns of right hon. and hon. Members. There has been good, thoughtful and powerful debate from all parts of the Chamber. The Select Committee report posed a number of questions about the future of the rail industry that are relevant to our deliberations today. The report might be a year old, but it is very much a case of back to the future. Many of the challenges outlined in the report are still to be answered satisfactorily or properly addressed by the Government.

The report looked at a wide range of issues facing the rail industry. There are perhaps too many to cover adequately in the time that we have left. A key issue is how we deal with severe overcrowding on services and how we realign rail investment more equally across the whole country. The report considered ways in which we could increase electrification on the network and examined rail investments that could be shared with all parts of the country.

As you are no doubt aware, Mr Owen, Labour is currently undertaking a policy review. As part of that, the transport team is looking at the ways in which we can deliver improvements in our railways. With nothing ruled in or out at this stage and with all ideas on the table for further discussion and examination, these ongoing discussions will form the basis of Labour party policy on transport for the next general election. A number of the ideas that have been raised today will be considered seriously.

[Mrs Villiers]

Does the hon. Gentleman’s party still support high-speed rail or not?

[Andrew Gwynne]

The Minister pre-empts what I will come to later in my contribution, but we are in favour of faster trains and better connectivity, and high-speed rail will certainly form part of our policy review.

Returning to the Transport Committee’s report, there are a few issues that it addressed that I would like to revisit briefly. As the report clearly identified, it is likely that there will be serious capacity issues all over the rail network in the years to come, and the Labour party remains committed to addressing both overcrowding and capacity issues on the network. However, where a Government makes future investment in the rail network is clearly important and tough decisions have to be made about the future priorities of the network.

As the report also clearly identified, investment decisions will have a huge impact on regional growth, and those decisions can help to perpetuate a vicious cycle of increasing disparity of wealth between regions. They will be all the more important in light of the abolition of the regional development agencies, which was referred to by both my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside and the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). I myself represent a constituency in the north-west of England, so it is frustrating for me to see how rail congestion is having a real economic impact in areas such as Manchester and in the wider north-west, with knock-on effects on jobs and prosperity for my constituents and others.

The report rightly identified the northern hub as the key to improving rail services across the north of England. As we have already heard, it is an ambition of the northern hub project to increase train services in the north, including to cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, by 40% during the next 20 years. That means 700 more trains a day, making it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to travel by train every year. The estimated wider economic impact of the project is also significant, with the creation of 23,000 new jobs and a return of £4 for every £1 that is spent. Of course, it has been frustrating for the northern hub project that there are no firm commitments about when work on that worthwhile and economically beneficial project will start. I want to take this opportunity to ask the Minister if she envisages that the project will be in the next Network Rail control period.

The report also examined the benefits of electrification, both for the environment and for improving the efficiency of our rail network. As we know, a number of regional schemes were announced by the previous Labour Government, and many of them were reconfirmed by the current Government through the comprehensive spending review. As yet, we are still awaiting a final decision on whether or not the Great Western main line electrification will extend all the way to Wales. People in Wales will feel pretty upset if that decision is delayed unduly, especially when the Conservative party manifesto itself said:

“We support…the electrification of the Great Western line to South Wales.”

I am not sure whether there were any Welsh MPs in the room during the coalition negotiations, because that commitment was subsequently downgraded to a general statement of support for

“further electrification of the rail network.”

It is crucial that the economic benefits of electrification extend to south Wales, and by that I mean that electrification should extend not only to Cardiff but Swansea.

Similarly, we wait with bated breath to see whether the newly electrified lines in the north-west, when they are eventually upgraded, will actually have electrified trains running on them from day one. Rightly there is a concern that, with delays to Thameslink, the carriage cascade to the north-west will be delayed. After all the internal investment to electrify the north-west part of the network, it would be a travesty if the old, overcrowded and slower diesel units continue to be used on the newly electrified lines.

I would warmly welcome any updates on these issues that the Minister can give us today. Can she let me know when there will be a decision on electrification to Wales? Likewise, can she outline the time scales that are in place for the replacement of Thameslink rolling stock and for cascading trains to the Great Western main line and the north-west?

The Transport Committee report also identified the importance of having new rolling stock on the network. Clearly, the delaying and reprofiling of some major schemes that had been announced by Labour is disappointing, especially as train fares were hiked up last month, but new carriages remain some years away for some commuters.

It is a similar story regarding the delivery of replacement stock for the outdated inter-city fleet. Clearly, the Government have delayed their decision on the inter-city express programme, with all the knock-on effects for cascading rolling stock. It is time that the Government ended the delays and allowed that project to proceed.

[Mrs Villiers]

I will not take any lectures from the hon. Gentleman—a Labour MP—about the IEP, given that his Government made little progress on it and spent £26 million on merely trying to procure the new trains.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I would welcome an update from the Minister about where that infrastructure project has got to and when we can expect to see new inter-city trains.

After rail fares increased last month by RPI plus 1%, as we have already heard, it is disappointing for commuters that the Secretary of State keeps claiming that fare increases across the CSR period will be only 10%. Is not the truth that RPI plus 3% will deliver a cumulative increase of more than 30% on the inflation forecasts by the Office for Budget Responsibility?

The Minister’s Department confirmed to me—it seems that it has also confirmed this to my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) in an answer to a written question—that it expects the effect of those rises to be rail passengers opting for other forms of transport. There is a concern, which the Minister used to share, that higher fares will price people off trains. That concern exists despite what the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) has said. In turn, pricing people off trains will reduce people’s access to work and force them back on to the roads, generating more congestion, increasing carbon emissions and setting back our goal of achieving a sustainable transport system.

Briefly, I want to talk about high-speed rail, which was also mentioned in the Transport Committee’s report. As I have said in response to an intervention by the Minister, the Labour transport review will look at all areas of policy in detail, including high-speed rail. Clearly it is right that we should look in detail at the best way of delivering faster journey times between our core cities while increasing capacity.

The connectivity gains of high-speed rail arise not only from faster trains but from the new route alignments that comprise the proposed Y-shaped network of lines from London to Birmingham and—eventually—north to Manchester, Leeds and beyond. However, I have a real concern about the Government’s commitment to taking the planned high-speed line to the north. They have decided not to use the forthcoming high-speed legislation to secure the legal powers that would be needed to take the line beyond Birmingham, as Labour had planned to do. We will support the Government in taking the line beyond Birmingham, if that is what they choose to do. Perhaps the Minister can provide us with assurances that the Government will look again at seeking powers to extend the route beyond Birmingham.

It is also worth briefly mentioning freight on the rail network, which was an issue referred to both in the Transport Committee’s report and by my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins). Freight operations play a big part in the economy, and we should look at ways of ensuring that freight capacity can continue to play a role in the rail network. Will the Minister outline how she sees rail freight being prioritised, especially with an eye on possible structural changes to Network Rail in the coming years? Indeed, is rail freight still a Government priority?

That brings me on to the McNulty review on value for money, which will have a real bearing on the future functioning of the rail network. I welcome that review of the rail industry, which was started by Labour when we were in government. When Sir Roy McNulty publishes his final report in April, we will consider any sensible proposals that would take costs out of the industry without reducing the quality of services for passengers. Does the Minister agree that, as the cost to the Government of running the railways comes down, the cost to the public of travelling by train should come down as well? Such a reduction would go some way towards helping hard-pressed commuters up and down the country, who are facing record fare rises of more than 30% in the next few years. The initial findings of the McNulty review have suggested that savings of £1 billion can be found without cutting services. Will the Minister now commit to sharing the benefits of those savings with passengers and to rethinking some of the fare rises that are due in future years?

In conclusion, as the Transport Committee report shows, the Government need a long-term vision for rail, and we need to deliver projects to build on our ambition to have a world-class rail service in this country. Where we agree with the Government, we will support them. The previous Labour Government left the rail network in a far better condition than the one in which we found it. Rail passenger numbers increased by 40% during the last decade, punctuality and quality of service also improved steadily in that time and consumer satisfaction with services increased. However, I recognise that there is still a huge amount to do, and this Transport Committee report is a good starting point for that future work.

Railway Industry

Debate between Theresa Villiers and Andrew Gwynne

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am pleased to contribute to this important debate about the future of the rail industry, particularly as this is my first official outing as a member of the Opposition Front-Bench transport team. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) on securing the debate today.

In recent years, a welcome consensus has developed around the importance of support for the railways, both the conventional and high-speed varieties. All parties recognise the important role that the rail industry must play in reducing the environmental impact of travel, and welcome the growth in passenger numbers that we have seen in recent years, to the point where more people travel by train today than at any point since the 1940s.

We need a system that works effectively and puts the needs of passengers, and indeed freight, at its core. We all want a clean, safe and efficient train network in the future, and one that is fit for purpose. The previous Labour Government were committed to providing that and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) said, we hope that the current Government recognise the need to continue the investment in the railways that our country so desperately needs. Given the comprehensive spending review tomorrow, we may well soon see how committed the Government are to the future of the railway industry. Like my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran, I also welcome the lobby today by trade unionists and the TUC. We should remember that everyone is rightly concerned about the cuts that might be announced in the near future.

I would like to look at fares. The coalition’s programme for government stated that they were

“committed to fair pricing for rail travel.”

Will the Minister comment on reports from Channel 4 News over the weekend which speculated that we could face double-digit rises in train fares over each year of the spending review? It was reported that train fares are expected to be more than 30% higher by 2015, and industry sources pointed to a possible 40% hike in prices by 2015.

Media reports also suggested that the cost of a typical commuter season ticket between Brighton and London could increase from £3,104 a year to £4,260 by 2015, and between Swindon and London from £6,640 to £9,130. Does the Minister think that long-suffering train users will be willing to accept that?

[Mrs Villiers]

I would be grateful if the shadow Minister answered a question. Is he saying that if Labour had been re-elected, it would have cut rail fares?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am very grateful to the Transport Minister for that, but of course it is my job to ask her questions. Labour is in opposition and I am asking whether she thinks that those kinds of speculative rail increases are fair on passengers.

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman should not believe all he reads in the papers. The coalition is committed to fairness on rail fares. The announcement on the fares formula for the next few years will be made on Wednesday in the comprehensive spending review.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I appreciate that, but it could well mean that some lines end up with a pricing of RPI—the retail prices index—plus 5%. That is particularly ironic, as the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), who is now a Transport Minister, was elected on a pledge in the Liberal Democrat manifesto on train fares for RPI minus 1%; and the Secretary of State, as the Minister has reiterated today, has previously said that he has made a commitment to fair fares.

Passengers will not pay more for less. If they see increasing fares alongside cuts to plans for new capacity and infrastructure, that could mean fewer people travelling by rail. What guarantees do we have that fare rises will be matched by infrastructure and capacity improvements? I appreciate that the Minister will be reluctant—perhaps unable—to add much today and we shall have to wait to see what the Chancellor of the Exchequer says in tomorrow’s comprehensive spending review.

Franchising was mentioned. The Government’s consultation includes an intention to impose a far more relaxed and flexible specification. Flexibility can be a good thing, but there is a worry that a hands-off approach could allow train companies to become too focused on short-term profit and cost cutting, rather than delivering the best service for passengers and encouraging greater use of the railway. Will the Minister give me assurances that that will not be the case and that sufficient specification to guarantee socially important services will remain?

It is encouraging that there is interest in rail franchise bids from not-for-profit, mutual or co-operative franchise enterprises. Indeed, I note that my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) has secured a debate on that topic in Westminster Hall tomorrow. However, there are still unfair barriers that prevent such bids from benefiting passengers and taxpayers, as we saw recently with the attempt by the Co-op through its Go! Co-operative initiative, which would have been the UK’s first co-operative train operating company.

I shall refer briefly to some recent investments in rail. It is important to acknowledge, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington and others did, the significant progress that the previous Labour Government made in the past decade in rebuilding the country’s transport infrastructure after many decades of under-investment, which happened, to be fair, under Governments of all political persuasions.

We have completed the £9 billion programme to modernise the west coast main line, resulting in massive reductions in journey times, as I thankfully know from experience. It is now less than two hours from Stockport to London and, more importantly for me on a Thursday, from London back to Stockport.

Performance, capacity, reliability and safety levels throughout the rail network have improved significantly. High Speed 1 was up and running ahead of schedule, and the stunning redevelopment of St Pancras station proved to be a fitting terminal for high-speed trains to and from the continent. We delivered Britain’s first high-speed rail line and set out plans for a new north-south high-speed rail network—points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington and by the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir).

We more than doubled investment in local transport from 1997, improving accessibility and helping to tackle social exclusion in local communities. By May 2010, investment in transport had reached its highest level as a proportion of national income for 30 years. In addition, Labour finally achieved what previous Governments had tried but failed to do, in securing a funding deal for Crossrail. That is one of the most ambitious transport projects of recent years and will add 30,000 high-value jobs to London in the first 10 years and add an estimated £20 billion to the UK’s gross domestic product. We also set in place the £5.5 billion upgrading of Thameslink, which will introduce new cross-London routes and, with longer, more frequent trains, will allow for much-needed capacity, more seats and less crowding on key routes in the capital.

The northern hub made it an ambition over the next 20 years to increase the number of train services in the north, including cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, by 40%—700 more trains a day—making it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to travel by train every year. Those innovative and challenging projects were either delivered or planned. We need to continue that long-term focus on infrastructure and service if we are to provide Britain with the transport system that it needs to compete in the new global economy.

I wish to raise some specific issues with the Government. Transport cuts so far have totalled £683 million. That includes £108 million coming from Transport for London and £50 million from the better stations programme. I declare an interest, as that had a particular effect on Stockport station, which affects some of my constituents. The plans for hundreds of extra carriages to ease overcrowding have been put on hold.

In opposition, the Conservatives criticised the Labour Government in their 2009 rail review document, which recognised the need for extra capacity but accused us of not taking the problem seriously. There is a need for more trains, and I ask the Minister to tell us what the Government will do to alleviate that problem.

Can the Minister give me an assurance on electrification—an issue mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling)—both of the north-west routes and the great western main line, which are important projects to both regions? Likewise, can the Minister confirm that the Thameslink replacement of rolling stock will go ahead, which would in turn lead to the cascading of trains to the great western main line and the north-west routes?

The Government owe it to London’s business community and the travelling public to be open about their plans for Crossrail. Will the Crossrail project be delivered in full, as proposed by the previous Labour Government? Will there be any cost cutting in areas such as engineering, which could lead to shorter platforms and less capacity? Will the number of stations on Crossrail remain unchanged?

May I ask also about the bonfire of the quangos that we saw last week? What plans does the Minister have for Passenger Focus and what will its functions be now? How will disabled passengers be heard effectively now that the present Government have abolished the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee? The input of disabled passengers should be important, and that body provided a unique opportunity for both disabled people and industry to represent their case to Government.

The Government need to look beyond the period of the comprehensive spending review. We need a long-term vision for rail and we need to deliver these projects to build on our ambition for a world-class rail service in this country. The previous Labour Government left the rail network in a far better condition than we found it in. Rail passenger numbers increased by 40% in the past 10 years, and punctuality and quality of service improved steadily over that time, too. That is not an inheritance that the current Government should squander.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

Both the Secretary of State and I have repeatedly talked about our support for delivering the whole project, and it is worth bearing in mind the excellent work done by the team behind Crossrail to find lower-cost ways to deliver the same transport benefits, and to deliver the whole project.

It is true that there has been significant good news on the railways in recent years. Since privatisation there have been some striking successes, with train punctuality now at record levels and a significant increase in the number of passenger journeys. Also, the number of miles travelled on the railways has gone up by 75%. Since privatisation, therefore, a story of managed decline has been transformed into one of significant growth. Although the recession has subdued that trend to a degree, we expect it to resume once the economy recovers.

So, that is some of the good news about the UK’s railways. But the downside is that the cost of running the railways did rise dramatically under our Labour predecessors. If we are to deliver the improvements to services and capacity that hon. Members have called for today, and that passengers want, we have to find a way to get costs down. The disastrous deficit left for us by our predecessors makes it essential that we drive out cost inefficiencies on the railways, and we owe it to passengers to do our very best to get costs down.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Does the Minister not also recognise that it was the investment by the previous Labour Government that led to the very improvements that she has just championed as a cause of privatisation?

[Mrs Villiers]

I certainly recognise that the previous Government invested in the railways, and we would expect investment to continue under the current Government, given the huge importance of the railways to our economy and to our climate change ambitions. I covered the fares issue briefly in response to the shadow Minister, but I shall repeat my comments on it. The coalition is committed to fairness in rail fares, but the reality is that the crisis in the public finances means that we might have to take some difficult decisions on fares, as in other areas. As I have said, I am unable to give further details on the fares formula until it is announced for the coming years in the CSR on Wednesday.

There has been much discussion about the McNulty process, which is focused on trying to understand why the cost of the railways is higher in this country than in other parts of Europe, and I am sure that today’s discussion will contribute to and inform that process. It is important that a range of options be considered, and as part of our drive to deliver high-quality rail services at an affordable cost we need to consider how we reform Network Rail. Not even the levels of taxpayer support over recent years have succeeded in turning the company into the customer-oriented organisation that train and freight operators want. That fact was driven home when the rail regulator published the figures, to which the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran referred: the potential 40% efficiency gap between Network Rail and European comparators. I acknowledge that there are always problems comparing Network Rail precisely with different railways in the rest of Europe, but these things should sound a warning bell that there is an issue to be addressed. If we are to be fair to passengers and the taxpayer, we need to find a way to make Network Rail more efficient.