Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies (Environmentally Sustainable Investment) Bill

Steve Double Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 11th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Lewer]

A more general answer to that extremely specific question is that it is important to have realistic goals and targets in country, so that those sorts of ways of trying to get around things are avoided. That is why commitment and passion need to be mixed with pragmatism and realism in seeking targets that are actually achievable.

[Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)]

Before my hon. Friend moves on from that point, does the conversation that just took place not highlight the fact that there is little value in the UK reducing our carbon emissions to zero if we do not take other developed countries around the world with us? This is a global problem, and the UK eradicating carbon emissions in isolation from everyone else will have little impact globally.

[Andrew Lewer]

That does indeed highlight the importance of leading by example, so long as that example is a significant carbon reduction coupled with a successful economy, rather than wholesale carbon reduction done in a way that leads to economic problems, which would lead to other countries deciding not to follow the example for obvious reasons.

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[Andrew Lewer]

That is absolutely true. Although, of course, there are some things that are labelled green in which I have complete confidence, others cause serious concern for the reasons outlined.

[Steve Double]

My hon. Friend is being very generous. I cannot miss this opportunity to highlight the potential of lithium extraction in Cornwall being linked to geothermal energy, which will in itself be totally sustainable and carbon neutral. These are the ways in which the UK is leading the world in green technologies, which will help the UK to be a world leader in these things.

[Andrew Lewer]

My hon. Friend’s commitment to his constituency and to this particular area is well known, and that was a well-chosen opportunity.

Another of my worries is that the Bill does not achieve what it sets out to. There are concerns that it could reduce the ability of co-operatives and community benefit societies to invest in green sectors. In its current form, the Bill would restrict rather than extend societies’ potential to take on mission-aligned investments for environmental purposes. If the intention is for more societies to raise more capital for environmentally beneficial activities, the legislation should provide capital-raising options that are useful for many societies in many contexts, rather than the limited number of circumstances to which the Bill limits it.

I am also aware of concerns that green shares—the main aim of the Bill—might unintentionally create a capital instrument with similarities to a mini bond, as has already been touched upon. That is something else that causes some difficulties. When Her Majesty’s Treasury’s review into regulatory arrangements, which includes mini bonds, is completed, the Government will need to carefully consider its findings before passing legislation that would in essence create capital instruments with similarities to those mini bonds.

Having been drawn in two Prime Minister’s Question Times in a row—this week and last week—and been drawn first for both private Members’ Bills today, I will not push my recent considerable luck any further, Madam Deputy Speaker, and will conclude. I am persuaded that the proper and right way to push towards the development of further green financial instruments is through a full consultation, which would give all parts of the sector a chance to put their views and the Government the chance to listen before considering introducing similar draft legislation. In some respects, I support the main ambition of the Bill, as do many of my colleagues, but in its current form, without extensive engagement with the sector, and for the reasons outlined in my speech and in some of the interventions, there remain some unanswered questions.

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[Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to make a short contribution to this debate. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin) for bringing the Bill forward and for her clear passion and dedication and her knowledge of these matters.

There is no doubt about the vital and valuable role that co-operatives play in our country—they are just one of the many diverse models of ownership and governance that we have. It is one of the strengths of our economy that we have such a diverse array of ownership models. Clearly, co-ops, often being rooted in communities for mutual benefit, can play a really important role. There are many aspects of the Bill that I wholeheartedly applaud.

However, in the time that I have, I want to say a few words about the other aspect of this debate: the environment and sustainability. In opening the debate, the hon. Member fell into the trap, which so many of those who are passionate about the environment and sustainability fall into, of failing to recognise the significant progress that our nation and this Government are making on this matter. We are world leaders in so many ways.

When people refuse to acknowledge or just avoid acknowledging the progress we are making, and refuse to engage constructively with the debate, they undermine the argument. That is becoming counterproductive. Environmentalism is becoming seen by more and more reasonable, decent people in our country as an extreme thing—that is clearly represented by Extinction Rebellion—with an agenda that is not just about protecting the environment but about dismantling things that have been the very fabric of our society and our economy for too long.

That is polarising the debate just at the time when we need our country to come together around this issue. I think we are winning the argument on this. I think more people than ever before in our country recognise the importance of fighting climate change and protecting our environment. However, when we polarise it and fall into the trap of making it an extreme issue, we put people off.

We need to recognise that we have all been on a journey on this matter. The whole country has been on a journey. Different people are on different parts of that journey at this moment in time, but I believe that generally, as a nation, we are all moving in the same direction: towards being world leaders, perhaps even more than we are today, on fighting climate change.

[Anna McMorrin]

The hon. Member is right to say that climate change is a great threat to us, and we must be focused on tackling it right now in our communities and our economies. What he fails to say, though, is that this Government are set to miss every single international target on climate change. We need to make sure that the action is urgent. The action is needed now.

[Steve Double]

I understand and in some ways agree with the hon. Member’s point of view, but the point I am making is that when we when we make this an extreme argument, we put off more people than we win over. That is what I am genuinely concerned about. I have been on this journey too, and I am more passionate now than I have ever been in my life about the need to protect our environment and fight the consequences of climate change.

[Anna McMorrin]

rose—

[Steve Double]

I will not give way again. But I know from my postbag that the events of the last few weeks have actually put off people who were on this journey with us. I am just putting down a marker and saying that I am genuinely worried that unless we stop polarising this debate—unless we stop just attacking and engage constructively—it will be counterproductive to the cause, which I am sure the vast majority of us in this place wholeheartedly agree with.

We should start by acknowledging what our country is doing—what our Government have been doing and are going to continue to do—in a constructive way. Yes, absolutely, there is more to do—none of us would say there is not—but if we can start by acknowledging what has been achieved and the commitments in place, rather than adopting the approach that so often comes from Opposition Members, I believe we would get far more people onboard and make far more progress.

My plea is simply: yes, we want more investment in green technologies; yes, we want more sustainable investment, under whatever model we choose for our economy, but let us do it in a way that is collaborative, seeking the same outcome and stop polarising the debate and giving in to the extremists. That is my plea. There are many things in the Bill that I wholeheartedly support, but I share many of the concerns that the Minister outlined about the unanswered questions. If we are really going to fight climate change in this country, let us do it together and stop attacking each other over it.