Exiting the EU: Businesses in Wales

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ian C. Lucas]

As my hon. Friend makes clear, there will be a system in due course and the issue will be managed, but we have no idea what the system will be. More importantly, the businesses that will be required to operate it have no idea. This is a massive task. If we are to have a new system—not the points-based immigration system that applies to citizens from outside the EU—the Government must tell business what that will look like, what requirements and burdens they will impose on employers and where responsibility lies.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend is making a strong speech.

Individuals are also incredibly affected, including constituents of mine who have found that contracts they were meant to be working on in other EU member states in collaborations, and vice versa, have been cancelled because of the precautionary principle, given the uncertainty about what will happen and the risk of not being able to work on the projects in the next five or six years.

[Ian C. Lucas]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The clock is ticking on all these issues—I will sit down shortly because several of my hon. Friends want to make speeches—but what is really ticking is the clock for the Government. It is their responsibility to implement the policy they wish to see on these important matters, which could ultimately undermine confidence in business in our communities and affect the prosperity of our constituents.

We need a bit of straightforward clarity from the Government about the mechanics of what the new systems will look like, and we need engagement from the Government. That is not just about listening but about beginning to tell business what its responsibilities will be and what post-Brexit Wales will look like. That responsibility rests firmly with the Government, who have brought the situation about, and that must be made clear to our constituents. We need to have that clarity as soon as possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) on securing this important debate.

The uncertainties of leaving the European Union are hazardous and wide ranging. Structural funding, environmental protections and workers’ rights, trade with the EU and the impact on the economy and growth are all areas of concern for the businesses and people of Wales. The lack of clarity is both frustrating and worrying, as the absence of a plan creates an inertia that stalls economic growth and investment. Businesses in Wales have already suffered from the impact of austerity and poor economic UK growth since 2010.

The Office for Budget Responsibility has estimated that cumulative potential output growth will be 2.4 per- centage points lower than it would otherwise have been in 2021 had the referendum not happened. Growth forecasts from the consultancy company Oxford Economics have been downgraded in all regions, with growth in Wales expected to be about 0.25 percentage points lower than the pre-referendum forecast.

Structural funding has played an important role in the regeneration of a post-industrial Wales. The statistics may suggest that it has struggled to achieve its aim of increasing GDP and wealth, but that is not the whole story. When I visit communities across my constituency and the wider region, I find vibrancy, tenacity and life, despite hardship and economic decline. In the last round of funding, projects financed through our membership of the European Union across Neath Port Talbot have helped to launch 485 businesses, support 7,300 people into work, create 1,355 jobs, provide 14,870 qualifications and enable close to 5,000 people to complete an EU-funded apprenticeship—all in that county borough alone.

Projects such as the £22 million valleys regional park have built the tourism infrastructure of my constituency, and more and more visitors are coming to enjoy the beautiful scenery of Gnoll country park and the industrial heritage of Aberdulais Falls. The regional essential skills scheme has helped thousands of people to acquire the competencies necessary to return to work. Neath Port Talbot has also been a lead partner on the pioneering transitional employment initiative, Workways.

I must pay tribute at this point to the leader of Neath Port Talbot Council, Ali Thomas, who last night announced that he will be standing down after many years of service. In fact, he took over from the previous leader, Derek Vaughan, who went on to become our Labour MEP. They are two great men of Neath.

[Stephen Doughty]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, even with the prospect of the European Parliament seats for Wales being abolished, Derek Vaughan continues to fight for Wales and for all of us to secure the best deals on European funding for our constituencies?

[Christina Rees]

I absolutely agree that Degsy, as he is known in Neath, is continuing to fight Wales’s corner. He is vice-chair of the European Parliament’s budgetary control committee, so he has great influence in Europe.

Neath Port Talbot has been the lead partner on the pioneering transitional employment initiative, Workways, which has helped to tackle barriers that prevent individuals from finding or returning to employment by supporting the job search, CV writing and interview skills, and access to training. The Workways project would never have happened without EU structural funds. It received a contribution of £16.7 million towards its overall costs. The scheme is held in such high regard that a second phase has been funded—Workways Plus—which began in April this year and will support at least a further 1,000 people into employment.

Swansea University’s science and innovation campus, the Bay campus, which has had a substantial impact on Neath and the region, simply would not have happened without the £95 million of funding received from the European Union. Derek Vaughan’s legacy before he left as leader of Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council was to make sure that the campus was just inside the council area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe, and to follow the excellent speeches by colleagues from Wales. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) on securing this debate. We have all been listening to and hearing the concerns of businesses in our constituencies, which is why we are here today. I hope the Minister will have some helpful responses to the concerns that we have raised.

I have been listening to businesses in my constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth. I have spoken to small, large and medium-sized businesses and to individuals who have raised concerns with me at surgeries, on the doorstep and on many other occasions. There is a lot of concern. The issue is not minor; it comes up again and again. There is a willingness to get on and make things work, but there are a lot of questions and a lot of uncertainty.

Having listened to all those concerns, I am not prepared to support a blank cheque for the Government in activating article 50, particularly when there is so little information available about the plan. Members may be interested to know that the Brexit Secretary has been speaking to the Brexit Committee while we have been sitting; he has confirmed that no plan will be published until February at the latest, because, apparently, a lot of research and policy work needs to be done. He says there will be a transitional deal only if necessary. That is concerning. When in February? How late? If we are talking about activating article 50 on 31 March, we will not get any clarity on the Government’s plans until very late in February.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Guto Bebb)]

I do not think there is anything new in what the Secretary of State has said. Did not the Opposition accept the argument that article 50 will be triggered by the end of March on production of a plan before that?

[Stephen Doughty]

If the Minister checks the voting list, he will see which way I voted on that matter. I am speaking about my own views on this issue and I certainly have a great deal of concern about the lack of information.

[Geraint Davies]

Does my hon. Friend also accept that even if we did agree to this last minute plan, whatever it is, once article 50 is triggered the 27 EU countries will decide to give us what they want, not what is in the plan?

[Stephen Doughty]

I have a great many concerns about the negotiating process, but I want to turn to three areas of particular concern that businesses have raised with me: regional funding, the single market and the situation for universities.

It is worth reflecting, as some colleagues have, on the importance of the scale on which businesses engage in the single market. There are 191,000 jobs dependent on EU trade, and that affects everything from steel to the high-tech products in my constituency; 500 firms in Wales export more than £5 billion annually to other EU member states and 450 firms from other EU member states, located in Wales, employ more than 50,000 people.

Several hon. Members have spoken about funding and I will come on to that, but, without referencing specific names, the sorts of things I have been told about include workers’ rights to travel to engage in cross-European projects; contracts, which I mentioned in an intervention; and concerns about research collaboration and major long-term projects being put at risk. The message is very clear that businesses do not want a hard Brexit, if there is to be a Brexit. They want it to be as soft as possible and are particularly concerned about tariffs and access to the single market. Those concerns are constantly raised with me.

Businesses were positive with me about the work that the Welsh Labour Government are doing to try to provide some certainty and optimism in the economy in uncertain times. There is particular praise for the work of the First Minister and Economy Secretary, who went to the United States and Japan to stand up for Welsh businesses and the links that we have with those two markets. Whether it is a case of fighting for funding for the south Wales metro or for other projects, the Welsh Assembly Government are trying to ensure that some positive things happen during the uncertainty.

There is also continued investment in infrastructure projects and building, including a lot going on in Cardiff at the moment. There is the city centre redevelopment; we have plans for new stations; we have an enterprise zone, where there is a lot of investment; and—to give credit—there is some degree of cross-party agreement on a city deal. It is vital that such investment in infrastructure and business should continue, particularly now while there is a lot of uncertainty.

[Wayne David]

We understand that the Government have given some assurances about the continuation of what would have been European funding. Does my hon. Friend share my concern about the fact that the Government are also talking about changing expenditure priorities?

[Stephen Doughty]

I do. I have yet to be convinced about the certainty on levels of funding, let alone the sectors. That will be greatly worrying to many in my constituency. It is worth reflecting on what the Office for Budget Responsibility said in the economic and fiscal outlook published in November: that as a result of the referendum decision, the potential output growth will be 2.4 percentage points lower than it would have otherwise been in 2021 without the referendum. As to the impact on Wales, the House of Commons Library briefing mentions that there could be

“lower business investment…the impact of a less open economy on productivity…a reduction in investment in research and development”

and

“costs associated with adjustments to new regulations or new markets”.

There will obviously be costs and changes: how are they to be minimised?

On regional funding, €5 billion for Wales is planned for 2014 to 2020, and potentially £2.7 billion post-2020. I still do not feel that we have had the guarantees from the Treasury. Why does that matter? It matters for specific projects such as the south Wales metro, which is vital for people’s ability to get around, do business, get to work and take advantage of opportunities in my constituency and the whole south Wales area.

We might be able to achieve those things in part outside the south Wales metro project. I have supported, for example, the proposals for a St Mellons parkway station, which could be funded by other means. There is a good degree of cross-party agreement about the importance of Network Rail and Department for Transport funding for it. However, fundamentally, the south Wales metro has the potential to be a transformative scheme for the south Wales economy. I am pleased that the First Minister was in Brussels arguing for the £110 million-worth of funding. The European Commission was very clear in saying that it could not comment about what would happen after the UK leaves. Such uncertainty is causing concern, so perhaps the Minister will provide some assurances—particularly about that project, which is so crucial to the economy of south Wales.

I have mentioned concerns about access to the single market, which will affect all businesses. I should be particularly worried if we were to consider putting tariffs on goods produced in Wales. The First Minister has made it clear that that is a red line for him. It would affect industries such as the steel industry in my constituency.

I have spoken many times in this Chamber about companies such as Celsa, based on my patch. It does significant amounts of exporting. It is a European company from Catalonia in Spain and works across the European Union. Forty per cent. of direct sales of British and Welsh steel go to the EU. That is similar to the overall total—41% of total goods exports from Wales go to the EU. What assurances can the Minister give to companies such as Celsa that export so much to the EU, let alone other places? What tariffs might they face in the future? What additional trade restrictions might they face?

We have heard a lot of talk about Airbus, which also has a major facility, Airbus Defence and Space, in a neighbouring constituency to mine, Newport West, where a number of my constituents work. Concerns are being expressed about European collaboration on space projects. High tech is an important growth industry in which the UK has been investing more. I should hate such jobs to be lost from our communities—let alone the wider aerospace industry in south Wales.

I want finally to discuss universities. The total value of future research income to Cardiff University, from the seventh framework programme and Horizon 2020 up to July 2016, was £23.5 million, with further applications in the pipeline of up to £15.7 million; work from the European structural fund was worth £23.6 million, plus a potential £35.2 million of projects in development. Those are significant sums.

To give an idea of the sorts of projects involved, I should say that they include the Cardiff University brain research imaging centre, which is doing pioneering work on dementia, multiple sclerosis and other neurological conditions. We should be proud that that work is going on in our capital city. Many researchers from my constituency work in and around the university. What if such things are to be put at risk? I am hearing a lot of concern from the university sector in my area, from individual workers and universities. What assurances can the Minister give?

[Christina Rees]

There is uncertainty about whether the excellent Erasmus programme in which students from Wales can study in Europe will continue. It has benefited many students from my constituency, and, I am sure, from across Wales.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point: 18% of Cardiff University’s home undergraduates are defined as internationally mobile—so they have taken part in Erasmus or one of the other types of exchange schemes, often with other European countries. That adds to their value—their opportunities to contribute to the global economy in the future and bring value to the economy in Wales. That is even before we get on to considering the contribution of international students, researchers and experts to our university sector in Wales. What assurances can the Minister give that those opportunities will not be lost in future for the Welsh university sector?

I have outlined three key areas about which concerns have been raised with me. I hope that the Minister will provide some reassurances and guidance for those who have expressed them. It is clear that this is an uncertain time for all involved. I am not happy for the Government to be given a blank cheque over the negotiations. I want to secure the best deal for businesses, individuals and the academic sector in my constituency and Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Guto Bebb]

I will of course give way to my Parliamentary Private Secretary—no, had I better not. Certainly, the debate has been interesting, but hon. Members are well aware that Members have responsibilities in different parts of the House and are in different debates that are going on, and it is unworthy of the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) to try to score that political point.

Going back to the success of the Welsh economy, we need to identify the fact that small businesses are a great part of that success story. Small businesses are growing. Indeed, we have seen the figures that show that small businesses’ growth in turnover in Wales has been among the best in the UK during the past year. The best performing part of the entire UK has been small businesses in Cardiff, which have enjoyed 12% growth in turnover, outpacing the situation in London. I pay tribute to all small businesses in Cardiff that have been part of that success story.

[Stephen Doughty]

I pay tribute to them, too, as I did in my speech. On the Minister’s earlier comments, to be fair, I did make it very clear that there had been work on the city deal and on the enterprise zone, and that kind of constructive work needs to continue through this period of uncertainty. Does he agree that the very real concerns being raised by a number of businesses in my constituency, despite that growth, are valid and need to be answered?

[Guto Bebb]

As a Minister in the Wales Office, I fully accept that small businesses have concerns—indeed, all businesses in all sectors of the economy in Wales have concerns—but they also see opportunities, and we have heard precious little on those opportunities in this debate. The Secretary of State for Wales and I have been out dealing with stakeholders regularly—those in the farming industry, the third sector, the university sector and the further education sector; businesses small and large; the Confederation of British Industry; the Institute of Directors; and the Federation of Small Businesses. We have been talking to all those stakeholders. We have been doing that because this change—the decision made by the people of Wales and the United Kingdom to leave the European Union—is huge, so it is imperative that we talk to individuals, businesses and stakeholders who will be affected.

A Government who were arrogant enough to think that they had all the answers are not a Government I would want to be a part of. The fantastic thing about my involvement in the Wales Office since March has been the opportunity to meet so many stakeholders in Wales and listen to what they want from the decision that was made to leave the European Union.