Checks on Goods: Northern Ireland and Great Britain

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

The why is very clear—why a deal is important for the island of Ireland, and for Northern Ireland specifically—but may I say to the Secretary of State that that is not the case with the how and the what? Given the lack of absolute clarity from Ministers and indeed from HMRC, if the Government are serious about trying to sell this proposal to the communities of Northern Ireland, they are doomed to failure. May I urge that the Secretary of State, the Northern Ireland Secretary, the Prime Minister and the head of HMRC get together pretty quickly? In oral evidence yesterday, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland referred to clauses of the Bill being brought forward. The communities need to see those in a timely fashion. We actually need to see draft documents about what these requirements would be. They are causing huge concern in Northern Ireland, and the Secretary of State will not be able to sell the deal unless within the next few days we have the clarity that will assuage very legitimate concerns.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I accorded the hon. Gentleman some latitude in the light of his notable celebrity as the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, but a similar latitude cannot be widely extended. At this rate, lots of people will not get in, and it will be no good their whingeing about it—that is the reality.

[Stephen Barclay]

My hon. Friend, as the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, raises an important point about what reassurance can be given through the withdrawal agreement Bill to colleagues across the House to address some of these issues. I stand ready to discuss that with him, as I have offered to do with the shadow spokesman and others in the House, subject to the withdrawal agreement Bill proceeding, during its passage.

I remind the Chair of the Select Committee—of course he is very aware of this—that operationally these are issues that apply at the end of the implementation period, not when the withdrawal agreement is ratified, so there will be time for much more consultation with businesses in Northern Ireland to address the very legitimate questions that have been raised. Although it sometimes feels a bit longer, it was only last Thursday that the agreement was reached with the EU, and of course there are questions about what are often quite complex and technical arrangements pertaining to customs. Those are legitimate questions, and I stand ready to discuss them with businesses in Northern Ireland and also with my hon. Friend.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I call the author of the brevity textbook, Sir Desmond Swayne.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

What proportion of goods from non-EU countries are currently subject to physical checks on entering the UK and the Republic of Ireland?

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

We have had only five Back Benchers, even though the urgent question has been running for 26 minutes. I say gently to the Secretary of State that nobody could accuse him of excluding from his answers any consideration that he thinks might be material in any century, but it would be helpful if we expedited progress on this important matter.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

In no way dispelling the fears of the Unionist community, of which I would consider myself one, may I quote what the Library says on this matter:

“there are currently checks on animal products entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain including physical checks on livestock”?

While there is the potential for those to increase under this agreement, the agreement is not establishing a principle in that respect—that principle is already established.

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[Stephen Barclay]

My hon. Friend is right. In some ways I can go further and better than that, in that the text actually requires both sides to work to minimise the concern to which he has referred. So I would not see it so much as requiring to put leverage on the EU. I think there is a common interest in minimising this, because the text requires it and because, as I said in my response to the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper), the EU is incentivised to minimise the impact to ensure that the arrangements gain the consent of the Assembly in Northern Ireland.

[Mr Speaker]

Alistair Carmichael.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

“We could not support any deal that creates a border of any kind in the Irish Sea and undermines the Union or leads to Northern Ireland having a different relationship with the EU than the rest of the UK, beyond what currently exists.”

Those are not my words, but the words of the former Secretary of State for Scotland and Ruth Davidson, the recently resigned leader of the Scottish Conservative party—an intervention that was described at the time by an unnamed Scottish Conservative spokesperson as “an article of faith” for the Scottish Conservatives. Can the Secretary of State tell the House: when did the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party lose its faith?

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We must move on at 11.30 am.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

The raft of contradictory statements by senior members of the Government has caused nothing but confusion and anxiety for businesses over the past 24 hours. Given that the Prime Minister does not even seem to understand or be able to be straight about the impact of the Brexit proposals on the future of £18 billion- worth of trade within our own country, why on earth would anyone trust him to negotiate our future trading relationships with the EU or the rest of the world?

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

I am very sorry to disappoint colleagues, but we are constrained for time and a very large number of Members want to speak in the Queen’s Speech debate.