Members’ Paid Directorships and Consultancies

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I inform the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. A manuscript amendment to the Opposition motion on paid directorships and consultancies and hon. Members has been tabled by the hon. Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) to add at the end of the motion the words, “or be paid trade union officials.”

As I have said, I have already selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. Under Standing Order No. 31, when a Minister moves an amendment on an Opposition day, the question before the House is that the original words stand part of the question. It is on that motion that debate proceeds and, at the end, the House is invited to vote on it. If the Opposition motion is agreed to by the House, it becomes a resolution of the House. If the Opposition motion is disagreed to by the House, the Standing Order obliges the Chair to put forthwith the question on the amendment moved by a Minister. If that is agreed to, the Chair will declare the main question, as amended, to be agreed to.

The situation is, therefore, that once a Minister has moved an amendment to an Opposition motion on an Opposition day, it is not possible for a second amendment, whether manuscript or not, to the Opposition motion to be put to the House. Assuming that the Leader of the House will move his amendment, I cannot therefore select the manuscript amendment.

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker, in the light of your ruling. The manuscript amendment was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) in response to something that the Prime Minister said, in Prime Minister’s questions, that he wanted to happen. If the Leader of the House were to withdraw or not move his amendment to the motion, would it then be possible under Standing Order No. 31 for the manuscript amendment tabled by my hon. Friend to be moved?

[Mr Speaker]

I can confirm that if the Leader of the House were to decide not to move his amendment, it would be open to me to decide whether to select the manuscript amendment. That is indeed the factual position. We should now proceed with the debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your guidance. I am sure that no Member would wish to contribute to the debate, given its subject matter, without declaring any relevant interests. What guidance can you give to Members, given the terms of the motion, on what they should declare before intervening or making a speech?

[Mr Speaker]

It is the responsibility of each individual Member to declare as appropriate. The obligation is no different in this debate from it would be in any other debate, and I assume that all hon. and right hon. Members are fully conscious of their responsibilities in this matter.

--- Later in debate ---

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. As I understand the rules—perhaps I could get some guidance on this—a Member should declare what those interests are, as opposed simply to referring the House to the “register”.

[Mr Speaker]

“Erskine May” does treat of this matter. The short answer to the hon. Lady is that, yes, it should be clear to the House what is constituted by the interest, because that makes the debate that much more intelligible. It is a straightforward point, and I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising it, and I have ruled, on advice, accordingly.

[Gregory Barker]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for Labour millionaires to give us the value of their freehold property in London when declaring their interests—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Sit down. The right hon. Gentleman is an experienced ex-Minister, and that was a very poor attempt at a point of order—it did not even begin to get into the category of a point of order. [Interruption.] Order. The right hon. Gentleman should not be wittering irrelevantly from a sedentary position. I have ruled on the matter, and I have done with clarity and accuracy. Those hon. Members can accept it, and that is the end of it.

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that we all want to get this right. Very often in debate all that it has been necessary to say is, “I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.” Just to be absolutely clear, I think that what you have said means that we will all have to recite into the record exactly what is in our entry in the register. If that is what you would like us to do when called to speak, I for one am happy to do it. It will take a little time, but I am very willing to do it in the interests of transparency.

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. The answer is very straightforward, and it is twofold: first, of course individual Members must take responsibility for what they say in this House when they rise to their feet; and secondly, very simply, the interest in question has to be sufficiently clear to be informative to the House in the context of the debate. It is a very straightforward point and I have now made it twice. I hope that it is clear to all right hon. and hon. Members.

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. It might be helpful to ask you about my understanding that it is not customary to explain points of one’s interests in interventions or supplementary questions; that is normally reserved for main speeches, the idea being that it advances the debate.

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is that the declaration should be made where it does not impede the progress of debate, and it should certainly not impair the decorum of the debate. [Interruption.] Order. Members can study the matter, which is treated of in some detail in “Erskine May”. The House would be the first to complain, and rightly so, if I were to read out what is in “Erskine May”. I do not do that. I do not need to do that. Members should apprise themselves of what is said in “Erskine May” on the matter and judge their actions accordingly, which I know the hon. Gentleman, in particular, is extremely adept at doing. I suggest that others could usefully follow his example.

[Paul Flynn]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Very briefly, would it not solve the problem, and be in the spirit of “Erskine May”, if Members gave us not a long catalogue of interests, but an approximate total of the money they receive from them every year?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member of this House. He has made his point, and I think that he has done so with a puckish grin. He knows that I do not need to rule upon it.

[Ian Murray]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Mr Murray has a very solemn expression upon his face, which gives the impression at least that he has a serious point of order to raise. I hope that he has.

[Ian Murray]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. For clarity, although “Erskine May” does give direction in this House, I received a complaint from the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority for saying in this House, “I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests”, and the complaint was upheld on the basis that I did not say what the interest was. Practically, in this parliamentary term I had to apologise to the House for declaring my interests but not saying what those interests were.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. [Interruption.] Order. I hope that the House will understand that I cannot be expected to offer Members a tutorial on the matter. People would think it very odd if the Speaker were inclined to do so. [Interruption.] Order. If Members are uncertain and want my advice from the Chair—I do not think that the Leader of the House is in need of my advice on the matter—I say that it is probably better for them to err on the side of caution, and to reveal more rather than less is a very safe course of action. I think that treats of the gravamen of the point of order raised by the right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry). I have sought to help the House, but I think that I can best help it now by enabling the Leader of the House to continue with his oration.

[Conor Burns]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Very briefly.

[Conor Burns]

Having known you for more than 20 years, I would not wish to find myself in the position of having to rise to my feet to apologise to you and to the House, so let me say that my entry in the register shows that I work nine hours a month for a construction and civil engineering company that I worked for prior to coming to this House. For the avoidance of doubt, that company does something that Opposition Front Benchers are doing now: digging holes.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has no need to apologise to me. [Interruption.] Come on—let us try to preserve some decency of spirit in these matters. I say genuinely to the hon. Gentleman that he sought advice on this matter and he has tried to do the right thing. What he has just said is the right thing and I thank him for it.

[Mr Hague]

If I do not get on with this speech, no one will be declaring any interests because time will run out for the debate. When the points of order started, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns) was being very kind about the books that I wrote.

That takes me to the point that I was going to make, which I have let the hon. Gentleman’s office know I would make: the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), the shadow Education Secretary, according to the register, earns substantial sums from articles, lecturing and book fees, and those are very good books, on which I congratulate him. Does the Labour party propose to apply this cap to earnings from books? Let me explain the import of that. The only way to ensure that sales from such a book remained under Labour’s cap would be to write an unsuccessful book, of which there are also examples on the Opposition Benches.

By what logic, according to Labour, is it acceptable for a Member to write an unsuccessful book but not a successful one? By what logic is it okay to write an unsuccessful book but not to engage in some other activity no more threatening to the public interest than an unsuccessful book?

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. A significant number of Members are seeking to catch my eye. As always, I want to try to accommodate colleagues, so I am afraid that there has to be a five-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It will take me five minutes to read out my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. [Laughter.] It is not fair: I must be given at least five minutes to make my speech.

[Mr Speaker]

I did not say, nobody said and “Erskine May” does not state that a Member has to read out a list. I know that the right hon. Gentleman is trying to be helpful, not least to himself, but I did not say that; I said that an interest needs to be made clear to the House.

We need a time limit because I want to try to accommodate colleagues, the first of whom to contribute is Sir Alan Duncan.