The Riots

Siobhain McDonagh Excerpts

Thursday 13th October 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Lammy]

Of course, serious issues remain for all police forces, particularly those policing urban areas, but at the heart of the discussion, as other hon. Members have said, is trust. I was a very young man and lawyer when the first round of debate about stop and search happened, and here we are—25 years later—still having that same debate. When will we put it to one side?

Let us look at the figures. Young black people are stopped and searched at seven times the rate of young white people, and some are stopped at 27 times the rate of young white people, particularly where there is a section 60 order in place. There is a section 60 order in place in my constituency. That issue is very real. I am not suggesting that we should abandon stop and search. It seems to me that those who argue for the abandonment of stop and search need to stop and think. The No. 1 issue that young people are raising in London is knife crime, and against that backdrop of course we must have stop and search. It is patently obvious that to keep young people feeling safe on their way to and from school, we must stop and search, but we must do it intelligently and with a police force that the broader community trusts. That is why the figures that I have cited in relation to the ethnic minority profile of the police are so crucial.

In addition, I am hugely critical of the decision effectively to downgrade stop and account, and stop and search. I still believe that when a police officer stops and searches someone, they should put down the name of the person that they stopped and they should certainly put down whether there has been any injury or damage as a consequence. I sat on the delegated legislation Committee dealing with the changes to the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 code and stop and search, and I listened to the Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice make arguments about bureaucracy, but I say to the Government that those are precisely the issues that undercut trust in the fact that stop and search can be done intelligently. That is leading to real antagonism among young men, particularly young black men in London.

I have been stopped and searched. I was stopped and searched during the last general election.

[Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)]

Wasn’t your rosette a giveaway? [Laughter.]

[Mr Lammy]

I was not wearing my rosette on that occasion; I had taken it off. I was stopped and searched. I was not happy about it, but I understood. Obviously, I opened my mouth to speak, although I did not say who I was because I wanted to see how it would pan out, and it was okay.

Stop and search is a reality of communities such as mine, but it must be done with trust. I am also concerned about the officers who are doing it. If we are to have a Met, I want young people—I do not care what their colour is, actually—who have grown up on the streets of Hackney, Peckham, Camberwell, Tottenham and Kensal Rise in our police force. I do not want a police force that effectively consists of young men and women who have grown up anywhere but in London. I must say that too many officers come from far-flung areas, which means that the relationship-building process with communities is problematic.

--- Later in debate ---

[Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)]

The riots happened because they could, and there is a real issue about how the police handled London on those few nights. There were simply not enough police officers available, and there seemed to be little direction from the centre. I am sure that all the borough services did what they could, but there seemed to be no overarching direction on how to deal with anything.

By 3 o’clock in my constituency, everyone knew what was going to happen. We had phone calls to our offices, the police knew, we knew about the BlackBerry messages, and some of the young people who were demonised turned up at Mitcham police station asking the police to look at their BlackBerries to ensure that everyone knew what was going to happen. However, unfortunately Croydon went up first. Understandably, the officers at Mitcham went to Croydon. It was rather like young boys learning to play football. There are 22 players on the pitch, and when the ball goes to one end, all 22 follow. That is precisely what happened.

I say that not to criticise anyone in particular, because what has happened has happened, but to provide a tool for the future. We have a new regime at New Scotland Yard, and I hope that it will learn. There is an issue about shift patterns, and availability at weekends and in the evenings, which must be addressed. My police force, under Mr Wolfenden whom I regularly criticise, deserves no criticism at this point, but I want to share a story that is symptomatic of what happened in my constituency and, I am sure, in all the constituencies represented by hon. Members here today.

The police went back to Wimbledon police station because they had no riot-trained officers, who, understandably, were in Croydon. They got together what bits of old kit they had to make up protective gear. They went out of Wimbledon police station, but they did not have a bus or a car to travel in, because they were all somewhere else, so the police marched the 2.5 miles from Wimbledon police station to the Tandem leisure centre. When they got there, there was nothing they could do because there were so many people rioting and looting because they could, and because the police were not there to defend anyone. The consequence was that people were frightened.

I have underestimated the fear felt by residents who were not involved. People were worried that rioters would march up their street and set their house on fire. Elderly people could hear the noise, but did not know what they would do if people came towards them. The mums and dads of young men and women were worried that their sons and daughters would go out and become caught up in the riot. The fear was represented in every community.

We as MPs must deal with that fear, build relationships with the community, and work in our communities. If I had the opportunity, I would tell people, whatever their party, that the consultation on individual electoral registration closes tomorrow, so they should look at the document, and say what they think about it. If we lose young people in London from our electoral register because of those judgments, our position will become much worse.