Finance Bill

Simon Kirby Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Helen Goodman]

I am, because I know that my hon. Friend has a keen interest in that, as do people up and down this country.

So we have had big cuts to the Arts Council. The Government have also imposed big cuts on local government, and from answers that I have received to freedom of information requests, we now know that on average local authorities are cutting their arts provision by even more—some 14%. So, given the estimates in the Red Book of the value of this tax relief rising from £5 million to £20 million per year, we can immediately see that it does not compensate for the reductions that have been experienced in public support.

My hon. Friend is right: there is a big issue about what is going on in the regions. The “Rebalancing our Cultural Capital” report suggested that the Government were supporting cultural institutions to the tune of 14 times as much per person in London as elsewhere, and that is not conscionable in the long term for this country. It is clearly because of that concern about regional imbalance that the Minister has decided to provide a slightly more generous relief for touring.

[Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady be very clear: is she opposed to the cuts in the DCMS, and if so, would Labour reverse them?

[Helen Goodman]

I think it must be a matter of regret to everybody in the House that DCMS has taken 36% cuts. Of course, the question whether they can be restored is, as the hon. Gentleman knows, a completely separate one. I am just pointing out that the tax relief, if the legislation is properly drafted, will not cancel out the effect of those cuts. I am hoping that no one on the Government side is trying, through some sleight of hand, to give such an impression.

To return to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) raised, it is my understanding that in Darlington, the theatre is what is called a receiving house. That means that new plays are not being made in Darlington. Companies come on tour to Darlington and their productions are shown for several days. There are many very good producing houses in the regions as well; one good example would be the Nottingham Playhouse, where they make plays and tour them, and sometimes they tour them to London—they have just had something on at the Almeida.

A receiving house will not get the benefit of this tax relief; it is the producing company that gets the benefit. Of course, it may be that if they get the tax relief or the tax credit, they could offer the production to the receiving house for slightly less money, which might ease the situation in a place like Darlington, but there will not be a direct benefit, as I understand it.

My next question is whether the definition of touring is the right one and whether the measure will address the regional imbalance. As my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North pointed out, it is completely sensible to say that the extra relief is given if the play is taken to more than six places, but we must question whether 14 productions in two places is an appropriate definition of touring. Some of those who responded to the Government’s consultation said it would be a good idea to have a geographical definition of touring, and I do not understand why the Minister has not done that. I think he is risking some revenue leakage on this point. To give a concrete example, a play could be on on one side of Shaftesbury avenue for 14 nights, then move to the other side of Shaftesbury avenue for 15 or 25 nights and it would benefit, but the Government would not have achieved their policy objective of ensuring that the theatrical experience took in a new, wider audience.

I think there is a problem and I am disappointed by the way the Minister has drafted the provision; it is a weak spot. On the other hand, he might be being too restrictive in the number of production companies that can benefit, although we do not yet know how the guidelines will operate. In principle, of course it is a good idea to support British theatre. It is a great industry, we are very good at it and we have some of the best actors and theatre companies in the world, so in principle, it is a good idea to have a theatre tax relief, but I do have those two questions about those two parts of the new clause and the schedule.

--- Later in debate ---

A number of questions were asked about theatre tax relief. Let me seek to answer them. Members raised concerns that the relief could be abused and asked whether we will review the measure in future. We consider that effective anti-avoidance rules are critical to the long-term success and stability of theatre tax relief, a view that I think has been expressed on both sides of the House. The Government will include rules similar to those applied under film tax relief to prevent artificial inflation of claims. In addition, there will be a general anti-avoidance rule, based on the general anti-abuse rule, denying relief where there are tax-avoidance arrangements relating to the production. Of course, HMRC will monitor for abuse once the regime has been introduced.

[Simon Kirby]

Is the Exchequer Secretary any clearer than I am about whether the Labour party will reverse the cuts to the Department for Media, Culture and Sport, because I am still not sure whether it intends to or not?

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for another example of Labour opposing yet another measure that this Government have taken to try to reduce the deficit. At least Labour Members did not make another spending pledge on this occasion, but we will, of course, continue to monitor their remarks very closely because they frequently do make spending pledges. [Interruption.] Perhaps the presence of the shadow Chief Secretary, the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie), has instilled some uncharacteristic discipline in Labour Front Benchers.

Let me turn to the question of why some circuses are excluded and some points of definition. With the exception of the named exclusions, other types of performing arts can benefit, provided that those giving the performance can demonstrate that they are wholly or mainly playing a role and that each performance is live and that the presentation of live performance is the main object, or one of the main objects, of the theatre production company’s activities. The Government believe that using that definition, which considers the nature of the performance, is more appropriate than listing types of performing arts. In cases where further clarity may be required, companies should seek professional advice or contact HMRC. On the subject of HMRC, I was asked about its resources. The House may be pleased to know that a specialist unit has been provided to assist businesses with making claims under this relief.

The definition of “touring” has been raised and whether more should be done in terms of relating it to geographical location. A production can qualify as “touring” if there is an intention to perform at six or more separate premises or to present 14 performances in two or more premises. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) is right to say that we considered alternative definitions of “touring,” including the use of geographical restrictions, but we believe that our definition provides a simple and effective way to support the range of types and sizes of tours that take place. That is why we have gone with that definition.

On the question whether this will cause a significant administrative burden for charities or not-for-profit theatre companies, minimising complexity and ensuring straightforward compliance was one of the central considerations in designing the relief. That is why we are basing it on the film tax relief model, which is also used successfully for other creative industry tax reliefs. We have worked closely with industry in determining the design of the relief, to ensure that it works for the industry, particularly the not-for-profit sector. Officials continue to engage with industry, including by attending events to help and advise in the run-up to companies starting to make claims in September. Ultimately, detailed guidance will be published on the HMRC website to ensure that companies and charities get the support they need.