Oral Answers to Questions
Simon Hughes Excerpts(11 years, 7 months ago)
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Alistair Burt
The hon. Lady is correct when she says that CHOGM provides the opportunity for us and others to express concerns to Sri Lanka, and to urge it to make good its own promises to fulfil the Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Commission’s recommendations. We have urged it to do so and we will continue to do that.
I was able to speak to the Sri Lankan Foreign Minister yesterday. I made reference to our further concerns, whether they are about the impeachment of the Chief Justice or further attacks on the press in Jaffna, and made it clear that if Colombo is to host CHOGM later this year, the spotlight will be on Sri Lanka and it will need to demonstrate to the world how it has responded to these concerns and made good its own beliefs in reconciliation for the future.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
May I again urge on Ministers the idea that the Commonwealth should have a group of people independent of the relevant Government, who can go in and look at human rights issues, so that we can have not just a charter, but a method of reporting back to see whether the charter is upheld in Sri Lanka and other places?
Alistair Burt
The determination of the Commonwealth to uphold the highest principles, the Lancaster principles, and how that can be ensured in all Commonwealth countries, is a matter of active discussion in the Commonwealth. The situation in Sri Lanka has pointed out very sharply the discrepancy between the concerns and those values in principle. I have no doubt that leaders of the Commonwealth and Heads of State are acutely aware of the concerns that my right hon. Friend raises, and will be addressing them.
Sri Lanka
Simon Hughes Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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Simon Danczuk
The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point. I am convinced that it is about political interference. The police out there have done a relatively reasonable—quite a good—job investigating. I will come back to some of those points in my speech.
Worse still, the permanent secretary at the Ministry of Justice added that the accused would be able to choose the trial that he wished. It would be unlikely that he would want a trial at bar in Colombo, and the likelihood is that it would be a trial by jury in Tangalle, where he has a fearful reputation and where jury members are likely to be easily intimidated. With most of the country’s media in Colombo, the trial would pass without a great deal of scrutiny. This case has reached a sorry pass when it seems the best that we can hope for is a sham trial.
Police have told us that they have 12 witness statements identifying the main suspect and that they are only awaiting DNA tests, which have been delayed for the best part of a year. Whenever we question the delay, we get the same response: “the tests will be ready in a few more months.” Although I accept that the Sri Lankan justice system moves slower than ours, I remain convinced that political interference is putting the brake on any efforts to move things forward. In a country that can impeach its chief justice in a matter of weeks but see little progress in 15 months on the death of a British tourist, serious questions need to be asked about not just the independence of Sri Lanka’s judiciary, but also its ability to stop further crimes like this happening.
The Minister will be aware that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office travel guidance on Sri Lanka warns of an increasing number of sexual offences being committed and gangs being known to operate in tourist areas. My concern is that although British Airways promotes Sri Lanka as its No. 1 destination for 2013, many tourists do not know of the potential dangers that they face.
We all know of the vast Chinese investment in Sri Lanka’s tourism sector, but making Sri Lanka open to the world requires a lot more than just hotels; it requires a commitment to the shared international values of democracy, human rights and justice. More than ever, that commitment should be on display to the world right now, as Sri Lanka gears up for the CHOGM.
President Rajapaksa has talked of the “true Commonwealth spirit” that the summit will embody, but against a backdrop of the continued denials of human rights abuses, the sacking of its chief justice for daring to make a decision that the Government found inconvenient and the abandonment of the rule of law, it is hard to see where the true Commonwealth spirit is in Sri Lanka. For Rajapaksa’s regime to continue flagrantly to ignore key Commonwealth values, while assuming the position of chair-in-office of the Commonwealth later this year, makes a mockery of the Commonwealth and winds back the clock on 60 years of progress.
There is a growing chorus of opposition to Sri Lanka hosting such a prestigious event, and I hope the Minister is attentive to those legitimate concerns. Geoffrey Robertson, QC, has argued:
“A visit to Sri Lanka by the Queen, as the head of the Commonwealth, would provide a propaganda windfall—a royal seal of approval—to the host president after his destruction of the country’s judicial independence.”
A former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind), has said that it would be a mistake for Sri Lanka to host the meeting, which he likened to Pretoria hosting a Commonwealth summit while South Africa was under apartheid. Another former Foreign Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (David Miliband), has said that the notion of the Queen attending the meeting in Sri Lanka is “grotesque”. Although I share his sentiment, I would use even stronger language to describe my reaction to the possibility of Her Majesty coming face to face with the chief suspect of the cold-blooded and cowardly murder of my constituent.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for initiating this debate. I share his view that Sri Lanka ought not to host the CHOGM. Will he join me in asking the Minister to consider whether it might be reasonable to set up an organisation under the auspices of the Commonwealth, or to commission a body such as Justice or the International Commission of Jurists, to go to Sri Lanka to carry out an objective report on the country’s legal situation? Not only is there the hon. Gentleman’s case, but many others that need investigation where Sri Lanka has fallen far short of any acceptable Commonwealth standard.
Simon Danczuk
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Any suggestions or proposals that would improve the situation in Sri Lanka are welcome. I am interested to hear the Minister’s response.
It has been reported that the main suspect, Sampath Chandra Pushpa, is to be invited to the CHOGM in an official capacity, which makes an absolute mockery of the Commonwealth secretary-general’s statement that the meeting is an opportunity to find “paths to peace”. Values, as we all know, can only be demonstrated by action, or as Gandhi put it:
“Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.”
In Sri Lanka’s case, we are yet to get beyond warm words. Ministers seem to think that soothing rhetoric will be enough to reassure us that justice will happen one day.
My point is that paying lip service to the key principles of human rights and the rule of law is neither here nor there. The leaders of 54 countries will not be heading to a country that embodies the shared values and principles of the Commonwealth this November; they will be travelling to what is fast becoming a pariah state that embodies neither Commonwealth values nor Commonwealth goals.
Of course, some people will say that the attack on my constituent and his partner is an isolated incident, but that is not true. Attacks on European tourists are increasing and there is grave concern among diplomats about the safety of foreign nationals, particularly women travelling alone. Equally disturbing are the attacks on journalists. In the past month, the British journalist Faraz Shauketaly, who works for The Sunday Leader, was shot in his own house by unidentified gunmen. A few years before, the editor of that newspaper, which is known for its exposés of corruption in the country, was killed. Too many Sri Lankan journalists have been killed or have gone into exile, and the country has a terrible press freedom record, languishing near the bottom of the press freedom index compiled by Reporters Without Borders.
The purpose of the debate is not only to shine a light on how the Sri Lankan justice system is failing properly to investigate the murder of a British tourist, but to honour the memory of Khuram Shaikh, who was a well respected member of our community and a valuable and committed member of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement. Understandably, his death has caused untold grief for his family, and I know that his father makes the trip to his grave every day.
Although Khuram achieved a lot in his life and tributes have been paid to him from across the world, he was only 32 when he was killed, and he should have had many years ahead of him. His death has left a huge gap in the lives of those who knew him, and I am grateful to have had the opportunity to introduce a debate that adds to the tributes for Khuram. I am sure the Minister will agree that every necessary step must now be taken by the British Government and others to press Sri Lanka to do more to protect tourists, so that others do not meet the same fate.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) on securing this debate and on conveying to us the human tragedy and agony behind the statistic of the murder of a UK national abroad. I also pay tribute to the force and the manner of his description of the case, the circumstances of which make for powerful listening and reading. I hope his speech gets wide distribution. I am also grateful for the contributions of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes).
I applaud the long-standing commitment of the hon. Member for Rochdale to securing justice following the brutal murder of his constituent, Khuram Shaikh, in 2011, and I welcome the opportunity to bring attention not only to that tragic case but to the wider circumstances that have been described. It is no secret that the United Kingdom has a number of concerns about progress in Sri Lanka, a country with which we have long and very strong ties but about which we have everyday worries that are shared by a number of other nations. One of our dearest wishes is that balance and equilibrium are restored to our relationship with Sri Lanka by those issues’ being addressed, but that is not what we currently see.
It is important to note that we have a long-standing and strong relationship with Sri Lanka. Our close ties are formed through history, educational links and culture, as well as the Sri Lankan community in the United Kingdom, which contributes so much to our rich and diverse culture. We value those links, which we are determined to maintain.
A key link, of course, is tourism. UK citizens accounted for more than 10% of tourists visiting Sri Lanka last year. Even in these tough times, tourists are making a significant contribution to the Sri Lankan economy. Together with Sri Lankan citizens, they deserve to know that they can rely on the Sri Lankan authorities to keep them as safe as tourists in any other part of the world. They also deserve a swift investigation, with the perpetrators being apprehended and brought swiftly to justice in a fair and transparent trial, should any crime be committed against them.
Unfortunately, the events highlighted by the hon. Gentleman today have served to undermine that trust. The horrific murder of Khuram Shaikh has gone untried for 15 months, bringing further grief and frustration to those closest to him. Of course, justice can take time, which we all understand, but in this case we were encouraged by the quick arrest of the suspects and the Sri Lankan Government’s early assurances that such a brutal crime would be investigated quickly and thoroughly, and that all guilty parties would be sentenced appropriately.
No trial has yet started, and the suspects, the most prominent of whom is a local politician, have been released on bail, which is extremely disappointing. There is a growing perception that the guilty parties may escape justice due to political connections, despite repeated pleas from Khuram Shaikh’s family and the British high commission in Colombo. I welcome the recognition of the work of our high commissioner and his team. It will be reported back to him. There is a sense, 15 months after this heinous crime, that those who deserve to be put on fair trial for their actions might escape justice. We sincerely hope that that is not the case, and that the accused will soon face a swift trial, free from political interference.
I was able to raise Khuram Shaikh’s case with the Sri Lankan Foreign Minister during my visit to the country in January, as well as in a meeting with the Sri Lankan high commissioner in London on 23 January. During my meeting with the high commissioner, I was advised that progress would be made within three months. I trust the high commissioner and the Foreign Minister, and expect to hear soon of progress on the case. The British Government, along with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, will monitor closely the progress of investigations in the coming weeks, in the hope that those assurances will lead to the justice that the Shaikh family so deserve. It is unfortunate that senior members of the Sri Lankan Government did not meet with the hon. Member for Rochdale or with Khuram Shaikh’s brother, Nasir Shaikh, during their recent visit to Sri Lanka to press the case further.
We are concerned about the possibility of increased attacks on and threats to our tourists abroad. Our travel advice recognises an increase in sexual and gang violence in Sri Lanka. We condemn all instances of violence. They must be investigated, and those responsible brought to justice with a swift and fair trial. We advise any visitor abroad to read the travel advice on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website. It is kept up to date. It is accurate, factual and not used for any political purpose; it honestly describes the situation there. It will change to reflect circumstances and the UK Government’s concerns about UK citizens travelling abroad. The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to it. We draw the attention of tour operators and others to our travel advice, and we hope that people accept it and understand what it implies.
Turning to wider issues mentioned by hon. Members, Khuram Shaikh’s tragic case is, regrettably, not our only concern about justice in Sri Lanka. Hon. Members have spoken eloquently about other concerns. We are clear that judicial independence should be a principle at the heart of all free countries. Since the impeachment of Sri Lanka’s Chief Justice in January, many feel that that principle has been fatally compromised, which is why we and others, such as the International Commission of Jurists and the UN, have expressed deep concern at the impeachment. We are disappointed that the Sri Lankan Government continued with the process despite objections from Sri Lanka’s highest courts and outcry from its own citizens.
The Sri Lankan Government have defended the impeachment, stating that the process was constitutional and followed due procedure, but many eminent legal authorities, in Sri Lanka and overseas, have given a contrary view. We also note that when the legal experts of the International Bar Association’s Human Rights Institute planned to visit Sri Lanka to investigate the impeachment, they were denied visas by the Sri Lankan Government. Such actions do not inspire confidence in the claims that the process would stand up to further scrutiny.
Of course, our concerns about the situation in Sri Lanka do not end with justice issues. The long conflict in Sri Lanka ended in 2009 with the defeat of the brutal Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. After such a devastating period in their history, we believe that all Sri Lankans deserve lasting peace, justice and reconciliation. Following the end of the conflict, the 2011 report by the UN Secretary-General’s Panel of Experts on Accountability in Sri Lanka found credible allegations that both sides violated international humanitarian law during the conflict. More recent work such as the Human Rights Watch report and footage from a new documentary about the final days of the conflict have also brought to international attention important information supporting allegations of abuses.
We have consistently called for an independent, thorough and credible investigation into the allegations. Until such an investigation takes place, it will be difficult for the Sri Lankan people to move forward. We are clear that all allegations must be investigated, whether committed by the LTTE or Government forces, and that those responsible must be brought to justice. We believe that fully addressing and condemning events of the past is crucial to ensuring that justice is done and that Sri Lanka can begin to look forward, not back, but so too are wider measures recommended by Sri Lanka’s own Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Commission. In order to ensure that the dividend of peace can be enjoyed by all Sri Lankans, it is vital that the Sri Lankan Government make concrete progress in implementing the recommendations, which include investigation of alleged extra-judicial killings and disappearances and implementation of a mechanism to resolve land disputes impartially.
We recognise that the path to justice and reconciliation, particularly after such a bitter conflict spanning generations and affecting so many, will be long. It is also important for us to recognise that the Sri Lankan Government have made some progress. I saw the situation for myself during my visit to Sri Lanka in January. Infrastructure had been rebuilt, and I saw roads being repaved in the northern area. I also heard from non-governmental organisations about extensive de-mining work done in former conflict zones. We recognise and welcome such progress. We also recognise that there are obstacles to progress in some areas, and that the way forward will never be clear of stumbling blocks. Much more work is needed to guarantee a stable future for Sri Lanka and ensure justice for all its citizens. The appropriate application of the rule of law is clearly a key factor.
Justice for Tamils
Simon Hughes Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con)
I would like to start by thanking Mr Speaker for allowing this debate on justice for the Tamil people. I would also like to say in the first instance, on my own behalf, but also, I am sure, on behalf of many hon. Friends, that we are sorry, because what we are talking about is trying to get justice for innocent victims who lost their lives—who were raped, who were murdered, who were imprisoned. We cannot bring those lives back, but we can try to get justice.
I am the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on Tamils, and the group recognises that accountability is paramount for a sustainable peace and a meaningful reconciliation for the whole island of Sri Lanka, and for addressing the issues that have arisen not only during and after the conflict but going back many years, all the way back to 1948.
It is now four years since the end of the conflict in 2009, yet I and others believe that there has been no real accountability or mechanism for achieving it, and no meaningful settlements have been put in place. We need to look at the root cause of the conflict in Sri Lanka, in memory of those who lost their lives and for the sake of the children who lost their parents and of the people who even today have not been accounted for. I want to ask the Minister a number of questions on that point. I accept that he will not be in a position to answer some of them, but I want to put them on the record none the less.
At the end of the conflict, many babies and young children disappeared. I fear that I know what happened to them, but their relatives in the diaspora and in Sri Lanka deserve some answers. I have asked the high commission for those answers, and the Minister might be interested to know that it contacted me yesterday, after many months, asking to meet me. I would be happy to do that, as long as it will answer the questions that I and Members in all parts of the House have been asking for many years. We want meaningful answers and we want justice.
I was recently honoured to speak at a United Nations conference on this issue in Geneva. I issued the same apology that I gave the House tonight, not because I feel that this was my fault but because although I and Members of all parties in the House raised the matter with the Government of the day when it was happening, we should all, alas, hang our heads in shame that nothing was done to try to stop the loss of life. Now the United Nations has admitted that it let people down, and that the defences were not in place to stop the atrocities happening.
Different numbers are cited, but we are talking about tens of thousands of innocent people. Those are numbers that we just cannot comprehend. I cannot comprehend innocent women and children being taken out and shot. I cannot comprehend it because it is just not in our psyche; it is not how we would behave and we are not used to seeing others behave in that way. I cannot comprehend the fact that decades after the liberation of the camps following the holocaust, women and children would again be sent to camps. And God forbid that I ever should be able to comprehend it.
I am asking for a meaningful international investigation to be carried out. It is not for me to apportion blame, but somebody is guilty. Somebody committed those atrocities, and people must be brought to justice. Until that happens, it will be difficult to talk about reconciliation and peace. The extra-judicial and arbitrary killing of civilians has continued, people have disappeared, people have been raped and whole areas have been resettled. It is not me saying that; it is the United Nations saying it.
I am not saying who has committed these crimes, but we have seen programmes such as “Sri Lanka’s Killing Fields”, for which I commend Channel 4, and the images of soldiers killing innocent people were also on people’s mobile phones. Those images were there for all to see; they were not invented. I had hoped that there would have been some accountability by now, but I fear that the Government of Sri Lanka are trying to fudge the issue. They appear to be saying, “It’s not me, guv.” Over the decades, we have heard people saying that they were only obeying orders. We all know what that is an echo of, and it is unacceptable.
At this point, I am going to put my speech down. To be honest, some things are so emotional that I do not want to read out a prepared speech. As I said, our minds cannot comprehend some of the atrocities that took place. I keep on talking about justice, and I keep on talking about accountability because those are the necessities of what must be brought forward. To achieve that, I know there is a motion going forward at the United Nations in Geneva, either as we speak or tomorrow. I would like to see that motion made stronger. I know that it is not a motion being put by the Government of Britain. I have every confidence that we will support the motion, but I would like to see it strengthened so that the Sri Lankan Government are held to account.
I must raise the issue of the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting that is due to take place later this year. I know that the Government have made no decision on that, but I ask the Minister to look very carefully at whether the Sri Lankan Government are fit to hold such a meeting. My view is that I do not believe they are.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for initiating further debate on this important subject. Does he agree that the difference between the responsibility of Governments and that of others who are not in government is that Governments take on a responsibility to honour their national and international obligations by virtue of being elected to their posts? Although it is clear that there were abuses of power on both sides in what was effectively a civil war in Sri Lanka and that both sides should be held to account, when it comes to the rights of the future citizens in Sri Lanka, it is the Government who ultimately have to answer for their responsibilities—both in their own interests and those of everybody else.
Mr Scott
My right hon. Friend is totally correct. There is a responsibility on any country that calls itself a democracy or on any country that has elected officials to honour international law and the law of their own country and to address these concerns, which my right hon. Friend, I and others in all parts of the House have raised for many years.
It may interest you to know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that because I have spoken up for justice on this matter, I have been accused on some websites of being “a white tiger”. That is interesting because anyone who knows me knows that I am by nature a coward—it has never let me down—so that is not one of the many things of which I can be accused. Equally, I would find it difficult to fulfil that role because I have never set foot in Sri Lanka; I have fought for the rights of the Tamil people from outside. I have been asked why I have not been to Sri Lanka. Until such time as I would be allowed to visit where I wish to visit, see what I want to see in any area, unfettered and unhindered, there would be no point in my going. I do not want to go on a Government-sponsored trip to see what they want me to see; I want to see the people who are in need of my and others’ assistance, but I do not believe that would happen.
Let me make it as clear as possible that I condemn any acts of terrorism by anybody. However, in looking for justice and reconciliation and looking at the list that the United Nations—again, not me—has provided, it needs to be said that it is very hard to get justice when people are already dead. We have seen on television footage of what the Government of the day did and we have seen clear-cut evidence taken on mobile phones, including by the troops. This evidence is not phoney; it cannot be argued with; and somebody was responsible for it.
Commonwealth Day
Simon Hughes Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I am happy to serve under you, Mr Hollobone. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden (Sir Alan Haselhurst) for not only his introduction to the debate but his work the year round.
I want to make four brief points; first, to commend the Select Committee report and the Government’s positive response to many of the recommendations. As a Parliament, it is good that we understand that the Commonwealth is a vital part of our foreign affairs, that it consists of our oldest friends and that the club of which we are the oldest member—or, the oldest club of which we are a member—is one that we sustain, encourage, build up and support. I have always been a fan of the Commonwealth, not to the exclusion of support for the European Union or the English-speaking world, but because they are all complementary. It plays to our strengths but, under all Governments, we have never given the Commonwealth the priority that it deserves. My first request to the Minister therefore is for the Government, as suggested by the Select Committee report, to look at and beef up our commitment to Commonwealth in all ways and all Departments, to show that we want to be a serious player.
Various areas could be usefully prioritised. In a second, I will come back to one that has already been the subject of a debate, but last week we had a good debate in the main Chamber about the death penalty elsewhere in the world, about the people on death row in India with the return to executions in that country. We could reasonably seek to persuade those Commonwealth countries that still have the death penalty that it is not a necessary part of a law and order policy, which is better without it. To work with our friends in India and other countries would be helpful. We also need to persuade other countries such as Uganda that persecuting homosexuals is not appropriate for a Commonwealth Government. We need to ensure the right support for people of all backgrounds, colours, castes, faiths, sexes and sexuality, irrespective of where in the Commonwealth they come from. I am also keen that we elaborate and clarify our commitment to the educational exchanges which have been touched on for students from Commonwealth countries. We have cut back on Commonwealth student scholarships, which is a short-sighted failure, because building up historic links that have been present for a long time is hugely important.
Secondly, I want to say a word about Sri Lanka. I greatly appreciate the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham), recently a Minister in the FCO. We cannot be supportive of the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting going on in Sri Lanka without a sea change in the attitude of the Sri Lankan Government. I do not have an antipathy to Sinhalese people, a Sinhalese Government or a Sinhalese President but clearly, over the years, the minority communities and in particular the Tamils have been ill served. Tests include the disappearance and assassination of journalists, one of the lowest rated categorisations for press freedom in the world and an inability for foreign countries and agencies such as the UN or the Red Cross to be present in the country freely. Sri Lanka has to change. I know the FCO position and that we are withholding our engagement, but unless there is significant change our response needs to be stronger.
Thirdly, I have had a long interest in Cyprus. I congratulate President Anastasiades on his recent election as the President of Cyprus. There is an opportunity to resolve the half-century of dispute over Cyprus—in effect, since its independence from the United Kingdom. There is good will in the north, in the unrecognised Government of northern Cyprus, and I hope for huge encouragement from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
Finally, I have a request that the Minister knows is coming: the Commonwealth Youth Exchange Council, in which I have had a part over the years, has lost its funding from the British Council and needs about £100,000 a year in public support to keep it going. It does great work and changes the lives of thousands; I hope that the FCO will find a way to support it continuing into the future.
Death Penalty (India)
Simon Hughes Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I join others in thanking the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) for initiating this valuable debate. Like the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) and every other Member who has spoken, I regard myself as a friend of India. I have been privileged to go there twice, and would have gone again this month had not a certain by-election and other distractions forced me to postpone my third visit.
India is a wonderful country. One of the things that is so great about it is that it is not only the largest democracy in the world, but a democracy that has devolved power to its states. It is also very diverse, and it is a place where many faiths, and none, are equally valid, respected, enjoyed and appreciated. It is a melting pot: in my experience, it is the only place in the world, apart from Israel and Palestine in the middle east, where so many different strands of culture, history and faith come together.
We have come here with that attitude, but some of us have come here with, also, a lifelong commitment to fighting the death penalty. I held that position and argued that case before I entered the House, and have continued to do so throughout my time here. I first joined Amnesty International when I was at university, and campaigned on cases individually. I was in Amnesty’s Southwark group before I was elected, and we made representations to Governments around the world asking them not to exercise the death penalty.
For many of us, this is part of a traditional campaign. I pay tribute to the Members who have spoken so far, and spoken extremely well. The right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) made a very effective contribution, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller). We heard an intervention from the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), who is no longer in the Chamber, and I also greatly appreciated the contribution of my friend the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton), with whom I travelled to India a couple of years ago.
Several of my colleagues, including my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward), have signed the motion that we are discussing. For obvious reasons, some of my colleagues are not present in as large numbers as they might be, and they send their apologies. As the deputy leader of my party, I want to associate them with the motion. I should mention my right hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake), my hon. Friends the Members for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) and for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland), my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell), my hon. Friends the Members for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart), for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid), for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) and for Solihull (Lorely Burt), my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming)—who is present, and who intervened briefly earlier—my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), and my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), who has campaigned against the death penalty for many years.
It is good that this is not the only occasion on which the issue of the death penalty has been raised this week. A number of questions about it were asked in the other place, including one from Lord Low which specifically concerned the death penalty in India and which was answered by Baroness Warsi on behalf of the Government.
I welcome my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, who has already contributed to the debate. I do not want to make a long contribution myself, but I do want to make a few comments about the logic of the case that we are making to the Indian Government—while respecting the Indian Parliament and Government, and the office of President—before asking the Minister some questions and suggesting ways in which we might proceed. I realise that the Minister will not make another speech today, but I would appreciate it if he could think about those points, and reply later to me and to my colleagues.
I understand why countries have the death penalty, I understand why countries have had the death penalty, as we did until relatively recently, and I understand the difficulty of moving from having the death penalty to not having it. Not having the death penalty looks like a sign of weakness, and may be thought to make it more likely that people will commit serious offences and “get away with them”. I understand that events such as those of the 1980s involving the golden temple, for example, have led to a culture in which it is felt that people must not be allowed to get away with activities of that kind. I understand how terrible terrorism is, in India as in this country and anywhere else, and I understand why people who are involved in and convicted of terrorism are thought to be in need of the ultimate punishment.
However, we should also reflect on the fact that, since India gained independence in 1948, the death penalty has not deterred such people. It did not prevent any of the events of the 1980s, and it did not prevent the events referred to by the Minister when he was in India only the other day. Bomb blasts, revenge killings and assassinations have continued, as they have in other countries where the death penalty operates. The hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar made the telling point that Europe, where most countries do not have the death penalty, is the safest place in the world. There is no link between a lack of crime and the death penalty. Indeed, according to the most recent evidence that I have seen, in the United States of America the states with the death penalty generally do not have a lower rate of crime than those without it.
John Hemming
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the key aspect of deterrence is detecting and identifying criminals, rather than the nature of the punishment?
Simon Hughes
It is—as is ensuring that justice is done and is seen to be done, and that justice is done promptly.
A real problem for our friends in India, and for the Government of India, is that justice has often ground to a halt there. That is not just my view. The other day a bench of the Supreme Court in India spoke of how slow the processes are, and in January last year a Supreme Court bench said that people’s faith in the judiciary was dwindling at an alarming rate, posing a grave threat to constitutional and democratic governance of the country. It acknowledged serious problems such as the large number of vacancies in trial courts, the unwillingness of lawyers to become judges, and an inability to fill the highest posts. Dealing with the backlog in the courts is one of the difficulties in India, although it is not unique to that country; we have been dealing with it in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
There are matters that need to be addressed—matters that can be addressed—which could change the culture in India and give people more confidence. There is, for instance, the need to deal with corruption, which is sometimes a problem in our own country. We have just seen an officer of the Metropolitan police convicted of corrupt activities. Like other Members who have spoken, I am not trying to pretend that we are perfect. However, corruption needs to be dealt with in India and other countries where it undermines democratic values and principles and international credibility. I agree with those colleagues, including the hon. Member for Slough, who have said that if India—its Prime Minister and President—were brave enough to move to abolishing the death penalty, they could be the leaders in their part of the world. They could change the culture of other, smaller democratic countries and later, we would hope, of currently non-democratic countries such as China, so that they could all move on and we would end up not with 110 or 111 countries voting in the UN against the death penalty, but with the remaining countries understanding that there is a better way to proceed—that there is a better and fairer way to punish people.
The ultimate argument is this: not only is it not a deterrent to have the death penalty, but, as the right hon. Member for Warley said, it is a final solution which all too often through history has proved to be wrong. If an injustice is done and the convicted person has been in prison for 20 years, that is terrible but at least they can come out and enjoy the rest of their life, but if there is an injustice and the person is executed, it is too late to undo that, of course.
I want to make the specific case for people like Professor Bhullar and Balwant Singh Rajoana, as I did when I was last in India. I add my voice to those of others calling for the relatively new President of India to return to the moratorium his predecessor followed. I hope that can be a first, or interim, stage before abolition. I understand, too, that having people on death row is a dreadful and inhumane punishment, so a moratorium is not an adequate answer, and I hope that, collectively, we can help India understand the arguments for moving forward.
I have a specific proposal. Later this year there is to be a Commonwealth Heads of Government conference. It is currently scheduled to be held in Colombo, although that is controversial and has been the subject of discussion. Ministers have recently been to Sri Lanka, and our country has rightly not decided what level of representation we will give because of recent human rights issues in Sri Lanka. I assume that there will be such a conference this autumn, however, either in Sri Lanka or somewhere else, and I would like our Government to see whether we can put on its agenda the remaining issues to do with the death penalty in Commonwealth countries, and see whether that could be linked with questions of justice and the speed of justice. I ask the Minister to discuss that with his colleagues, including the Foreign Secretary.
There is a commonality of interest. I do not come to this debate because I have a huge number of Sikh constituents. In fact, I have very few constituents of Indian origin. I have no gurdwaras or temples in my constituency, but I have a large Muslim community and large Roman Catholic Irish and Latin American communities, as well as the largest African community in Britain. Although I have no constituency interest, however, I have worked a great deal with the Sikh and other minority communities in India, and the Commonwealth needs to step up to the plate and do better in making sure these issues are on the Commonwealth agenda. I would like Her Majesty’s Government to put failures of justice and the issue of the death penalty on the agenda this year.
I also ask Ministers to reflect on how we might be more effective more immediately, in the UN Human Rights Committee meeting in Geneva which will take place in the next few weeks, and on whether we might take forward further initiatives there. Sri Lanka is on its agenda, and we might be able to ensure that these death penalty issues are addressed at it, too.
It would be helpful to keep these issues at the top of the EU priority list, too, but not in an old empire way, but because it is good to seek to work with our friends in all countries of the world, as well as our friends in the Commonwealth. The Minister told us he raised these issues when he was in India with the Prime Minister and the UK delegation last week, but it would be helpful to know whether the Prime Minister raised them in his meeting with the Prime Minister of India or with other Ministers. If he did not, would he be willing to do so, because I am sure the increasingly good and frequent links between UK Ministers and Indian Ministers would allow the point to be put respectfully? I also ask Ministers to reflect on whether, irrespective of the Commonwealth conference, there might be an initiative from the UK and other Commonwealth countries asking the Indian Government to return to the moratorium while these issues are under consideration.
May I end by making one final suggestion through you, Mr Deputy Speaker? The Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the Inter-Parliamentary Union can be influential on occasions, and you, as well as Mr Speaker and his other deputies, can be influential in that regard. There may be a case for a parliamentary initiative. Will you, Mr Deputy Speaker, speak to Mr Speaker and your colleagues about whether we and other Commonwealth Parliaments might seek to convene a gathering or conference on this matter, perhaps to be hosted here, or in India? There is an opportunity for this Parliament and the Indian Government and Parliament and the Commonwealth to be seen to be taking the initiative. I hope this debate does not merely flag up our concerns and our desire to change things; rather, I hope it is a stepping-stone to more practical interventions, so that there can be this change in the largest democracy in the world in the very near future.
Mr Ward
My right hon. Friend has been more disciplined than I was in keeping to the issue of the death penalty. I am sure he would agree, however, that even if it were to be abolished in India, many other human rights abuses are taking place in that country that also need to be addressed.
Simon Hughes
That is true, and I do not want to back away from that at all. When I visited India with my friend, the hon. Member for Leeds North East, and other parliamentary colleagues, we saw the Tibetan community in exile. Before that, I had been to Punjab and, for the first time, to Indian-occupied Kashmir—or Kashmir in India—and I had been to Amritsar and the golden temple, and had the same wonderful spiritual experience others have talked about.
There are, indeed, big human rights issues. There is a job for the International Commission of Jurists, Justice and many of us to do to try to make sure democratic Governments uphold the standards we sign up to and that they sign up to documents such as the Rome statute and the UN convention against torture, which are referred to in the motion. I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention, therefore.
There is work to be done, and this is a very serious matter. Some colleagues may wonder why some of us are here in the Chamber today, rather than in Eastleigh. I hope people understand that although by-elections are, of course, important, trying to change the way one of our best friends deals with justice is at least as important. When this debate ends, I will go and do my duty in Eastleigh.
Europe
Simon Hughes Excerpts(11 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Hague
Despite having played a considerable role in the last coalition discussions, I can say that we are not actually planning coalition discussions for two years’ time. We plan, as most parties do, though not the right hon. Gentleman’s party, to win a majority in the House of Commons. The Prime Minister has made the position on the matter clear. That is something that we would absolutely want to proceed with in any Parliament where we held office. Talking of which, let me give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes).
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I pay tribute to the Foreign Secretary for his role in the coalition Government and the work that he has done. Is not the strength of this country, past and present as well as future, that we are part of the continent of Europe, where we want to lead, that we increasingly have an English-speaking world, where we can lead, and that we have an empire, now an expanding Commonwealth, where there are huge opportunities? We are best placed if we exploit all three opportunities and do not suggest uncertainty about our commitment to any one of them.
Oral Answers to Questions
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Mr Hague
We do a great deal of that in our bilateral relations. This work was started under the previous Government—I pay tribute to that—and it continues in the current Government. I think we are foremost among Foreign Ministries in promoting the recognition of climate change and the need to act on it within other countries around the world. We have done a lot of that in China and do a lot of it in Brazil and many other emerging economies, so that work has the continued energy that we have all put into it over the past few years.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
As a warm Commonwealth friend and ally to Pakistan, what is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s assessment of the present political difficulties in that very important country in the region?
Mr Hague
Pakistan has many political controversies and difficulties, even by our own standards, but it is approaching an election with the prospect of this being the first democratically elected Parliament and Government in the history of Pakistan that can be succeeded by another democratically elected Parliament and Government. That will be an important milestone in the history of Pakistan, so although many controversies swirl around, we must maintain our robust support for the institutions of a democratic Pakistan. We always make that very clear.
Sri Lanka
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Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I thank you for your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone.
I appreciate the initiation of this debate by the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh). I remind some colleagues, who I think have forgotten, that the subject of the debate is Sri Lanka and the UN responsibility to protect. As the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) said, I have taken an interest in the subject during all my time in the House—not because I have a significant number of Sri Lankan, Tamil or Sinhalese constituents, but because I am a human rights lawyer and I think minority rights need to be protected.
I have been to Sri Lanka, and I paid for myself—I had political meetings some years ago. I was not allowed to go everywhere I wanted to go, particularly in the north. I regularly engage with Sri Lankan Ministers and high commissioners, sometimes very frustratingly, when they have been in this country. I am a co-founder of the all-party group on conflict issues. I have worked with the Royal Commonwealth Society and the Elders to ensure that young people from both communities have gone to Sri Lanka.
I found the civil war one of the most depressing, frightening and unhappy periods of my time in the House. I was with the Tamil community out on Parliament square pretty much every day, and I arranged to go with them to the White House to try to get the US to press the UN and the Sri Lankan Government. They met the Commonwealth secretary-general and the leader of the European Foreign Affairs Council. I had a conversation with the UN and the Tamils, and the UN was unable to do anything; it failed abysmally. The UN agreed in 2005 that there should be a responsibility to protect, but it did not do any protecting. The UN pulled out, which was absolutely scandalous and shameful. The UN proved itself to be a totally ineffective organisation at that time.
My interest now is to ensure that the UN learns those lessons, with the UK’s help, and that the Sri Lankan Government learns those lessons, too, because Sri Lanka is not yet a wonderful democracy. Sri Lanka is nepotistic, as has been described. Disappearances have not been explained. Sri Lanka has one of the worst records for journalistic freedom in the world on all objective indices. Assassinations have happened, and no one has been brought to trial for them. Not all people are allowed to go back to their own community, and I say that not because I am pro-Tamil and anti-Sinhala—I am a member of both all-party groups—but because, so far, minorities have not had an equal opportunity to play a part in Sri Lanka.
I know the commitment of my hon. Friend the Minister to peacekeeping and bridge-building from our work together over the years.
Given that the UN set up its panel of experts, which reported to Ban Ki-moon in November 2012, and given that the UN Human Rights Council agreed a resolution in Geneva—we supported that resolution, which will come back for assessment this spring—what are we doing to ensure that the UN responsibility to protect means something in future? That responsibility does not yet mean something, and an amendment to the way that the Security Council and the UN work is needed.
What will we do in Geneva in the next few weeks to ensure that the accountability that was sought is implemented? What do we do to ensure that the Sri Lankan Government are held to account for war crimes? There were war crimes on both sides, but Governments have a particular responsibility not to commit war crimes, and they need to be held to account.
What will we do about the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting? It should not have been agreed to hold it in Colombo. Unless Colombo shows that it is moving in a fundamentally different direction, the UK should not support the Commonwealth, which has been weak on the issue, or endorse the Commonwealth’s support for the regime by its presence in Colombo. That would not be the right approach for the British Government. I hope that the Minister will be robust. We need Britain to be robust, in the interests of everybody in Sri Lanka and of a successful future for Sri Lanka as a whole.
Oral Answers to Questions
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Mr Swire
I can certainly give the hon. Lady that assurance. Trade is one part of what we are doing, as I have attempted to outline this morning. We believe in trade because, by engaging in it, we can form relationships and show the people of Burma what future they can have. However, that we are trying to increase our bilateral trade does not mean for a moment that we will ignore our drive for increased human rights and the recognition of different ethnic groups in Burma. I shall make those points to all the politicians I meet there. Indeed, I have made those points to the Burmese politicians I have already met.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
2. What his Department’s priorities for the middle east are in 2013.
The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague)
My priority for the middle east is to support peace and stability by urging the United States, with the strong and active support of the EU, to take a decisive lead in pushing the peace process forward; ending the violence in Syria; securing a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear question; and supporting democratic transitions in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya.
Simon Hughes
I thank the Foreign Secretary for his commitment to those matters. Those of us who for the whole of our adult lives have been supporters of the state of Israel and of a state for Palestine were pleased by the decision of the United Nations last week, but dismayed by the response of the Israeli Government, who suggested that settlements should be built to the east of Jerusalem, effectively separating the two parts of the west bank. What does the Foreign Secretary think is the best way of getting the message through to the Israeli Government that that is neither the way to win friends nor the way to win peace?
Mr Hague
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right in everything that he has just said. We summoned the Israeli ambassador to the Foreign Office yesterday to hear exactly that message from the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), who has responsibility for the middle east. If implemented, the plans that were announced on Friday would alter the situation on the ground on a scale that would make the two-state solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital almost inconceivable, or certainly very difficult to implement. Much as we had misgivings, for some of the same reasons, about pressing for a resolution at the United Nations, we think that that was the wrong way for Israel to react. That message is coming loud and clear from all around Europe and the United States.
Mr Hague
I think that we were right to argue that pressing a resolution at the United Nations at this juncture—at this very moment—could lead to fresh complications, that we were right to argue that its amendment would have mitigated the consequences, and that we are right to argue now that Israel should not expand settlements on occupied land. All those positions are, I believe, correct.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
T4. Do Ministers consider it a possibility that next year it could be a UK Government priority and a European Union priority to seek to end the division of Cyprus once its new President has been elected in February, given the good will that I understand exists in both communities in Cyprus—in part—in Turkey, and, I hope, in Greece?
The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)
I certainly hope that that will prove possible, but clearly a major new initiative must await the outcome of the Cypriot presidential election in February. I hope that whoever is elected will set ambitious goals, working with Turkish Cypriot leaders, the guarantor powers, the United Nations and others to bring about a settlement that would be profoundly in the interests of all communities on the island.
Palestinian Resolution (United Nations)
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Mr Hague
After my discussions with Secretary Clinton yesterday, I think there is a good understanding of the strength of view across the world, including in countries such as ours as well as in other European countries, and of the urgency of the matter. It is very important for that understanding to be shared across the American system. I have worked closely with Secretary Clinton over the past two and a half years, but she intends to depart office as Secretary of State in the coming weeks. This will be the No. 1 item we discuss with the incoming Secretary of State of the United States; indeed, I have already discussed it with some of the people who might become Secretary of State. It has been prominent among our discussions with President Obama, and the Prime Minister and I have both put the point strongly to the President. The understanding is there in the United States but we now need to help them translate it into real action.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I pay a great tribute to the Secretary of State for not only ensuring that this is a UK Government foreign policy priority but trying to ensuring that it becomes a second-term American Administration foreign policy priority. On the difficult issue he has addressed of the ICC jurisdiction, I understand exactly what he is trying to do. Is it his hope not that the ICC should not have a jurisdiction but that if the Palestinians and Israelis come to the table for peace talks, the question of the ICC can be parked for a time so that the attempt to get a peace deal is not skewered by sending the question to courts that would take much longer to resolve it?
Mr Hague
My right hon. Friend is right, of course, about the second-term priorities. Given the urgency of the situation and given that from January the Israeli elections will have taken place and the United States will be at the beginning of a second-term Administration, if we are not going to address and resolve the problem then, when on earth will we ever do so? We see this question as very important for the re-elected US Administration. He is also right about the ICC and that is what we are saying. We are saying not that anyone should be exempt from the ICC for the long-term future, but that since a negotiation must succeed everybody has to accept some things that are temporary or unpleasant. We had our own experience of that—many hon. Members have much experience of it—in the Northern Ireland peace process. We had to do things we were very reluctant to do but that were necessary to bring about a settlement. That is true in the middle east, too.