Agricultural and Business Property Reliefs: OBR Costing

Debate between Simon Hoare and James Murray

Thursday 23rd January 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The party opposite—in fact, the parties opposite—routinely support the Government’s spending and investment decisions but will not support any of the difficult decisions we have to take to fund them.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

The weight of public and business opinion is not with the Minister on this issue, and the body of expert opinion speaking out against this tax proposal is now overwhelming. The Minister is a kindly man, so I wonder if he will indulge me. What would he be saying if he were in opposition and that weight of opinion was being expressed against a Conservative Government’s Treasury policy?

[James Murray]

The hon. Gentleman is a kindly man, too. I value the conversations that he and I have had outside the Chamber. People looking at this policy, and all our policies in the Budget, will recognise that we had to take difficult decisions, and will understand the context: our inheritance from the previous Government. We recognise the toughness of those decisions—they were not easy to make—but we prioritise balancing the public finances and economic stability, because that is how we get investment in growth, which our country so badly needs.

Finance Bill

Debate between Simon Hoare and James Murray

Committee of the whole House
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

Local authorities and schools already have processes in place to support pupils who move between schools at any point in the academic year. Analysis carried out by the Department for Education under the previous Government suggests that each year, almost 60,000 secondary school moves take place not at normal transition points or over the school holidays. We fully expect the majority of moves to take place at natural transition points or in the school holidays, rather than within the school year.

I have been clear that ending these tax breaks for private schools has been a difficult decision, but it is necessary to secure additional funding that will help us to fulfil the commitments we made to improving education for all.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

The Minister continually refers to tax breaks. They are not tax breaks. Why can he not just be honest with the House and admit that this is the first time that any Government in a civilised democracy has imposed a tax on learning and education?

[James Murray]

Let me explain to the hon. Gentleman how public finances work. Funding a tax relief or a tax break is equivalent to public spending, because it is money that cannot be spent on something else. The Conservatives have committed, through their new leadership, to repealing this policy if they win the next general election. That implies cutting state education—cutting the investment in education for all that we are prioritising.

[Simon Hoare]

rose—

[James Murray]

I will not give way because I am making a clear point. We have to make choices in politics about what to prioritise. We have said that the VAT tax break for private school fees is not something that we want to prioritise. We want to spend that money instead on improving state education for all children.

[Simon Hoare]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way a second time, and I am so grateful for the public finance lesson. Surely he has to accept that as no tax is placed on learning in any sector in the educational landscape across the United Kingdom, this measure is not a tax break. It is not that there is a tax break for one sector while others have a tax imposed. This is an imposition of a new tax in the educational sphere. It is not a tax break because no educational establishment pays VAT.

[James Murray]

Given the record of the Conservatives over the past 14 years, I do not think it is ridiculous to assume that they might need some education on how public finances work, with the mess that we inherited and the desperate need for us to restore fiscal responsibility to public finances. Restoring that fiscal responsibility requires us to take decisions that are difficult but necessary to raise the finances to fund our priorities. We have taken the decision that we will not support a VAT exemption for private school fees and that we will invest the money that we raise in state education to ensure that the aspirations of every parent across this country can be fulfilled. That is a decision I will defend every time I am in this Chamber.

Farming and Inheritance Tax

Debate between Simon Hoare and James Murray

Wednesday 4th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I reassure the right hon. Gentleman, for whom I have a lot of respect personally, that we carefully considered how to calibrate the policy to ensure that significant relief from inheritance tax is still available to family farms, while at the same time fixing the public finances in as fair a way as possible.

[Simon Hoare]

I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. He has just referred to his analysis of four years of data which led him and the Government to this position. That is an incredible thing to ask the House to believe, because just a few months ago his right hon. Friends the now Prime Minister and Secretary of State were specifically ruling out these policies to audiences of farmers and landowners. If the data of four years’ standing told him that this was the right policy, why were those now Ministers economical with the actualité when they spoke to the farmers themselves?

[James Murray]

The data we did not have before the general election was the £22 billion black hole that the hon. Gentleman’s party left in the public finances. He knows that, because it is acknowledged by the Office for Budget Responsibility that the full information was not shared with it. It has said that its forecast would have been “materially different” had it known that that was the case. We have had to take a number of difficult decisions.

VAT: Independent Schools

Debate between Simon Hoare and James Murray

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I have made clear the reason why we are proceeding with this policy to a January 2025 date, which is that we want to raise the money as soon as possible to invest in our improvements to state education. There will have been five months for parents and schools to prepare for the change.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

[James Murray]

I am still responding to the hon. Member for Hinckley and Bosworth (Dr Evans), so please let me come back to that point. HMRC is putting in place bespoke guidance, and it is standing by to make sure that schools are properly registered for the change. All the evidence we have seen from the IFS and so on suggests that the impact on the state sector will be very small, which means that it will not have a material effect on children’s education.