Oral Answers to Questions

Simon Hart Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I heard the hon. Gentleman’s leader on the radio the other day saying that he was tempted to speak to the students. When asked why he did not, he said that he had something in his diary—it must have been staring at a blank sheet, which takes an enormous amount of time, does it not?

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

T5. Could the Deputy Prime Minister update us on his plans for introducing a register of lobbyists? Does he expect the new chairman of Global Counsel, Lord Mandelson, to be on that register?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

It must be a measure of Lord Mandelson’s confidence in the leadership of the Labour party that he has decided to set up on his own to lobby the Government directly himself. We are indeed moving ahead next year to set up a statutory register of lobbyists.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Simon Hart Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Tristram Hunt]

The hon. Gentleman is of course correct. There will be extra layers and extra opportunities for lawyers to intervene. It was no wonder that Lord Steyn commented in the light of the Hunting Act 2004 that it

“is not unthinkable that circumstances could arise where the courts may have to qualify a principle established on a different hypothesis of constitutionalism”.

I think that in plain English that means they would be interested to get their teeth into the proceedings in this place.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Is the hon. Gentleman talking about a legal challenge to the validity of an Act or, as in the example that he has just given, the validity of the use of the Parliament Act in ensuring that an Act reaches the statute book?

[Tristram Hunt]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point, and his knowledge of the Hunting Act is second to none. I am hinting at the adventurism of justices in critiquing and opening up to judicial review not only the Parliament Act but the proceedings of this place. The fear is that putting these measures into statute will open up the calling of elections from this place. That is what amendment 33 seeks to address.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Simon Hart Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Austin Mitchell]

Parliament will have the power to dissolve Parliament on a two-thirds vote, I think, in this ludicrous legislation, so I am not quite sure what the hon. Gentleman is saying. I am saying that we should legislate for three-year Parliaments, which would be sensible, and I am asking where the five-year term has come from. How did it come into the heads of this Government? Did it spring fully armed from the head of the Prime Minister?

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Austin Mitchell]

I have taken enough interventions for the time being. I want to make a few points of my own instead of being forced to respond to questions about hypothetical situations that I have not dealt with.

The Conservative party did not mention fixed-term Parliaments in its manifesto, but we did: Labour had a fixed four-year term in its manifesto. The Liberals, insofar as they had a position—they always have a lot of contradictory positions—had what the Deputy Leader of the House said when he was their spokesman on constitutional affairs, when he urged four-year terms. Perhaps he has had a message from the new leadership telling him to rescind his speeches from when he was the Liberals’ constitutional affairs spokesman. Will he listen? I know that he is very comfortable on the Front Bench—he is built for it—but there is no need for him to change his views on this issue so radically and dramatically as he seems to have done.

So the Liberals wanted four-year terms, the Conservatives had nothing about it in their manifesto and I argue that five-year terms are too long. I agree that we should have had an election in 2007. That would have meant the Labour Government going much sooner. Why am I proposing three-year terms? The Executive always want longer terms, because they want to be in power for as long as they can and because longer terms allow more time for more mistakes and for tough measures to hit the people. There are certainly some tough measures coming from this Government, which might be why they want a five-year term. Regular and more frequent elections hand power back to the people, which is what the people want. They want us kept on a shorter leash. That is what the feeling of hostility to politics, Parliament, parties and politicians that built up last year indicated to me. Triennial elections would certainly keep us on a shorter leash because we would have to go back to the people more regularly. They are suspicious of us; they think that we are out for ourselves and they want to control us more effectively.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Simon Hart Excerpts

Monday 18th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Redwood]

I agree, and the conclusion is just that: the Electoral Commission should not put out information because that might drag it into the debate. The whole purpose of testing a proposition in a referendum or testing candidates in an election is to allow a free exchange of ideas and views. The two campaigns will, of course, be heavily involved, but there will also be lots of other people, institutions, media representatives and newspapers claiming to be doing impartial analysis on the claims of the two sides. Some of them might even do something that gets close to being an impartial analysis of the claims of the two sides, but they will all discover, as we saw in the last general election, that having something that everybody regards as impartial is an impossibility.

The issue behind this debate may be for the political classes only. I do not think that it is the subject of much discussion in the pubs, clubs or schools of Wokingham, for example, but it is of passionate interest to the political classes. A large number of people now earn their living out of politics one way or another, and they will be watching every word and every sign, in every part of the referendum campaign, to see how it is going and whether it is fair.

I do not think that the Minister is about to give ground on the non-Government amendments in this group. I would therefore urge him to say to the Electoral Commission, ex cathedra, from his pulpit, “We love you dearly. We wish you to be impartial. Hesitate, hesitate and hesitate again before you start to make statements about this highly charged territory.” While there may be 40 million people out there who are not much moved by this subject, there are another 1 million or 2 million who are very moved by it—whose livelihoods depend on it or who are preoccupied by it—who will be watching every word. It will be extremely difficult to come up with that perfect, impartial prose that even describes the system, let alone avoids the obvious pitfall of wandering into opinion. There is nothing more annoying in the heat of an election campaign than for someone to claim impartiality, but then to say something critical of one’s own position, which is what happened in the last general election.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

I would like to bring to my right hon. Friend’s attention a particular difficulty in Wales that may be relevant. On the day that the referendum is taking place, a Welsh Assembly election is also taking place, the vote for which will use yet another system. I wonder whether he has a view on whether we are confusing people even further, and in particular the Electoral Commission, by suggesting that it needs to explain that the subject of the referendum is a different system from that being used when people cast their votes on the same day.

[Mr Redwood]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. A powerful point for the no case in the referendum—the case against a change in our electoral system—is just that: that so many electoral systems are already in use, particularly in Wales and Scotland, that it could become quite complicated for people trying to remember which system they are voting under. If people are voting under a system other than the current, general system for the national election, they may wish to vote more tactically. One feature of AV is that a natural Liberal Democrat voter who wanted to make their party greener might think it a good idea to vote Green for their first preference and to give the Liberal Democrats only their second preference. That would be a perfectly rational strategy for that voter to make their party greener, but they would need to know that they were voting under that system to make doing so sensible.

However, I have wandered a little from my main point, which is that in order to preserve that impartiality, it is better to say nothing. The whole point of an election is to tease out the issues, so that electors can make their own decisions. In the last general election, the different parties made claims, and we then had to watch or listen to the BBC come out with so-called experts who said that they could find the truth, either by saying that it was between the two parties, or by concluding that neither party was telling the truth and then coming up with the BBC truth. This is a free society, and that was probably quite helpful in the election—if that is what turned the BBC on and what it wanted to pay people good salaries to do—but I do not think that many voters think, “Ah! At last I’ve got the impartial truth! The BBC correspondent has told me that Labour weren’t right on this issue and that the Tories weren’t right on that issue, so I now know the truth.” I think that the elector goes off and forms their own judgment.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Simon Hart Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Like many hon. Members, I trawled through the records to see how many of my constituents had raised this matter over the last three or four years. I came to the grand total of one, and sadly, that one has subsequently died, although for completely unconnected reasons.

One point of consensus in the debate is that equalisation has its merits—not everybody is against it—and that it contains an element of fairness that we should try to encapsulate in law. However, it seems that there is also a consensus that we should not replace one form of bias with another and that the measure should not be about winning elections. That idea seems to be taking root, and in fact, the process rather than the principle appears to be the greatest source of concern.

Turning to some examples from where I live in Wales, it takes an hour and 40 minutes—a modest amount of time—to drive from one end of the Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire constituency to another. In Vauxhall, where I live in London, it takes about an hour and 40 minutes to walk across the constituency. By adding 15,000 people to the electorate in the former, we will almost certainly disconnect rural communities from their Member of Parliament slightly more than we should. If we have learned anything in the past 10 years, it is that we should try to connect rural communities, not disconnect them.

In Wales in 2011—I can hardly wait—we have a referendum on AV and one on further powers for the Welsh Assembly, and a Welsh Assembly election, at what cost I do not know. Yet the principle of reducing Welsh MPs by 25%, to which many hon. Members have referred, could be agreed, at least in principle, without any reference to the Welsh nation by 10 o’clock this evening.

Is seems to me that it is simply not sensible to apply a one-size-fits-all solution to a nation that has different social, economic and political values. If we go down the route of the proposals, Welsh Assembly and general elections will actually coincide in 2015, and we might have the slightly confusing situation of using two completely different voting systems along two different boundaries—one for the Welsh Assembly, one for the Westminster election—and, of course, with two languages to contend with at the same time. If that does not pose a problem of definition and understanding, I do not know what does. That must be reflected in the Bill before it is enacted, but it has not been properly addressed in the debate.

Penultimately, on the effect of the alternative vote in Wales, the Deputy Prime Minister said some time ago that the referendum campaign would not be party political. However, it is hard to imagine how that could be so, when he and the Prime Minister are travelling in slightly different directions on the subject. In Wales, we will hold the referendum on the same day as a very party political Welsh Assembly vote. We cannot possibly claim that that will not have some impact on the result. For example, what can the media legally say about the campaign? What can Welsh Assembly candidates say? What can Members of Parliament, who will be asked to comment, say about the AV referendum when we are bound by party political restrictions and will be involved in a party political campaign at the very same time? Will the measures simplify or simply complicate matters for voters? None of these questions have been properly dealt with today.

Last, I wish to address the issue of honesty. Let us not try to fool people about this Bill. Let us not pretend that it is a response to some kind of great public desire or thirst. Let us not pretend that so much money will be saved or that voting will be easier or that an unfortunate whiff of party political interest is not beginning to develop in these measures. But all that does not necessarily mean that the Bill should fail, because it is built on reasonably sensible, sound and fair foundations. It is the process, not the principle to which I object.

We have 649 boundary reviews coming up, which need to be in place, completed, signed, sealed and delivered by 2014, which will create a problem that extends beyond voters. It will impose considerable difficulties on all the political parties represented in this House—in administration, reforming, refunding and selecting new candidates—and will also have a significant bearing on voters.

As we have discovered, there is a fine line between political reform and political vandalism. Those of us who believe in proper political reform will be disappointed if that reform is set back by years if we fail to amend the Bill significantly or take into account some of the important evidence and impassioned speeches that we have heard from all quarters of the Chamber today.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Oral Answers to Questions

Simon Hart Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course I can give the hon. Lady that assurance. Let me first of all congratulate her on her election to this House, and say how much we want to make sure, in spite of the difficult decisions that we have had to make in the Budget, that we go on helping and regenerating communities that face difficulties. I have visited the site in Wigan where the new Lads and Girls club is to be built. That is the result of excellent joint work between the private and public sectors, and we need many more projects like it. We will have more to say about that next week.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Q2. The Prime Minister will be aware of the vital contribution of the 23,000 Territorial Army and other reservists who have fought in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Balkans in the last six years. So far, 22 have lost their lives in those operations, and the ones who survive are twice as likely to get post-traumatic stress disorder than their regular counterparts. What recognition and support can my right hon. Friend give to the thousands of employers who routinely allow staff to volunteer, train and engage in reservist activity and who, by doing so, are critical to our military success in those operations?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the contribution that our Territorial Army plays in serving our country. He is also right to remind us how many people have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are some 600 volunteer reservists serving today. Standing up for our armed forces is not just a Government responsibility: it is a social responsibility, and something that we should all do. We should pay tribute to those businesses that help people to volunteer and take part. We should remember their service in doing that as well.

Constitution and Home Affairs

Simon Hart Excerpts

Monday 7th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

I am grateful to you for calling me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but not half as grateful as my family and friends in the Public Gallery, who I rather naively suggested should be here at half-past two.

I pay tribute to all who have made their maiden speeches today. There was one common theme: each was better than the last—a pattern that I confidently expect to bring to an early closure.

While I am paying tributes, let me mention my predecessor, Nick Ainger. I do not think that, in the 20-odd years for which I knew him, there was a single issue on which we agreed, but that did not mean that we did not hold him in great regard. I know that he was respected in the House, but he was also respected in our part of west Wales, and we wish him well in whatever he plans to do now.

Let me also say what a pleasure it is to enter the House alongside my hon. Friends the Members for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans), and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies). We are a little short of the 15 Welsh Members whom we hoped to tally up with a rugby team just before the election, but I hope we now have a broad rural and urban representation that is relevant—and what we may lack in size in the Vale of Glamorgan, we undoubtedly make up for in age in Montgomeryshire.

I love my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire like a brother, but I hope he will not mind my regretting, just slightly, the loss of Mr Lembit Öpik from the House. Lembit was a good friend of many people, and—let’s face it—he brought a certain colour to proceedings on both the inside and the outside. He was also pioneering unusual coalitions long before they became a habit in the House.

I fully understand why not many Members have ever been to, or in many cases even heard of, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire. It is, after all, quite a long way west. Let me, however, take a few seconds to whet Members’ appetites. There has been a bit of a competition among the new entry about who can paint the juiciest picture of their constituency. I can tell the House that there is more coastline in my part of the world than anywhere else except the Isle of Wight, and that we have 30 beaches, two estuaries, 12 castles, an oil refinery, a power station under construction, and fantastic farming and tourism industries. If all that is too much for Members, we have our own island monastery and two nudist camps—not co-located, I might add.

Dylan Thomas wrote “Under Milk Wood”, while in a sober state, in my constituency, and Gareth Edwards is still as happy catching sea trout and salmon on the River Towy as he ever was scoring tries at the old Arms Park. If the hon. Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) was worried about where the beach scene in Russell Crowe’s recent “Robin Hood” epic was filmed, I can reassure him by saying that it was in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire—and I regret to tell the House that Dobby dies in the sand dunes on Freshwater West beach in the final film in the Harry Potter series, which comes out next year. [Laughter.] I hope that I have not said anything that I should not have said.

It should not be thought that everything is rosy in our particular garden, however. We have the same economic and social problems as any other constituency, which is why today’s debate is so crucial. I was encouraged when the Deputy Prime Minister nodded in the direction of rurality in the context of constitutional reform. People who form just 2% of the electorate cannot help thinking from time to time that their votes may not count for anything at all, and cannot help thinking from time to time that Governments are there to do things to them rather than for them. If we have learned anything at all in rural communities during the election campaign it is that voters have told us that cheaper is not necessarily the same as better in politics, and that quality was raised much more often than cost in our doorstep conversations.

Our voters hope that this new coalition will adopt a less-is-more approach to government and will have at its heart four simple objectives: to keep us safe; to keep us solvent; to keep us healthy; and to keep us free from prejudice and discrimination. Honour and respect for politics and Parliament will be restored only if we apply those simple rules to every single decision we take in this House.