Simon Burns
Main Page: Simon Burns (Conservative - Chelmsford)Department Debates - View all Simon Burns's debates with the Leader of the House
(12 years ago)
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Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow my Friend the Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson). I pay tribute to him for the incredible campaign he has run in support of the workers in his constituency and the skills that have been brought to the country by the decades—over a century—of train manufacturing in Derby. It would be a crime if we lost that. The danger is that, unless the Bombardier contract is issued, there will be further job losses and further loss of train-making skills in this country.
We do not understand or value enough the heritage of the rail industry in this country, the skills involved in train manufacture and railway development, or the future of the industry. Following the closures, we have around 10,000 miles of track. We have a programme of railway network expansion, and more people travel by train than at any time since the second world war. The majority of the public who have access to railways prefer to use them—there is no question about that.
If we involve ourselves in a procurement process that specifically encourages sustainable, local-ish or UK-based employment, we will develop our industrial base and provide great opportunities for railway expansion in this country and other places. However, sadly, the model of privatisation adopted by the Conservative Government in the 1990s not only broke up our railway system but handed all the rolling stock to rather dubious leasing companies. Huge profits were made as a result, but 10 years into privatisation the Department for Transport’s procurement policies have moved much more into a totally market-based international comparator system rather than the system used for Transport for London, which has deliberately sought to develop UK-based employment, and fair wages and employment practices and so on.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr Simon Burns)
If privatisation has been as bad as the hon. Gentleman describes, why, since privatisation, have the number of journeys taken and the number passengers doubled, and why, in 13 years in government, did Labour not seek to reverse it?
Jeremy Corbyn
I had a discussion in 1997 with the then Transport Secretary, Lord Prescott, in which I suggested that we would serve ourselves well if we took the railways back into public ownership. In fact, our discussion took place very close to where the Minister sits now. We were standing next to the mace during a Division—it was an historic moment. His reply was, “We haven’t got the money for that kind of thing. We can’t afford it. It would cost too much”, but the figures show that we are putting more money in subsidy into the private sector-run railways than we ever did into British Rail in the days of public ownership—and the private companies are making considerable profits. The increase in passenger numbers and train services is welcome, as is public investment in railways, but if, for example, we put £8 billion into the west coast main line upgrading, the public should gain the benefit rather than Virgin Trains or another train operating company making a considerable profit.
I support the points made by my Friend the Member for Derby North on fair employment practices. I hope the Minister can give us some good news. I hope he is not befuddled by Siemens’s claim that it is financially sustainable, because a company that owns its own bank is quite likely to claim that—the two things tend to go together—but instead will consider the huge skill base and traditions in Derby. He should also think forward to the electrification programme and the new rolling stock that will be needed in five, 10, 15 and 20 years’ time. We will have problems if we allow our manufacturing capacity to disappear.
My Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), who is in his place, has supported the railway cleaners around the country because of the problems they face. I hope the Minister spares a thought for them. In the midst of all the money that goes into the railway system and the profits that are taken out, some people working for distant contract cleaning companies and others are appallingly paid and badly treated, but nevertheless do important and valuable jobs. Will he say he is in favour of a living wage for everyone working in the railway industry as an absolute basic, and in favour of companies employing station and cleaning staff far more directly?
Virgin Trains has apparently been given a contract to continue running its service because of the collapse of the train operating company tendering process a few months ago. I have five brief questions for the Minister, and I hope he will help us. What discussions were held in the EU prior to awarding the 23-month west coast main line contract to Virgin Trains? Is a copy of the new agreement available? Will existing staffing levels and catering facilities be protected? What taxpayer subsidy will be paid to Virgin for the duration of the contract? Finally, what non-taxpayer or fare payer-supported investment will Virgin Trains make during the 23-month contract? We have reached a pretty pass. The incompetence of the process resulted in a gap, which would have been the ideal opportunity to return the service to public ownership and run it, which is what happens on the east coast main line—a very good service runs on the east coast main line as a result. The east coast main line is a ready-made example of running an effective, publicly owned railway system.
The Minister will not be surprised that my last point is a local one—I have often spoken of the need for a wider system of electrification. I welcome the Government’s announcement that the midland main line and the Great Western service will be electrified, and that there will be an electrified service in Wales. That is very good indeed. I have raised many times the question of the north London link. The Barking to Gospel Oak line is not electrified, which means that electrically hauled freight services from Felixstowe or Harwich must change to a diesel-hauled locomotive, or that the freight must be diesel-hauled all the way through. Proposals for the electrification of the line have been made and costed, and the Secretary of State assured me that the Department was considering that again—he also promised to meet me and a delegation of north London MPs in that respect. Electrification would make London Overground more efficient and effective and be far more environmentally sustainable for heavy-hauled freight that currently uses the line.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr Simon Burns)
I welcome this short debate on transport. Given the shortness of time I have and the wide ranging number of questions raised, particularly by the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), I assure hon. Members that if I do not manage to cover all their points, I will write to them.
To begin with, I should like to deal with two specific issues, the first of which was raised by the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson). As he will accept—he referred to this from time to time during his comments—tough decisions have had to be taken across the board because of the economic deficit we inherited, and support for bus services could not be exempt. This has meant not only getting the best value for every pound of taxpayers’ money spent, but prioritising the spending that can best support growth, jobs and prosperity. That is one of the reasons transport came out of the spending review in a much stronger position than most people expected.
I recognise that public transport is, as the hon. Gentleman eloquently pointed out, important for the sustainability and independence of rural communities. Decisions such as where to run services, the frequency of services, the type of vehicle used and the fares charged are mainly a matter for the commercial judgment of the operator concerned. However, where there is not enough demand for a bus route to be commercially profitable in its own right, local authorities do have powers to subsidise bus services. It is essentially a matter for these individual authorities to decide which services are most appropriate for support in their respective areas. These could be traditional bus services or other, more flexible options such as the Link2 service in Durham—a bookable dial-a-ride bus for people making local journeys of up to five miles for which there is no other suitable bus—and the Access Bus scheme, which provides a similar service for people with limited mobility.
It is for local authorities, working in partnership with their communities, to identify the right transport solutions that meet the economic and environmental challenges faced in their areas and deliver the greatest benefits for their communities. It is heartening to note the proactive role that Darlington and Durham councils have taken to engaging with local people, for instance through the area action partnership boards set up by Durham county council in 2009 as a key way of listening to and working with communities, and the Darlington community partnerships, led by residents, working in partnership with the local authority and other bodies, which take a lead in regenerating their local neighbourhoods. I would also encourage smaller communities such as Hurworth, Sadberge, Middleton St George and Brafferton to continue their excellent work with the Community Transport Association to secure a reliable and affordable local transport network service.
In the past year, the Government have provided £20 million of new funding for distribution to rural local transport authorities in England, of which around £400,000 in total has been allocated to Durham and Darlington councils to support and kick-start the development of community transport services in their areas. In addition, the local sustainable transport fund has provided both areas with a combined total of more than £6 million, specifically for transport related projects.
For reasons that we are all aware of, times are tough and we have to be careful with our money, making sure that we get the best value. But I am pleased about the work that has been done locally by local communities and local authorities in the hon. Gentleman’s area to seek to develop the best forms of sustainable transport with the best value for money available.
I turn now to the final point raised by the hon. Member for Islington North, about the Gospel Oak to Barking scheme, which he has rightly raised on many occasions in the House. I recognise the case for electrification of that line at the same time as we electrify the strategic electric spine route from Southampton to Yorkshire. Transport for London has said it is prepared to pay a share of the Gospel Oak to Barking electrification costs, which I welcome, but the cost is very high—approximately £90 million for 12 miles of railway through suburban London.
We will work with Network Rail, Transport for London and rail freight operators over the coming year to see whether electrification costs might be reduced and to explore ways of funding. The national rail funding for the five years to 2019 has been committed on our strategic priorities, but if further funding can be found and the business case continues to be robust, I would welcome adding another 12 miles of railway to the 850 route miles we have already funded and authorised for electrification this decade. Either my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State or I would be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman and a delegation of Members from north London if that would be useful.
Jeremy Corbyn
I thank the Minister and I look forward to having such a meeting so that we can, I hope, make progress to electrify that last bit of the line.
Mr Burns
In that spirit, I hope that any meetings we have would be positive so that we could make progress.
I now turn to the contribution from the hon. Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson) about rail procurement and Bombardier. The coalition Government are committed to continuing to invest in rail, building on its success and facilitating future economic growth. As he knows, we are investing £18 billion in this spending review period alone on a programme of rail improvements as large in scale as anything seen since the Victorian era. I am aware that the hon. Gentleman, as well as my hon. Friends the Members for South Derbyshire (Heather Wheeler), for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham), for Erewash (Jessica Lee) and for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills) have been active campaigners on behalf of Bombardier, which has a key role in Derby’s economy.
Therefore, I am pleased to be responding to this debate shortly after Southern has announced its intention to exercise an option for 40 additional rolling stock vehicles to be delivered by Bombardier in 2014. Furthermore, Southern is working with the Department to develop proposals for a potential competitive procurement for 116 new vehicles, including options for further vehicles. Ministers expect to be able to make a further announcement on this matter shortly. Bombardier is also among the shortlisted bidders for the Crossrail rolling stock procurement.
These procurements offer Bombardier and other train manufacturers new opportunities to bid for work. The Thameslink rolling stock contract is complex, as the hon. Gentleman understands, and it introduces much greater responsibility for the train’s performance in service on the part of the train manufacturer and maintainer than is traditionally the case. Therefore it has—quite rightly— taken some time to get the details right. Siemens and its partners in Cross London Trains have been working very closely with the Department for Transport to reach commercial agreement on the Thameslink rolling stock project. I am pleased to say that there has been substantive progress in recent weeks and the Department has now reached commercial agreement on the key elements of the deal with the Cross London Trains consortium. Last night the Cross London Trains consortium published its information memorandum to potential funders.
This important milestone enables the next stage of the process of further engagement with the debt market to continue to put the necessary financing in place for the deal. Our target, once the necessary credit approvals have been secured, is to reach financial closure as soon as possible in the new year. I hope that hon. Members will appreciate the importance of the statement I have just made, which is crucial as part of the continuing investment in improving and enhancing the infrastructure and performance of our railways.
In passing, I note that the hon. Gentleman suggested that the same civil servants who were responsible for the franchising deal for the west coast main line were working on the procurement deals, but I can assure him that that is not the case. I hope that that reassures him.
Regarding the Crossrail rolling stock contract, we are clear that our priority is to secure the right train at the right price, through a strong and fair procurement competition. This competition is different from rolling stock procurements such as Thameslink that were launched by the previous Administration. It has taken account of the package of measures to reform public procurement announced in the 2011 autumn statement, and it also includes, for example, the commitment of £350 million of public investment to this £1 billion programme. Four bidders—Bombardier, CAF of Spain, Hitachi and Siemens—have submitted initial bids. Crossrail Ltd is responsible for the procurement and is currently assessing bids received at the end of October.
Chris Williamson
Will the Minister confirm whether credit ratings will be a significant factor in determining the Crossrail contract, and whether there will be an announcement in this Chamber on the financial close of the Thameslink contract?
Mr Burns
On the hon. Gentleman’s second point about the final part of that process, we expect a conclusion early in the new year, though I cannot provide a precise date at this point. On Crossrail, as I said to him earlier, the procurement contract is going ahead and normal processes will be abided by and gone through. It is premature at this stage to start speculating on the detail of future processes, because there is an element of commercial confidentiality and the deals, checks and balances that one would expect from a normal major procurement of this nature.
The Crossrail procurement is the responsibility of Crossrail Ltd. It is currently assessing the bids received at the end of October. I expect that all bidders will have submitted strong, competitive bids that meet the exacting requirements of Crossrail, while providing best value for money for the UK taxpayer and future fare payers. Crossrail and Thameslink will have a transformational impact on travel in London and the south-east. They will significantly boost jobs and growth more widely in the economy. Their benefits are vital and urgently needed, and the Government remain firmly committed to their delivery.
The hon. Member for Islington North mentioned a number of other issues. I will write to him about them, except to say—this will come as no surprise to him—that I do not share his enthusiasm for what would in effect be a renationalisation of the railways.
I should like to ensure that the House is fully aware of what is being done to help Bombardier and Derby. The hon. Member for Derby North will be aware that Bombardier recently secured a £188 million bid to build 130 new railway carriages following a procurement competition run by Southern Railways. Last week, Southern Railways announced that it was exercising an option to invest in 40 new Electrostar carriages from Bombardier. Bombardier is among the suppliers who have bid for the new Crossrail rolling stock, which I referred to earlier, but as the procurement process is live it would be inappropriate to go into details. The Department for Transport is working to develop proposals for a further procurement of 116 rolling stock vehicles, which Southern, if it goes ahead, will be able to bid for. Through its talent and expertise, Bombardier has secured a considerable amount of work. There are a number of significant opportunities for it to seek to make more procurement bids successfully, which would lead to a bright future for the company. If it secures all the potential bids, it will help it to strengthen its capabilities and work force, and allow it to develop its potential.
In conclusion, the Government do not just talk the talk, they walk the walk. In the past two and a half years, we have invested record amounts of money—billions of pounds—to play catch-up from the failure of successive previous Governments to invest in our railway infrastructure, so that we have a first-class, fit-for-purpose railway network that can compete with our European competitors and ensure that we get a higher standard of journey for passengers and more freight on to the railways. In recent years, since privatisation, we have seen freight on our networks increase by 60%, with all the benefits that follow on from taking the freight off our road networks. [Interruption.] On the prompting of one of my hon. Friends, I would like to wish you and the staff, Mr Deputy Speaker, a very happy Christmas, secure in the knowledge that we are investing significantly to improve our railways. If you are returning to your constituency for Christmas on the west coast main line with a Virgin train, I wish you a prompt, enjoyable and speedy journey.
General Matters
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
As we move on, maybe this is the time for me to talk the talk and wish all hon. Members and staff working at Parliament a very merry Christmas and a happy and healthy 2013. It would not be a Christmas general debate without a contribution from Mr David Amess, so let us start with Mr David Amess.