Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Sharon Hodgson and Gavin Williamson

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

I always recall that when my hon. Friend and I were first elected to the House we, as constituency neighbours, campaigned very hard to get a better funding settlement for Staffordshire, but also for all schools across the country. We are working on the capital settlement, and we will be working with the Treasury to bring forward announcements in the not-too-distant future.

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)]

For pupils on free school meals, buying water at lunchtime can cost up to 80p of their allowance, which is often more than the fruit juices and milkshakes available. Does the Secretary of State agree that free water should be available, with cups and bottles, for all pupils in all our schools?

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. No child should ever be expected to pay for water, and no school should ever deny a child access to fresh water. It is a legal requirement for all schools to make water available. If she would be kind enough to forward details of where water is not available, we will be sure to follow it up.

Higher Education Fees

Debate between Sharon Hodgson and Gavin Williamson

Thursday 9th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak against the motion on behalf of all my constituents, especially the teenagers who have e-mailed me over the last few days asking me to do so. I want to talk about what the Government’s plans will mean for many of those young people, if not all of them.

In a Liberal Democrat press release during the election campaign, the Deputy Prime Minister said:

“If fees rise to £7,000 a year, as many rumours suggest they would, within five years some students will be leaving university up to £44,000 in debt. That would be a disaster.”

I am sure that this is going to be the only time I find myself saying this, but “I agree with Nick.” Even if most universities charge the minimum of £6,000, it will still be a disaster. If most of the more prestigious universities charge £9,000, it would be an even bigger disaster.

For many young people in my constituency, fees of £27,000 will prove the ultimate deterrent to carrying on their education and realising their academic potential. If their ambition were strong enough, they would still find themselves having to think very seriously about going to a local university—to avoid the living expenses—rather than to the best university that would accept them, based on their ability. Indeed, comments made by the Secretary of State in the last debate on this subject lead me to believe that this is exactly what he intends people to do. I find that totally hypocritical, given that he had the opportunity to live in Cambridge and attend a top university.

Do not get me wrong, Madam Deputy Speaker, as many of the local higher education providers in my constituency are excellent for both the quality of teaching and the student experience. The university of Sunderland was recently declared at The Times higher education awards as the top university for the student experience. That does not mean, however, that staying local offers the best possible educational opportunities for everyone in my constituency. Many of my constituents are able enough to earn a place in a highly sought-after course elsewhere in the country, and it is imperative that they should feel able to apply to such institutions to study such courses without their main focus being on the potential cost.

[Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)]

The hon. Lady talks about top universities, but the Russell group of universities says:

“There has been much misinformation about the effect of fees on access. The evidence is clear that fees do not deter poorer students from university—particularly when combined with a progressive repayment system, precisely as the Government is proposing.”

Does that not destroy her argument?

[Mrs Hodgson]

Not at all. That is rubbish, and I totally disagree with it. As hon. Members have said, the proposal will put off people from working-class backgrounds going to any university, let alone a top one.

Of course the headline cost—the £44,000 spoken of by the Deputy Prime Minister—will not remain static. I have done my sums, and assuming my constituents graduate with a debt of £40,000 and are lucky enough to find a job that pays £21,000 in a market ravaged by the Government’s cuts, that debt will start to creep up. We hear that the interest rate will be 2.2% plus inflation. I note that for the purpose of raking money in, the Government have chosen the retail prices index, yet for paying out—say, in benefit uprating—they have chosen the lower measure of the consumer prices index. If we add the current RPI to 2.2%, we get 7.1%, which will mean an interest payment of £2,840 per annum on a debt of £40,000. To keep up with that interest and stop the debt rising, a graduate would need to earn more than £52,000 a year.

Most people in this country, graduate or otherwise, would consider themselves lucky to earn £52,000 by the age of 52, let alone 22. Where is the sense in the Government’s proposals if many graduates will have a bigger debt at the end of 30 years than they did when they graduated? On my calculations, I estimate that large numbers of students will have their debt written off under the proposals. How is that a better way of doing things? At least under the previous system graduates were able to pay off their debts, if they were working, on average within 11 years.

Concessions have been outlined over the past couple of days, as they were when the matter was discussed in a debate in Westminster Hall secured by my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). They must have been drawn up on the back of one of the Deputy Prime Minister’s ever-growing pile of empty fag packets, but their announcement gives me the impression that someone in the Government must recognise the damage that their plans will do to the life chances of many young people and to the wider economy. It beggars belief, therefore, that they are still pressing ahead with them.