Devolution (Immigration) (Scotland) Bill

Sean Woodcock Excerpts

Friday 25th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Richard Quigley (Isle of Wight West) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for Arbroath and Broughty Ferry (Stephen Gethins) for his speech, although, as my children say, that is 50 minutes we will never get back. Even though I rise today representing a constituency that lies some 488 miles from Scotland, much of what I hear from Scottish colleagues on both sides of the House resonates deeply with me as a Member from an island constituency. Although this Bill may focus on matters far from Isle of Wight West, it has given me a chance to reflect on some fond memories of Scotland, whether that is searching for dolphins around Nairn, regularly visiting Edinburgh, or my trip to Faslane to learn about nuclear submarines. I have a very fond memory of my visit to Largs to work with the Scottish office of the Ellen MacArthur Cancer Trust, an organisation that does fantastic and vital work with children to rebuild their confidence after their battle with cancer. Its dedication is a powerful reminder that no matter the distance between our communities, we share common challenges and, often, shared solutions.

During these visits to Scotland, I have always been struck by the warmth, generosity and hospitality of the people I have met, whether that is in Inverness, Edinburgh, or in smaller towns in between. This hospitality reflects something deeper than just kindness. It speaks to a strong sense of community, openness and pride in welcoming others, and it is precisely that spirit that should be at the part of any conversation about immigration. Immigration, when done right, should strengthen communities, not divide them. It should reflect the same values that I have seen across Scotland and in my community on the Isle of Wight: a desire to offer opportunity, build belonging and contribute to something greater than ourselves.

When I speak to my hon. Friends the Members for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton) and for North Ayrshire and Arran (Irene Campbell), I hear echoes of my community on the Isle of Wight, despite the geographical separation. Like them, we are bound by the challenges of geography, dependent on ferry services —Members would expect me to mention that—to get to work or school, receive vital goods and supplies, and access healthcare and essential public services. Like them, we too have been let down time and again by broken promises, under-investment and poor planning by the previous Government—I would not want to leave Conservative Members out.

As hon. Members will know, I have had more than a few choice words about the current ferry situation on the Isle of Wight, but even I must admit that when compared with the so-called Scottish ferry fiasco, our situation feels slightly less dire. For those who are unfamiliar with that, back in 2015, the Scottish Government awarded a contract worth £97 million to Ferguson Marine to build two new ferries for CalMac. Those ferries were meant to modernise the fleet, improve reliability and serve island routes such as Arran and the Western Isles.

[Sean Woodcock (Banbury) (Lab)]

Is what my hon. Friend just mentioned not another example of the incompetence and failings of the SNP? Frankly, motions and Bills like this are simply a disguise and designed to pull the wool over the eyes of people in Scotland.

[Mr Quigley]

My hon. Friend might not be surprised to hear that I am coming to that point.

The ferries were supposed to be operational by 2018, but here we are in 2025 and neither ferry has set sail.

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[Pete Wishart]

I have no doubt that the hon. Member is utterly sincere. I have listened to several remarks from his Labour colleagues, and some of them greatly impressed me. It encouraged me to think that there is a little bit of a fight-back. I sat on the Committee considering the Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill, and I did not enjoy that for one minute. What I saw was a range of initiatives and policies that could basically have come from the Conservatives. It was very much the same sort of theme and trend: immigration was bad, it had to be curbed, it had to be taken on and dealt with. It was never seen as a positive. I encourage the hon. Gentleman to speak up, do more of this, and encourage his colleagues to speak out clearly on these issues. That is what we need. We are in a political crisis—at a juncture in our political culture and history—and we need brave gentlemen like him to stand up there and take it on, rather than listening to his Front Benchers. The Home Secretary in particular has a track record on this. He needs to challenge her and the Home Office.

[Sean Woodcock]

The hon. Member has spoken at great length about the benefits of immigration. I am married to an eastern European immigrant, so I am well aware of the massive benefits of immigration to this country. What I am bit confused about, though, is how adding an extra layer of red tape and a potential border between England and Scotland would improve or make a difference to what he has just talked about.

[Pete Wishart]

I was going to leave that point until later in my speech, but the hon. Gentleman tempts me to get on to that territory now—he is obviously looking for some sort of solution. I will try to explain our plans and intentions to him as best I can, as well as where I think this matter should eventually go.

When I chaired the Scottish Affairs Committee, we were lucky enough to go to Quebec to look at its state-wide immigration system, which is fantastic. Members should go to Montreal and have a look the construction there—it is a boom city. It is able to do that because the Quebecois state Parliament was able to gain control over immigration from the state Government. As a result, Quebec can appeal to Francophone Europe to think about settling there, thereby attracting the specific skills that are lacking. That has led to such incredible growth in Quebec, which is in charge of its immigration system. That works in Canada. Are we trying to suggest that what people call “the most powerful devolved Parliament in the world” could not come up with a similar or even more effective system than what we saw in Canada? That is what we can do if we have the imagination.

The hon. Member for Banbury (Sean Woodcock) asks how this would work. I think I heard somebody talk about border guards and passport controls between Scotland and England. In the past 10 years, Scotland has acquired significant new powers over taxation—we can have a debate about that at some other point—which has allowed us to set up Revenue Scotland, so all of us in Scotland have a different tax code from everybody else throughout the United Kingdom. That individual Scottish tax code allows us to know where people are living and working. If they have such a tax code, they are paying taxes in Scotland.

If we had a Scottish visa, one of the conditions for people coming to Scotland from outwith the United Kingdom would be for them to have a Scottish tax code that would allow us to monitor where they are living and working. One of the conditions for their coming in would be to be resident and working in Scotland. If they broke the conditions for their entry to Scotland, they would no longer be entitled to a Scottish visa and would be made illegal. Who on earth would do that? Why would somebody not want the opportunity to live in Scotland. There are practical solutions that other nations use. Surely nobody is suggesting that Scotland could not introduce such a scheme. It has been done before. We have already talked about fresh talent. Labour has given Scotland an advantage in immigration before and could do it again. It is not beyond the wit of the Scottish nation to ensure that we have an immigration system and a specific tax code, but we need the means to do it.

There is another issue that I wish to take on, which I addressed in response to an intervention, and that is the idea that Scotland does not get any migrants from the rest of the UK—that they do not want to come to Scotland. That is just utter bunkum and rubbish. I hope that, after this debate, that suggestion will never be made again, because it is just rubbish. I will give the House a few statistics. According to the National Records of Scotland, in the year leading up to mid-2022, net migration from the rest of the UK to Scotland increased to 12,500, up from 8,900 the previous year. The trend continued, with net internal migration rising to 13,900 in the year to June 2023—the last figures. [Interruption.] That is a 21-year high, and 39% higher than pre-pandemic levels.

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[Ian Murray]

With GB Energy, and indeed with the green revolution going on across the globe, my ambition is not just that Scotland will play a part, but that it will win the global race. It is well placed to do so, with first mover advantage. The things this Government have done—setting a mission for clean power by 2030, setting up and capitalising GB Energy and having a National Wealth Fund—are all part of making sure that Scotland wins that global race, and of creating the jobs of the future.

[Sean Woodcock]

It seems to me, to be fair, that this Bill is about creating jobs in Scotland—but jobs for form checkers and passport checkers at the border between England and Scotland, rather than anything particularly useful. Does my right hon. Friend agree?

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[Dame Meg Hillier]

As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is important that we have debate in this place. People have made points to me and I am simply responding to those points. As I said, I am not suggesting that we would want, or would see, watchtowers with armed guards, and in my area of the country we had the second-largest anti-Brexit vote, so I know where I and my constituents stand on that issue. However, we do not want to add extra borders where we do not need to.

[Sean Woodcock]

We all benefit from my hon. Friend’s long experience in the House. She was around during the discussions after the referendum in 2016. Does she recall that a Division on remaining in the customs union was lost by six votes when all 48 SNP MPs abstained?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

My hon. Friend makes the point.

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[Dame Meg Hillier]

I have absolute confidence and faith that my Scottish Labour colleagues will have done the maths, will know where the money will come from, and will have looked at the matter in the round, and will be more willing to work with Whitehall on these issues. We will no doubt discuss with the Secretary of State for Scotland, the Home Secretary and others in Government, as necessary, how they will ensure that everything matches up, because that is right. Scottish Labour will invest in young people—something that the SNP has a woeful record on. That investment includes putting people through the right skilled routes, so that we have the skills that are needed in Scotland.

My point is that under the SNP, the Scottish Government have this immigration policy that they have promoted hard, but they have never dealt with its consequences. A new Government—a new broom coming in next May in Scotland—who understand these issues, are able and willing to get their head around how to tackle them, and are willing to work with Government in Whitehall, will deliver for the young people of Scotland and for the Scottish economy.

[Sean Woodcock]

If this Bill passed, does my hon. Friend imagine that the talk of making it harder for people to get between England and Scotland would have a beneficial or negative impact on growth prospects in Scotland? Does she imagine that there would be an impact on investment in public services in Scotland?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

That is exactly the point. The hon. Member for Arbroath and Broughty Ferry puts great faith in Committee stages. I have been here a long time, and they are not always as good as people say that they will be. Even if there was a Committee stage, there are so many other elements. That is one of the challenges with a Bill that is simply one line long. There are issues and knock-on effects for not just the Home Office, but all the other cross-UK institutions. I spent more than a decade on the Public Accounts Committee, and I know that if we pull a lever somewhere in Whitehall, unintended consequences flow into places we would never have thought of. The skill in government is to try to work that out, and a Bill like this would not deliver that necessary joined-up approach.