Automotive Industry

Debate between Sarah Owen and Jesse Norman

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Jesse Norman)]

It has been an interesting and absorbing debate, and I thank all those who have taken part in it. I must say that I take my hat off to the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds). It is interesting to know that he grew up in Sunderland, and I notice his great affection for the Black Cats—an affection I greatly share—Niall Quinn and the glory days of Peter Reid. Who but the hon. Gentleman could better hark back to the 1990s, and how much does he do so in politics as he does in football? It is a little unnerving to see him newly hirsute—at least in terms of the past year or three. He is getting an unnervingly close resemblance to His late Majesty King George V, which creates a somewhat unnerving impression across the Dispatch Box when one is trying to respond to the important points he makes.

The hon. Gentleman came, as did the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh), with a clear agenda for this debate, which was to tell a desperate story of a struggling industry and a country labouring in its automotive manufacturing. Unfortunately, they have both had desperately bad luck in their choice of debate, because those gloomy speeches are made, and the desire for optimism is expressed, and then it turns out that Geely and Renault have today announced a pioneering new investment to become a global leader in new engine technologies. Not only that: it turns out that we just laid the new charge point regulations, which will make it easier than ever to own an EV. Those were widely welcomed, I might add, by Mike Hawes of the SMMT, who was richly quoted today by Opposition Members, and with reason. Fascinatingly, only today, Tesla has announced its intention to become an electricity supplier, which will itself become an enormously important part of that wider systems infrastructure that has been rightly mentioned. What a day to choose to be gloomy on. What a day of good news, and how much that reinforces the picture of an industry that is dealing brilliantly with the challenges and changes to its own circumstances.

[Sarah Owen]

Will the Minister give way?

[Jesse Norman]

I would give way, but I want to respond to the many other points from Members who actually made speeches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Owen]

I made a speech.

[Jesse Norman]

I hope the hon. Lady will let me get to those points first. [Interruption.] We can go on, or Opposition Members can listen to what the Government are trying to say.

The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde talked about low business investment, and he is absolutely right that one should not pick and choose statistics but try to give a full picture. I was, therefore, slightly surprised that he ignored the fact that business investment has grown steadily since 2010. The Institute for Government published a report that tracks the crashing of business investment in this country to the Labour Administration and dates its recovery from 2008 to 2010. That is the picture of business investment that the hon. Gentleman asks us to get to.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth (Dr Evans) rightly highlighted MIRA. What a great facility that is and what a great testing opportunity it will create for this country over the next few years. He is right to talk about grid connectivity and to mention Triumph Motorcycles, a business that I met only the other day, but he would have wanted to mention the strategic framework, which was announced last year, for electricity provision. If there is a report coming soon—he can speak from his knowledge of that in a Parliamentary Private Secretary context—I can only applaud that.

The hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) worried about the roll-out of charge points. I hope she will be reassured by the new regs on charge points, which we have only just laid and which were welcomed by the SMMT and many other players across that industry. I also hope she will be pleased that ChargeUK, representing the charge point operators, has announced that £6 billion will be invested in charge points across the country over the next few years. That is a direct result of the ZEV mandate, which ties the creation of charge point infrastructure to the support for EVs in the systemic way that parties across the House, including the Opposition, recognise. It is those two things that will grow together. It is the ability to aim against that target of specific EV numbers coming into and being sold in this country that creates the priming for private investment, and rightly so.

I was pleased to hear the contribution of the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Mr Mahmood), who was absolutely right to raise the topic of apprenticeships. As an apprentice in this House, I salute him; he echoed the “Education, education, education” policy of a former Member of this House with “Skills, skills, skills”, which I completely agree are very important. Let me remind him that in my constituency we are pioneering a specialist STEM technology university—the New Model Institute for Technology and Engineering—which is just the thing that can be used to build skills and to prime levelling up across the country.

What a wonderfully fresh and enthusiastic speech from the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson). I was excited to hear it, but tragically it turned out to be a tag-team “curse on both your houses” misery exercise, relitigating Brexit long after that horse has left the stable. That was rightly picked up by the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde, who did not want to be drawn on Brexit. I understand why: the country took a decision and we are working with the consequences.

The hon. Member for Gordon said that the speech by my hon. Friend the Minister for Industry and Economic Security—a brilliant speech it was, too—was the length of time it would take to charge an EV. At 35 minutes, that is not quite true, but that is absolutely the ambition that we want to get to for all EV operators across the country. We want people to be able to charge very rapidly while they go and pick up a cup of coffee in the usual way.

I thank the hon. Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith) for her comment. She asked for a renewable energy focus and was right to do so. I hope that I can reassure her by reminding her that National Grid reported that in 2010 less than 20% of our energy was renewable, while in 2022—last year—more than 50% was renewable in five months of the year. That is tremendous progress. She may also be pleased to know that coal, which was used for 43% of electricity generation in 2012, is now at 1.5%. That is tremendous progress on both those fronts.

[Sarah Owen]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Listening to the Minister’s response, I want to give him the opportunity to correct the record. Not only does he seem not to be living on the same planet as us, but he is clearly not in the same Chamber. He implied that I had not spoken in the debate, but I gave a lengthy speech on the issues we are facing in Luton right now. I invite him to correct the record at the Dispatch Box.

[Jesse Norman]

I would be happy to respond to the hon. Lady. That is not actually what I said. I said that I wanted to respond to the speeches and therefore I would not take interventions at that time. I will of course—[Interruption.] If she would prefer me to respond not to her speech but to an intervention, I will let her make an intervention.

[Sarah Owen]

I thank the Minister for finally allowing an intervention. He talked about optimism. Does he feel optimistic that the manufacturing industry now faces a 10% tariff on passenger cars and a 22% tariff on vans? Does he believe that we should all be optimistic about that future, or does he believe the reality—that the manufacturing industry faces a cliff edge?

[Jesse Norman]

If that is the best the hon. Lady can do, she would have been better to wait for my response to her speech. No, the truth of the matter is that this country is engaged in discussions and negotiations with European partners about the circumstances—we export an enormous number of cars, which is an important fact from their point of view as it is from ours—and it would be futile to discuss those matters in public. We all know that none of these negotiations is ever done in public, and that includes commercial negotiations, which Labour appears to wish to be done in public as well.

Let me proceed a little more. The hon. Members for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins), for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) and for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) touched on new gigafactories. I invite Opposition Front- Bench Members to comment further if they wish, because this is a much-heralded part of the Labour strategy, and if the Labour party seeks to subsidise eight new gigafactories, perhaps they would like to put on record how much public money—taxpayer’s money—they propose to spend on that and how it would be funded. We very much look forward to seeing their plans. I will be interested to see whether they bear any resemblance to market conditions or show any signs of doing anything other than immiserating and impoverishing the British taxpayer.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House recognises that the automotive industry is the jewel in the crown of British manufacturing and believes it can have a bright future creating good jobs for people across the UK; regrets that after 13 years of Conservative neglect the UK risks losing this world-class industry, putting thousands of jobs under threat; condemns the Government for its lack of an industrial strategy and the negative impact this has had on investment in the UK’s automotive sector; calls on the Government to urgently resolve the rules of origin changes which are due to take effect in 2024, working with partners across Europe to negotiate a deal that works for manufacturers; and further calls on the Government to adopt an active industrial strategy to build the battery factory capacity needed to secure the automotive sector for decades to come.

Chinese Consulate: Attack on Hong Kong Protesters

Debate between Sarah Owen and Jesse Norman

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

I think my hon. Friend has misunderstood me, as I have not said that there needs to be a legal process; I have said that there has to be a process of determining what the facts are. That has already been conceded by Members from across this House, and it is important that we have not only our private views as to what may or may not have been on video, however well founded they may be, but an official view based on proper scrutiny.

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

As the Minister is hiding behind process on a number of these issues, I will try a different tack. What steps is he taking to work with colleagues in the Home Office to ensure that police officers are adequately trained and aware of the cultural and political sensitivities when protecting the thousands of Hongkongers who are seeking safety in our country, especially when people have been attacked by Chinese communist party agents or suspected CCP agents? We know that what we saw outside the consulate is not an isolated incident.

[Jesse Norman]

As you will be aware, Mr Speaker, there is no question of hiding behind process; we have a rule of law in this country and we allow legal processes to go through. We allow processes of fact and determination before action is taken. That is entirely appropriate, and it is what one would expect from a country that professes to be the home of the rule of law, as has been rightly said. However, it is important to say that police forces are extremely concerned about and sensitive to the kinds of issues that the hon. Lady raises. Indeed, I do not need to tell the House that the Greater Manchester police deal with a very wide range of ethnicities and concerns, and have specific training in order to manage those issues in a sensitive and engaged way.

National Insurance Contributions Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Sarah Owen and Jesse Norman

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Jesse Norman]

I fully understand the concern of the hon. Lady, and precisely because the Government have been concerned about transition, we have introduced the relief. If it were the case that veterans still had a serious problem of finding secure and stable employment, of course that would be a matter that the Government would wish to reflect on and consider. I thank her for raising it.

To go to the second point raised by the hon. Member for Ealing North, he asked about the timing and the issues of real-time payments that the Bill contemplates. I understand the concern, in particular at this moment of pandemic when the Government are seeking to protect and support the cash flow of businesses and have done so across a vast number of them, across the whole of the United Kingdom, in many different forms. The Committee is aware of that.

The hon. Gentleman asked if we would look at that. Of course, I am happy to consider the matter further and to ask HMRC to consider it, but as he will recall, the matter has been given extensive consultation and internal discussion, and the IT and other problems that I described are not ones that can be wished away.

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

When it comes to veterans’ national insurance contributions relief, I really feel that it needs to be for much longer than a year, for some of the reasons that the Minister has just highlighted. The cuts to 10,000 armed forces personnel come at a time when people are losing their jobs due to the economic pressures from the pandemic, and it seems very odd to say that we are looking at a long-term solution yet giving armed forces personnel the security of only one year.

[Jesse Norman]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I would repeat the points that I made earlier, which is to say that this is about managing a process of transition. The process of transition is one that has a beginning and an end. The key thing is to offer genuine support at a moment when a veteran needs it as they come out of the armed forces and go into employment, and to design that flexibly. That is what we have done. It has been extensively consulted on throughout a process with a series of stages, which have taken place during the pandemic and in which colleagues and wider stakeholders have been well sighted. It reflects the shared and calibrated understanding, but of course we recognise the concern that colleagues have raised, and we will continue to reflect on this policy, as we will on other tax policies.

Finance (No.2) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Sarah Owen and Jesse Norman

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Jesse Norman]

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

[Jesse Norman]

Finance (No.2) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Sarah Owen and Jesse Norman

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Jesse Norman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his questions, to which I shall respond when I have described how the clause works.

Clause 20 extends the operation of social investment tax relief for two years, until 5 April 2023. This will continue the availability of income tax relief and capital gains tax reliefs for investors who make investments in qualifying social enterprises. This measure ensures that the Government will continue to support social enterprises in the UK that are seeking patient capital for growth. 

SITR encourages investment in social enterprises by offering income tax and capital gains tax reliefs to individual investors who subscribe for new shares, or make a new debt investment, in qualifying enterprises. Between 2014 and 2018-19, 110 social enterprises used SITR to raise £11.2 million in investment—a much lower engagement than originally anticipated. In line with commitments made when SITR was expanded in 2016, the Government conducted a review of the scheme last year, including through a call for evidence. Following the review, the Government now propose to extend SITR’s sunset clause from April 2021 to April 2023.

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

Research from Social Enterprise UK indicates that about one in five social enterprises may use the tax relief to help access capital in the wake of covid-19, but that 40% are unlikely to do so in the next two years. We need to give investors time to raise and deploy capital, which could take up to two years, assuming that they started immediately once the extension had been announced. Would not a further extension show the support for entrepreneurs, social enterprises and charities that we need right now to get our communities back on their feet?

[Jesse Norman]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She will be aware that this relief has been in place since 2014-15. It is unfortunate, therefore, that it has not been taken up more widely. There was a considerable period following its introduction, with the tremendous backing and support of the social enterprise sector, in which it was not taken up. It is important that those who call for its extension ask themselves why it was not taken up. The Government certainly attempted with great enthusiasm to press the case wherever possible. The truth of the matter is that many people invest in and support social enterprises by charitable giving rather than through investment, so the use of a deduction does not appear to be particularly attractive to them.

One wishes it were otherwise. I have worked in social enterprises in different ways since the 1980s and I feel very passionately about their importance, but, to take a parallel example, charities received £1.4 billion in gift aid in 2019-20. Since 2014-15, a total of £11 million has been raised through SITR—a tiny fraction. The amount of relief granted is a fraction of that. This is a relief that we are extending in order to try to support the sector to the extent that we can, but there needs to be a much more fundamental reconsideration. I have invited stakeholders in the sector, at length, to step forward and help us to think about whether a new approach may be valuable and interesting. I thank the hon. Lady for her comments.

Given the balance between SITR’s performance and the desire to continue support for social enterprises, a two-year extension seems to provide an appropriate timeframe for the scheme to continue to support the social enterprise sector while also providing a reasonable period over which to monitor its effectiveness. The changes made by clause 20 would extend the operation of SITR by two years at, I am afraid, negligible cost to the Exchequer. I wish that the cost were higher, because it would show that the relief was being more widely used.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Sarah Owen and Jesse Norman

Tuesday 7th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

I absolutely confirm that. The reason we have backed high-street firms so strongly all the way through is precisely that we recognise the central importance of these sectors to getting Britain’s high streets back firing on all cylinders. My hon. Friend will know that we have also introduced the Business and Planning Bill to help businesses in England get back on their feet, and we have accelerated nearly £100 million of investment in town centres and high streets, through the towns fund this year, to the same end.

[Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)]

What discussions he has had with the (a) Secretary of State for Transport and (b) Home Secretary on providing financial support to protect jobs in the aviation industry.