Protection of Seals

Debate between Sarah Olney and Robin Millar

Tuesday 27th June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Sarah Olney]

I thank the hon. Member for her intervention; that was the point I was about to make. As well as the education initiatives, which have been so welcome, we need more progress on the legislative side of this issue.

Just a few weeks after Freddie’s death, a BASE jumper performed a jump directly above a group of seals in north Wales. Despite being warned of the threat he posed to local wildlife, he went ahead with the jump, causing a mass stampede of seals into the sea. That kind of disturbance may seem relatively harmless, but it can be catastrophic for the animals involved. It disrupts the pups’ feeding, reduces their chances of surviving the cold winter months and leaves adults stressed and tired. Extreme cases can result in injury or death. When startled, some seals will do anything to hide from suspected predators, throwing themselves off rocky ledges towards the oceans, breaking jaws and flippers. Unable to swim or eat, seals injured in this way will die soon after.

Freddie’s death and the stampede in north Wales reinforce the need for a dual approach whereby education and legislation are implemented hand in hand to ensure the safety of seals in Britain’s waterways.

[Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Lady for securing this debate and for the way she is setting it out. Angel Bay, in my north Wales constituency, is well known for its seal population. In fact, this debate is extraordinarily timely, as today I have been contacted by constituents who are concerned because a film crew are out there. I happen to know that they are supported by the North Wales Wildlife Trust. Will she join me in thanking groups such as the North Wales Wildlife Trust and the many volunteers who look after these colonies and help to balance the important demand for education of the public with the protection of these remarkable creatures?

[Sarah Olney]

The hon. Member is absolutely right. We have a fantastic group of voluntary organisations in this country that are really dedicated to protecting the interests of seals and ensuring their welfare. It is great news to hear that the film crew in his constituency are working closely with the North Wales Wildlife Trust, but we also have organisations such as the Seal Research Trust, Seal Watch and the Seal Alliance. There is a whole group of organisations doing really valuable work in this area.

We have a special responsibility on behalf of the rest of the world to ensure that we protect these rare creatures. The United Kingdom is home to more than a third of the global grey seal population. We are a sanctuary for seals in Europe, and we should have legal protections in place to ensure that they are not harmed by our actions. Beyond our global responsibility, introducing a ban on seal disturbance would safeguard the current economic benefits brought by these creatures and encourage further responsible, sustainable seal-based tourism.

Minimum Energy Performance of Buildings Bill

Debate between Sarah Olney and Robin Millar

2nd reading
Friday 24th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Olney]

The hon. Member makes an excellent point. The division between social and private is in many ways an obstacle to achieving our goals on this issue. In social and regulated housing, where there are opportunities perhaps to achieve economies of scale, certainly in whole blocks or whole estates of housing, a lot can be done, but obviously those opportunities are more challenging where private property is concerned. What we need is a range of innovative solutions in the private sector.

[Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)]

This is a fascinating debate, which I have followed. It has been brought to my attention by land and property holders in my constituency who have a large portfolio of listed and conservation buildings. The Bill drives them into a difficult place. On the one hand, there is a drive to increase efficiency. On the other hand, they are confronted by planning rules which prevent easy modification and adaptation of the structure to, for example, accommodate solar panels. Is the hon. Lady arguing that we should move to an easing of planning regulation to allow efficiency improvements in listed and conservation building stock?

[Sarah Olney]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. It is a live issue in my own constituency, he will be pleased to hear. We have conservation areas where people are keen to put solar panels on their roofs and it is possible on one side of the street but not on the other because of the impact on the streetscape. I very much urge local authorities—or whatever the planning authority is; it will be different in different parts—to look at that particular issue. We need to explore and weigh up the gain both for society at large and for individual householders. It will be different in different places. In some cases, it is about how the street looks, what people want to preserve and whether adjustments can be made. In other examples, the fabric of the building itself will need to be preserved.

Before I came into this place in 2019, I was the financial accountant for Historic Royal Palaces. My old office was right in the middle of Hampton Court Palace, so a lot of these issues around fabric of the building are very close to my heart. Interestingly, there is no better place to be on a very, very hot summer’s day than right in the middle of a Tudor palace, with six-foot thick stone walls. I can confirm that it is just about the best possible natural cooling one can have.

[Robin Millar]

The hon. Lady is being generous with her time. We have much in common in our interest in and passion for old buildings. In fact, I came across the statistic that some 95% of conservation and listed buildings are still expected to be in use in 100 years’ time. That creates incredible economic pressure on the market to ensure that efficiencies are delivered, at incredible cost. I ask again, where do we think that cost might be addressed? Is she arguing for an easing of those conservation rules to reduce the cost on that particular sector of conservation and listed buildings?

[Sarah Olney]

I was coming to the point about the cost, which was raised by the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson). We need to rebalance and grasp the importance of energy efficiency right now. It is not just about climate change or fuel bills; it is about health and wellbeing, often of the very poorest in our society—if the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) will forgive me, they are probably less concerned about historic buildings. I mentioned Citizens Advice Richmond; one of its observations is that it is frequently the buildings built in the 1960s and 1970s where they find the most problems with damp and mould.

I fear that we are getting distracted by some of the more minor concerns, when the issue is about the bulk of our housing stock—particularly the housing stock that our most vulnerable and low-income citizens live in—and what we can do. I want to pick up the point about where the cost will come from. Where it is an individual household and it is their responsibility, I want the Government to produce some clearer strategies about how the problem will be tackled. The private sector will then have more incentive to offer competitive options on things such as heat pumps, roof insulation and cavity wall insulation. We need a bigger take-up of those things to create a competitive market, but some of that has to come from the Government taking a lead in the sorts of strategies and products that householders might be tempted to take up.