Heritage Public Houses Bill
Debate between Sarah Hall and Alex Ballinger
Sarah Hall (Warrington South) (Lab/Co-op)
When people think about pubs, they often think first about beer, but while great beer certainly matters, pubs have always been about much more than what is poured into a glass. They are meeting places, employers, community hubs, cultural institutions and, in many cases, living pieces of local history, as we have heard a lot about today.
In Warrington South, we are fortunate to have a rich pub culture, a growing independent hospitality sector and local breweries that continue a tradition stretching back generations. From Stockton Heath and Grappenhall to Latchford and Appleton, and across the wider constituency, pubs remain places where friendships are formed, local fundraising takes place, sports teams celebrate victories, families gather for meals, and communities come together in times of joy and challenge. Because pubs matter, we have a responsibility to approach legislation affecting them with care, precision and a proper understanding of the law as it already exists.
The question before the House is not whether historic pubs deserve protection—of course they do. The question is whether the measures proposed in this Bill are necessary, proportionate and effective alongside the protections already available, and whether they will genuinely help pubs to survive as living businesses, rather than simply preserving bricks and mortar. That distinction is particularly important in Warrington South. Warrington has a remarkable brewing history. For generations, Greenall’s was one of the names most closely associated with our town, connecting brewing with local employment, industry and the network of public houses through which beer reached our communities. Many local people also remember the famous Tetley Walker brewery on Dallam Lane.
Alex Ballinger
My hon. Friend talks about the local network connecting different breweries. Warrington might be very similar to the Black Country, in that canals were historically used to pass barrels of ale from brewery to pub. Does she have any famous canals in her constituency, and are they still used in that way?
Sarah Hall
We do indeed. We have the famous Sankey Canal, which is one of the oldest, if not the first, canal in this country. We also have the Manchester ship canal, which I am sure everybody here has heard about.
For decades, the Greenall’s brewery helped to define the character and economy of Warrington. The distinctive smell of hops became part of daily life for generations of residents, and the brewery was an important local employer. Although that era has passed, brewing remains very much alive in our town. One example is the 4T’s brewery, based in Latchford and founded by John Wilkinson, who previously worked at the historic Tetley Walker brewery. Having started in a garage, 4T’s has developed from a small operation into an established independent brewery producing cask, craft, bottled and canned beers, and it is exceptional.
That continuity matters. It demonstrates that heritage need not be frozen in time; it can be carried forward by people who possess the skills, knowledge and determination to adapt an old industry to new circumstances. Local breweries do far more than produce beer; they support employment, buy goods and services, supply pubs, attract visitors and strengthen Warrington’s identity. When residents choose a locally brewed pint, more of that spending remains within the local economy.
Independent breweries and pubs form part of a wider network of businesses that support one another. Across Warrington, CAMRA recognises venues that champion quality beer and community spirit, including the Lower Angel, the Tavern and the Hop Emporium, among many others. Such establishments remind us that a pub’s value is not measured solely by the age of the building. It is also measured by the landlord who knows the regulars by name, the community group that meets in the back room, the local team that celebrate a victory there, and the family that has gathered around the same table for decades. A historic building may retain architectural interest after it ceases to operate as a pub, but a historic pub that continues to serve its community combines architectural, cultural and social value, and our policy should recognise all three.
I am concerned that debates about heritage can sometimes become too focused on labels: we discuss whether a building is listed, whether it appears on a register or whether it meets a particular statutory definition. Those questions matter, because legal protection often depends on them, but a community’s attachment to a pub does not begin on the day a local authority adds it to a list, and neither does a pub’s cultural significance disappear because it falls just outside a definition drawn up in Westminster.
Warrington has some wonderful examples of historic public houses. The Barley Mow, whose origins date back to 1561, is a remarkable timber-framed building where the ancient beams and historic panelling connect us with earlier generations. The Ferry Tavern, which was first licensed in 1762, occupies a distinctive setting between the Mersey and the Sankey and alongside the trans-Pennine trail. There are many, many more—too many to mention.
These are not simply commercial premises; they are part of the character and story of our area. Once a historic building has been demolished, no subsequent register can bring it back. That is why early identification, good information, effective enforcement and timely decisions are so important. However, the lesson should not simply be that every pub requires another statutory designation. Local authorities need the knowledge, resources and confidence to use the powers that they already possess, and communities need meaningful opportunities to influence decisions before it is too late.
Pubs are already protected by the planning system. Proposals to demolish a pub or change its use require a planning application, because pubs are deliberately excluded from the relevant permitted development rights, so an owner cannot simply assume that a pub can be demolished or converted without scrutiny. The local planning authority has an opportunity to consider the proposal, assess its impact and apply the relevant planning policy.
Alex Ballinger
My hon. Friend continues to make an excellent speech. On the subject of planning systems and frameworks, does she share my concern that, despite the good intentions of this Bill, the additional layers of bureaucracy that may be put on the owners of a pub, planning authorities and others might cause more friction in the system than is intended?
Sarah Hall
I absolutely agree. I think we need to focus on ensuring that the current legislation is more robust and is enforced, rather than adding extra layers, as my hon. Friend says.
The current policies already act as an important safeguard, so creating another legal requirement will not necessarily produce a better practical outcome. Local planning authorities already have powers to issue enforcement notices where there has been a breach of planning control, and non-compliance with an enforcement notice can result in an unlimited fine on conviction. That is a substantial sanction. The challenge is ensuring that breaches are identified, investigated and dealt with promptly. There is an important difference between a lack of legal power and a failure to use existing powers effectively.
Local planning authorities can also create local lists of buildings of historic architectural interest, including heritage pubs. These non-designated heritage assets receive consideration through the national planning policy framework when relevant planning decisions are made. That matters, because heritage is not restricted to nationally famous landmarks. A pub can be central to the identity of a neighbourhood without meeting the criteria for a statutory listing.
There is also a building preservation notice; where a local planning authority considers that a building of special architectural or historic interest is at risk of demolition or harmful alteration, it can serve a notice and apply for the building to be considered for listing. These are already meaningful tools. The practical question for Warrington South is whether our council has the information and the resources it needs to identify vulnerable historic pubs and make effective use of those powers.
The importance of a pub is often best understood by the people who use it. The assets of community value scheme, introduced through the Localism Act 2011, allows communities in England to nominate buildings or land that further the social wellbeing or social interests of their community. The local authority considers whether the nomination meets the statutory definition and decides whether the asset should be listed, giving residents a formal way of saying, “This place matters to us, and its importance should be recognised.”
Residents are often best placed to explain why a particular pub matters. It might provide a meeting place for older people or host organisations and all the other great things that have been identified before, but an asset of community value listing is not an absolute guarantee that a building will remain open as a pub. The existing scheme provides a process for community involvement when a listed asset is put up for sale, but it does not generally compel the owner to sell to a community group or to accept its offer. That distinction matters.
Alex Ballinger
My hon. Friend raises a good point about involving the community in assets of community value. We are talking about heritage pubs. Pubs absolutely have a value to the community, but if the community decides that it wants to use them for a different purpose, is the asset of community value not a better mechanism for doing that than the Bill we are debating?
Sarah Hall
Absolutely, and I will move on to the community right to buy, which is incredibly significant here. The English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026 is intended to give communities the first opportunity to purchase an asset of community value. As a Labour and Co-operative MP, I am incredibly passionate about giving power to communities to run things, as they know how they would serve and fit in their areas. That is incredibly powerful, and I would love to see more of that.
Alex Ballinger
May I join my hon. Friend in congratulating the organisers of that festival on the charitable contributions they have made? I would also like to congratulate the organisers of the Halesowen beer, cider and gin festival at Halesowen cricket club. They have done fantastic work to bring the community together in Halesowen to enjoy all those different drinks and contribute to the community.
Sarah Hall
I echo those comments. Our event has been supporting incredible charities in our town such as St Rocco’s hospice and the homelessness charity Room at the Inn, as well as many international charitable projects.
Alex Ballinger
My hon. Friend is talking about the costs of pubs, which are incredibly important. Publicans in my constituency talk about not only energy costs but business rates and other challenges. Does she agree that the steps that the Chancellor is already making to reduce business rates for pubs will help publicans and heritage pubs in particular to continue? Will she support other measures to move business rates from the high street as well as pubs to larger online businesses, as is being proposed?
Sarah Hall
That is incredibly important. Such measures will make a big difference to businesses, and any little bit of help would be fantastic at this time. I speak a lot to publicans in my constituency about the issue.
The fundamental question at the heart of this debate is what exactly we are trying to preserve. If the answer is an architectural asset, the planning and listed buildings systems provide important tools. If the answer is a building with historical significance for its community, local heritage lists and assets of community value provide routes for recognition. If the answer is the opportunity for a community to take ownership of a pub when it is sold, the community right to buy is directly relevant. If the answer is a business that needs to operate on sustainable commercial terms, tenancy rules and wider economic conditions also matter.
The answer is often all those things at once, but different problems may require different solutions. A pub can retain its exterior while losing its historic interior; it can retain its architectural character while ceasing to function as a pub; and it can be purchased by a community group and still struggle to cover its costs. Equally, a pub that is not nationally listed may remain a thriving centre of community life for generations. The challenge is to design legislation that recognises those differences, rather than treating every heritage pub as if it faces identical risks.
The question is not whether heritage matters—it plainly does; it is how Parliament can best protect it. I want to bring this debate back to the people and places of Warrington South. When we speak about the borough’s brewing heritage, we are discussing a history of work, enterprise and community. When we speak about 4T’s Brewery, we are discussing the continuation of brewing traditions and the entrepreneurial spirit that keeps them alive. When we speak about historic pubs, from the Barlow Mow to the Ferry Tavern, we are discussing buildings that connect us to earlier generations. When we speak about Warrington Oktoberfest, we are discussing volunteers, charities and residents coming together to turn community spirit into practical support for others.
Those things deserve attention from Parliament. But the best way to protect them is not necessarily to create the largest possible number of new legal requirements; it is to identify the risks accurately, use existing powers effectively and ensure that any new powers address a genuine gap. It is to support independent brewing and the hospitality businesses that give local products a market and to consider a building’s heritage alongside the economic circumstances that determine whether a business can continue to operate. Warrington has a proud brewing history and its pubs are part of the social and architectural story of our town.