Employment Rights Bill

Sarah Gibson Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 21st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Gibson (Chippenham) (LD)]

Broadly speaking, the Liberal Democrats support the Government’s desire to modernise employment rights and make them fit for the modern working world. I hope the Government will appreciate our constructive scrutiny of the Bill today, to ensure that it is as helpful as it can be, for workers and small businesses. In the interests of transparency, I would like to mention that I have been a small business owner for most of my adult life, but I have also been an employee. I will start by outlining the improvements that the Government should make to better support carers, parents and those who fall ill. I will then move on to what adjustments must be made so that small businesses receive adequate support.

Members across this House will know that fixing our social care system and adequately supporting carers is a key issue for the Liberal Democrats. The Bill makes no clear statutory commitment to introducing paid carer’s leave. That omission strikes us as a missed opportunity for the Government to adequately support carers’ ability to juggle employment with their caring responsibilities. The Government’s “Next Steps to Make Work Pay” paper, which accompanies this Bill, commits to reviewing the implementation of paid carer’s leave. However, the Liberal Democrats believe that the Government should go a step further. We will be looking to strengthen the legislation in this area, and we hope that the Government will not waste the opportunity to make genuine progress on carer’s leave. As ever, I am happy to meet Ministers at any time to discuss this in greater depth.

The Bill could do more to support parents. We welcome the Government’s proposal that parents should be able to benefit from support, irrespective of how long they have worked for their employer. We also support the proposal to introduce new rights to bereavement leave, which will allow employees to take much-needed leave from work to grieve the loss of a loved one. This will be especially important to those who lose a close relative or who experience a miscarriage.

The Liberal Democrats have called for measures to support parents through unemployment, and to extend parental pay and leave to self-employed parents, as has been mentioned. We have also called for measures to increase statutory maternity leave and shared parental leave to £350 a week, and to increase pay for paternity leave, with an income cap for high earners.

In addition to improving the Bill’s support for carers and parents, we also believe it could do more to support people when they fall ill. At £116.75 a week, statutory sick pay remains far below the minimum wage and is effectively a disincentive to take time off. This has a severe impact on public health, productivity and, ultimately, economic growth. A higher rate of sick pay would enable people to take time to recover without having to worry about making ends meet. Of course, any such measures should go hand in hand with appropriate financial support for small businesses.

That brings me to how this Bill can be improved for the benefit of small business owners, and I have already stated my interest. It is vital that small businesses are actively consulted on how to support them with any additional costs that the Bill may bring. Having spoken to many SMEs in my constituency, I would like to know what consideration the Government have given to the Bill’s proposals on changes to unfair dismissal during probationary periods. How will small businesses, which do not have the resources of HR professionals, be supported through these changes? Unfortunately, much of the crucial detail that would help such businesses to prepare for the impact of the Bill has been left to secondary legislation and further consultation. Although we support as much consultation as possible, the lack of detail in the Bill does not facilitate certainty and stability for businesses or workers.

The Liberal Democrats urge Ministers to ensure that new measures to support workers go hand in hand with support for small businesses, starting with the reform of our broken business rates system. The current system effectively taxes business premises and machinery, which discourages investment and heavily burdens key sectors in my constituency, from retail and manufacturing to renewable energy production. Again, if Ministers are open to meeting me and my Liberal Democrat colleagues, we would be happy to discuss our proposal for reforming this broken system and bolstering our SMEs.

This Bill has the potential to mark a new chapter in how we deliver fairness for both business owners and employees. We believe it will modernise our legislation to reflect the needs of today’s workforce.

[Mr Will Forster (Woking) (LD)]

My hon. Friend has said that the Bill does not go far enough to support families. In my Woking constituency, 350 children are unable to join the Scouts because of a lack of volunteers. Does she agree that the Government should consider adding to the Bill a right to ask for statutory volunteer leave?

[Sarah Gibson]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about volunteering across the country.

But the Government must go further. We must do more to support carers, parents and those who fall sick. The Bill must do more to provide small businesses with certainty, stability and transparency. We on the Liberal Democrat Benches look forward to the Bill’s passage and will work with colleagues to ensure it delivers on its full promise, but we hope that our proposals to improve the legislation are fully considered.

Building Safety and Resilience

Sarah Gibson Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Gibson (Chippenham) (LD)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to make my maiden speech in this building safety debate. I congratulate the hon. Members for Bromley and Biggin Hill (Peter Fortune) and for Calder Valley (Josh Fenton-Glynn), my hon. Friend the Member for Guildford (Zöe Franklin) and the hon. Member for Burnley (Oliver Ryan) on the love that they have shown for their constituencies.

My first contribution to this House was in the Prime Minister’s statement on Grenfell last week. We must not forget in this debate that that tragedy was also a fault of failing building safety and Government accountability. Having worked in the construction industry as an architect in Spain, and having run an architectural practice in the UK for most of my professional life, I have seen far too often the construction industry fall foul of silo-working and cost-cutting. Value engineering is what we call it in the trade, but Members should not be fooled; it adds no value and is very rarely engineered.

Many families in my constituency, and indeed across the UK, are bearing the effects of poor building safety in various ways. Homes are suffering from mould and damp, as the hon. Member for Burnley mentioned, with complaints to housing associations, letting agencies and landlords often falling on deaf ears. I urge the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government in its proposed review of the building regulations to introduce stronger measures to protect the most vulnerable residents from mould and damp. Everyone deserves a safe and comfortable home to return to.

However, I do not want Members to leave today’s debate thinking that the only notable point of the beautiful constituency of Chippenham is that it is damp, although there is no doubt that the west country is beautifully green for a good reason. Chippenham sits in Wiltshire, in the south-west of England, and we have a proud industrial heritage too, with mills originally reliant on the River Avon, and later on the Great Western Railway, with its many impressive tunnels and viaducts. That railway currently stops only in Chippenham, so I will spend the next few years demanding that Corsham and Royal Wootton Bassett are also in receipt of stations.

Quality employment and prosperity came with the railway when it was built. Access to transport is equally important to the growth of the area today. It will play a vital part in my constituency’s future as an innovation hub. We are currently home to some fantastic cutting-edge businesses, from the renewable energy sector through to the health sciences. They are complemented by the provision of excellent technical education—namely that provided by the Wiltshire college and university centre, whose campuses in Lackham and Chippenham will be critical to the growth of dynamic young companies in the future. I intend to be a strong voice championing skills, employment and opportunity in that part of the world.

My father, who unfortunately died very young, instilled in me a passion for technology and innovation. But he also left me with a very special interest in vintage cars and all things mechanical, so I am incredibly lucky now to be married to David, who built the very first electric Austin Seven some 30 years ago. Slow, old cars are the perfect way to drive through a constituency that hosts some of the most beautiful towns and villages in the country—contrary to the views that some colleagues have expressed today. Many of those places will be familiar to the House. The town of Corsham is home to free-ranging peacocks and, surprisingly, can be recognised in “Poldark.” The town of Calne—rightly called “the town of discovery”—was home to Joseph Priestley, who discovered oxygen, while Laycock, with its picturesque abbey, was home to William Fox Talbot, the inventor of the photographic negative, and appears in more films than I have time to mention. Royal Wootton Basset, with its proud connection to RAF Lyneham, was granted royal status thanks to the community’s important role in the repatriation of those killed in the service of this country.

The recent boundary changes mean that I have inherited the honour of representing those communities from both Michelle Donelan and James Gray. James will be known to this House for his chairmanship of the armed forces parliamentary scheme, which has done wonders to ensure that we gain an insight into the lives of those who have committed to serving in our military. Michelle Donelan has been a strong advocate for Chippenham town centre, and her work in that area will not be forgotten. Before Michelle and James, Chippenham was represented by my Liberal Democrat friend and colleague Duncan Hames, whom I thank for his advice and support in what has been a hectic start to life in the Commons.

Over the past weeks, many people have asked me if I have had a restful recess. I have found myself raising an eyebrow and explaining that it has been the busiest period of my life. Not being on these Benches over the summer has meant that I have been able to hit the ground running at home and raise specific concerns about a lack of NHS dental provision and access to GPs across the constituency. I have also been able to meet campaigners and lend my support to important issues in the constituency, such as Chippenham’s “One Plan,” Bassett’s proposed active travel network, and the campaign for a new health centre in Calne. In backing those projects, I intend to ensure that there are careers for young people in my area, and options for those hoping to change career in later life. Like many Members, my own career has taken a dramatic change of tack recently. I hope that the House will not mind if I briefly explain how I find myself here today.

I was lucky enough to be born into a family that cared deeply about my education. With their support, and a grant from Wiltshire council, I was able to study architecture at Kingston and at University College London before registering as an architect in Spain. Some years later, I returned home to Wiltshire and became a town and unitary authority councillor. It is from that perspective of positive experience in local government that I felt I could do more to promote the interests of my community here in Westminster, and I am honoured that they thought so too.

I end my maiden speech by wishing my brother, Luke, a very happy birthday, and by thanking my mother, who has been a great source of strength to me. She canvassed tirelessly on my behalf throughout the election campaign, even in the pouring rain in what we now all know to be a rather damp constituency. Finally, I give my thanks to my constituents. Whether they voted for me or not, I promise to work hard and champion them all in everything I do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

I am delighted to be able to speak in this debate. I compliment and congratulate the Members who have made their first speeches: the hon. Members for Bromley and Biggin Hill (Peter Fortune), for Calder Valley (Josh Fenton-Glynn), for Guildford (Zöe Franklin), for Burnley (Oliver Ryan) and for Chippenham (Sarah Gibson), which is the town where I was born.

This debate, about building safety, comes on the back of the report by Sir Martin Moore-Bick on the Grenfell fire, which should be sobering reading for anybody who has any sort of public duty or is in public life. It catalogues how privatisation, underfunding, inadequate surveillance and inadequate supervision led to a vulnerable group of tenants being left in a desperate situation in which a large number died. He concludes in his report that every single one of those deaths could have been avoided, had there been proper regulation and protection. His proposals are far-reaching, and I look forward to the Government responding in detail, in the near future, on how they will ensure proper regulation and supervision and, above all, a role for local government as the local inspectorate of all buildings to ensure that they are all safe and that all the materials are correctly put together. The idea that deregulation can bring about safety is obviously nonsense, and this report has shown it to be such.

[Sarah Gibson]

Recent changes to building regulations require approved inspectors to be certified. That is welcome, but does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the original scheme, under which supervision was by local authorities, which were not financially tied to the contractor, developer or employer, was considerably safer than this deregulated system with approved inspectors? Perhaps the Government should look carefully at changing that.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

The hon. Member is absolutely right. The watchword has to be independence, of both inspection and regulation. The idea that developers can mark their own homework has to be got rid of sharpish, because it is a dangerous precedent, and we can now see the results of it.

This horrible fire at Grenfell did not come from nowhere. There was the Knowsley fire and the Lakanal House fire. There were constant references to the dangers of inadequate or inappropriate cladding, the lack of fire equipment, and the fire risk that goes with that. This has to be the most massive wake-up call there has ever been. It also shows that communities, such as those in Grenfell, were treated with contempt by their local authority, regulators and others. They simply did not care. In Grenfell, there was a mixed group of working-class tenants living in a dangerous place. On the day that the report came out, one of the residents was asked about it, and he said that the cladding might as well have been made of firelighters, given the danger it presented to them all. Something quickly needs to be done about that.

We must look at how we deal with the need for remedial action. When the Grenfell fire took place, inspections were immediately made of buildings all over the country; that was the right thing to do. By and large, local authorities responded well and removed cladding. In my local authority, Islington, cladding was discovered on one local authority building, Fyfield House, and that was immediately removed by the authority. However, I find that buildings in the private sector and other buildings in which leaseholders live have not been dealt with in the same way or with the same efficiency, and tenants, residents and leaseholders are paying the price for that. To give an example, there is a nice leasehold development in my constituency called Highbury Square. It was apparently well built and has good facilities. The problem is that it has cladding that has not been certified or approved, so the insurance costs are very high. The developers do not want to pay for the remedial work, and despite numerous meetings being held with Ministers in the previous Government and so on, no action has been taken. The families living there cannot sell or move. They cannot do anything. They are absolutely stuck.

I said in my intervention on the Minister that those who have had to incur huge insurance costs just to remain in their flat should be compensated, and the stress among people who live in such places should also be recognised through compensation. If there is a huge dispute about who will pay for all this—I am quite sure that many companies will try to take legal action against the Government—surely it is the Government’s responsibility to step in, if necessary, and do the work. They can charge it to the owners of the freehold or leasehold who are the cause of the problem. In the case I mentioned, Aviva pension fund is responsible. In the case of the Drayton Park development in my constituency, which the Ministry is well aware of—I had several meetings about it with Ministers under the previous Government and many officials—it is Galliard Homes, which seems to be trying to evade its responsibility to ensure that the work is carried out.

I appeal to the Minister to look carefully at the excessive delays caused by endless arguments with developers and the owners of freeholds. Those delays have put people at risk and have led to enormous cost for them. I come across other developments all the time that seem to be in the same situation, including some of those at the former Arsenal stadium site. This debate is about all that.

In this debate, we also recognise how communities respond, and how they responded to the Grenfell fire. I went there the day after the fire, and met the firefighters who, unbelievably bravely, had been trying to deal with a fire the likes of which they had never seen before. They did not really have the wherewithal to deal with it. Their bravery was enormous and their stress was huge. Some of them received abuse from our media and others, who tried to put the blame on them. They are the last people who should be blamed. I also saw how the community came together. I have been on every one of the silent walks for Grenfell that take place every year on the anniversary, usually in the company of the former Member of Parliament for Kensington, Emma Dent Coad, who did a fantastic job, not just at the time as the MP, but since then, campaigning for safety and justice for the victims of Grenfell. It needs to be recognised that the community came together to support and to demand, and they expect answers from this Government, so that they can live in a place of safety in the future.

The last thing that I want to say—I know that others wish to speak—is that fundamentally this debate is about housing and how we treat people. We have had market domination of the principles of housing. We have gone away from the principle of housing as a human right and instead to a market solution to it all. We can see the results: several thousand people rough sleeping every night; tens of thousands of people living in grotesquely overcrowded conditions; and many people—in my constituency, a third of them—living in the private rented sector, which is largely unregulated, insecure and very expensive.

I have been leafing through the Renters’ Rights Bill just produced by the Secretary of State. I welcome much of what I have read, but unless the Bill addresses the fundamental issue of the cost of private renting, instead of leaving it to the market to set the cost, areas like mine will suffer from social cleansing for a long time to come. Working-class families will be moved out because they simply cannot afford to stay.

We want to maintain the communities in our inner-urban and city areas in all parts of the country, so we need rent regulation, as well as security of tenure and all that goes with it. That means public intervention, building more council houses and taking the market element out of how planning decisions are made on building council housing. Instead, we should say, “The priority for all our community is a sufficient supply of good-quality, well-designed council housing.”

I finish on this thought: we have the potential to build some wonderful places, but also to take over many empty properties and convert them into some form of council or social housing. We need to ensure that housing is well designed, with sufficient open space and good room sizes. When developers are creating a home for someone to live in, they should think it through—changes in life, disabilities that may occur and everything else—and ensure that we have the highest possible quality social housing design for the future. This report could be a great turning point in the way that we deal with housing in our society—or it could be shelved and forgotten in a few years’ time. The people of Grenfell, who suffered and are still grieving the loss of others, will never let us forget it.