Money Transfer Accounts and Remittance Sector

Rushanara Ali Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Westminster Hall

[Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. First, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) for securing the debate and for working with me and other colleagues on this very important subject and the Save Remittance Giving campaign, which had the support of 47 Labour MPs and, later, MPs from other parties. Notably, it has also had the support of nearly 130,000 members of the public. The campaign has been led particularly by the Somali community, but there are others involved, including communities throughout the country who have a direct interest in remittance giving; many non-governmental organisations, such as Oxfam; and constituents whose origins are not in developing countries but who understand how important it is that we support remittance giving.

Remittance giving plays a vital role in reinforcing and complementing our international aid efforts to developing countries such as Somalia, and particularly areas such as Somaliland, which provide a beacon of hope for that country, showing how remittances, along with development aid and a transition to peace and stability, are vital. If we need an example of a country that could make great strides through remittance contributions, that is the country to look at. I will focus on Somaliland and Somalia today, because of the unique situation that there is no banking system in that country.

There are many parallels. The Syria conference starts today, and when we debate how countries can move towards a peace settlement, the question of countries in conflict or coming out of conflict without banking systems becomes ever more important. Somalia and Somaliland are an example of the importance of banking and remittance that, if we can find a solution to the current problem, will pave the way for other countries coming out of conflict that do not have banking systems. In such circumstances, people need to be able to remit legally—through legitimate means—in a proper banking process.

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I think the whole House supports the work that the hon. Lady and others have been doing in campaigning on remittances. She is perfectly right to draw the attention of the House to the fact that Somaliland and Somalia have no banking system—in Hargeisa, one sees people literally pushing wheelbarrows around with Somali shillings. Does she agree that one thing that the Department for International Development and all of us should be trying to do is help both Somalia and Somaliland to develop a genuine banking system? There needs to be a clearing banking system in both Mogadishu and Hargeisa if those countries are to have any sustainable development.

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[Rushanara Ali]

I could not agree more. There is a very important question for the Minister about the role that our finance Ministry, working with international Finance Ministers and with our International Development Secretary, can play in taking the lead on supporting countries that are making the transition, so that they can have an effective banking system. That has to happen simultaneously with efforts to find a solution on the issue of remittance. It is critical if we want to ensure that our security and our interests are also served.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The hon. Lady has referred several times to finding a solution. Does she agree with me and with an Oxfam spokesman who has said that what is really required is a long-term, sustainable fix to ensure that this problem does not occur?

[Rushanara Ali]

Yes, of course we need a long-term solution as well as an interim solution. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West set out brilliantly the background—how we got here. Barclays made its decision, following on from decisions that other banks had made, which has led to virtually no opportunities for money transfer companies to use banking facilities to carry out their business, and as a result, many have gone out of business. At this rate, there will not be many left if we do not get our act together and find an interim solution, as well as a long-term solution that involves coming up with an international framework.

Britain has led on these issues in the past and I believe that it can do so again. That is my appeal today to the Minister—that he will work with the Secretary of State for International Development and the Chancellor of the Exchequer and put genuine effort in during the short window of time that we have managed to gain, thanks to the injunction achieved by the company based in my constituency, Dahabshiil, led by Mr Abdirashid Duale. As a result of that, although other companies have closed, it is still going. It is virtually the last one standing, but it is also the biggest company that supports remittance to developing countries.

We have until October, and if a solution—an interim solution as well as a long-term one—is not found, we may see devastation in Somalia, because there are almost no other routes to get money in apart from physically carrying cash, which I am sure no one wants people to be doing, because of the dangers of criminality, terrorism, extremism and many other things. We cannot have a situation in which people must physically transport cash and place themselves at risk of being criminalised, not to mention being the target of criminals, as they try to get money to their communities because of the desperate situation.

Let me remind hon. Members of the context particularly of Somalia, but also of many other countries—we have seen this in Pakistan, Bangladesh and many other countries. At times of crisis, people need to get money into remote places, so even countries with a banking system struggle to enable people to get support—to get remittances—in. That is where money transfer companies play a vital role. They have intimate—close—networks and trusted relationships in remote villages around the world, whereby people can get money to those who cannot travel easily because the infrastructure is not good enough in those countries or because they live in remote places.

Money transfer companies are also vital in times of disaster, as we saw during the humanitarian disaster in east Africa, which affected Somalia, the floods in Pakistan and Bangladesh, the cyclones, and disasters in many other countries. We need to ensure that there are ways in which remittances can be given, so that the pressure on humanitarian assistance does not increase further, which undoubtedly it would do if remittances were prevented from getting to people quickly and safely. Global remittance flows are greater in value than all the international aid budgets put together. We need safe and legal—legitimate—mechanisms whereby people can get help to their families.

In the previous debate, the Minister himself said that his elderly family members had received remittances in the past and continued to do so. I have a similar experience, because my family do the same. It is a critical way in which people support each other. The British Muslim community donate millions of pounds in zakat, which also takes the form of remittances. All those contributions build a vital lifeline for people in developing countries who might not qualify for development aid, but who none the less receive support for education, health care and other costs that enables them to live a decent life.

Remittances contribute greatly to economic development, as I have seen in my constituency, where communities have come together to raise money. I attended a recent event at which some 500 people from the British Somali community got together to raise money. It was organised by some of my constituents who are here today: Ayan Mahamoud, Abdi Rashid Gulaid and many others. They raised nearly £1 million in one evening by calling on the community to act to rebuild their country, to rebuild roads and to rebuild infrastructure.

That is a case in point of communities helping themselves to rebuild their country, rather than depending on aid. We have heard a lot from Ministers from the Department for International Development about the need for self-reliance. I passionately believe that that is what people want in their own countries, and the best way to encourage that is to build a system of remittance through which people can send money legitimately to help rebuild their countries and lift the inhabitants out of poverty. Such a system can work alongside the important international aid effort to which we contribute.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West set out the background and described the inconsistencies inherent in the decision by Barclays. The Government must act to provide a medium-term and a long-term solution to this serious problem. The fact that 130,000 people got behind the campaign and tens of thousands more signed petitions—teenage Somali girls even went around markets and visited people’s houses to get them to sign up to the campaign—shows how much people believe this matters because it affects their lives. People talk about communities feeling disfranchised, but that is an example of a community that led the way because the bank’s decision affected their families and friends so directly.

If we can find a solution to support a country and a community that historically have felt let down by politics—international politics as well as our politics—we will show that we care passionately, as the Prime Minister has said, about countries such as Somalia and support their transition towards peace, stability and economic development. The best way to do that is by supporting legitimate ways to help people help themselves and their families through remittance.

The most urgent of the challenges we face is time. Thanks to the campaign, the support of Members from across the House and the engagement—with some pressure—of Ministers in the Treasury and the Department for International Development, we now have a framework. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West said, the action group on cross-border remittances needs urgently to meet and identify a chair. I hope that the Minister will set out in detail what will happen. We have a window of opportunity that nobody would have believed possible last summer, thanks to the work of the campaign, MPs and the media, and not least the support of double Olympic champion Mo Farah. His foundation, which uses Dahabshiil, has been directly affected because it will find it difficult to send money back to Africa. He said:

“I just cannot see how cutting the remittance lifeline squares with British foreign policy in the Horn of Africa. It will undo all the good work the government has achieved in the region”.

I echo his comments.

The Government have done good work in championing the cause of Somalia and Somaliland, and the Opposition have supported that effort through the Somalia conference. Whether a solution to the problem is found in the coming months—both an interim solution, to ensure that people can continue to remit to countries such as Somalia and places such as Somaliland, and a long-term solution—will make a critical difference to whether Somalia can avoid further conflict and devastation.

I hope that the Minister will push for the action group to come up with a solution that addresses the decision made by Barclays and other banks. Such banks need to feel that the regulatory framework allows them to provide banking facilities to money transfer companies without fear of big fines. There must be consistency and transparency in the decisions made to remove banking facilities from certain companies. The Government must learn lessons from the past, and look at what was done in cases where concerns were raised about money laundering.

Most importantly, as several experts have highlighted, the decision not to provide legitimate banking facilities to money transfer companies will simply drive the whole industry underground. We will return to the bad old days of money flows going into countries without regulation and without their Governments knowing how much money is going in. Some of that money will absolutely end up in the wrong hands, which is dangerous for those countries and for our security. That issue must be confronted. We need a solution that addresses issues of security and counter-terrorism. The withdrawal of legitimate banking facilities will open the way for such forces and present bigger dangers for us, particularly in countries such as Somalia and the surrounding region where there are major concerns about extremism and terrorism.

[Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD)]

Does the hon. Lady think that as part of the solution, more might be done to promote mobile money transfers? According to a survey by the Gates Foundation, the World Bank and Gallup, more than one in three adults already use mobile money in Somalia. Might that be an important part of the solution?

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[Rushanara Ali]

There is no question but that mobile technology can help, and many have cited M-Pesa as a potential example. The reality is that such technology does not go far enough, however. Not everyone can afford a mobile phone. In countries where mobile phones are cheap and there are banking systems and proper infrastructure, it is much easier to create the possibility of mobile phone transfer, but Somalia is a long way from that and, in the short to medium term, such a solution would not be adequate. In the long term, it might be a complementary facility, and I know that the action group will want to look into that.

However, mobile transfer is no substitute, and anyone who thinks that it might be is, frankly, living on another planet. Somalia has no infrastructure, and it does not have the required banking system. There are major challenges to using mobile technology to get remittances into the country; if that were not true, we would not be having this debate.

[Kevin Brennan]

Further to that point, is my hon. Friend aware that the survey that made those claims about mobile technology was based on 1,000 people in Hargeisa? That is hardly representative of Somalia as a whole.

[Rushanara Ali]

My hon. Friend is right. The integrity of that survey has been questioned, particularly by the Somali community in Britain. The remitters felt that it did not address the seriousness of the issue and was a superficial exercise. Frankly, going only into Hargeisa is not good enough. The trusted networks that organisations such as Dahabshiil and other money transfer companies use to reach people in remote places are critical to support across the country. That is the major challenge that we must address.

Some in my constituency, and elsewhere, have pointed out that if they want to get remittance in without the proper facility, which has so far been provided by Barclays, they will have to do so via Kenya. Family members would have to leave and go to Kenya, or to Hargeisa. If they live at the other side of the country, they would have to travel many hundreds of miles to get there. It could cost hundreds of pounds to get somewhere to access the remittance.

Imagine doing such a thing even in our country, never mind in a country without roads, safety, electricity, air transport and the necessary support. Add in the cost and it makes it pointless to get the remittance that family members might be sending. Remittance amounts might be small, but they are significant in providing support. The cost of retrieving the money, however, is too high if there is no direct route via money transfer companies that can get to remote villages. If there is no proper facility, the cost of people travelling to the capital, or to another country, is too high. That is not a solution.

I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) wants to speak, so I will start to conclude. I also want to hear from the Minister, and would like him to have as much time as possible to highlight the work he is doing on the issue. I know that he is working with colleagues across Departments on a solution to the problem. I hope he will have some good news.

Where do we go from here? We need strong international leadership from the UK Government. We have done that historically, so there is no reason why our Chancellor and the Secretary of State for International Development cannot lead the way. I welcome the fact that the working group involves the World Bank. If it was not for the campaign, and the pressure from the community and Members from all parties, that might not have happened. I am grateful to the Minister for rising to the challenge and recognising the significance of the issue, as well as the potential benefit for the UK if we lead the way to a solution.

There are economic benefits for us. If we can build a remittance framework to support economic development in countries in Africa, we can do more trade with such places in future. We need to be ahead of the curve. Other countries, such as China or India, are represented in Africa, while our banks are pulling people out, including the diaspora communities with strong links that could do more for our trading relationships in Africa. Remittance is the first route in for our businesses. I have seen that in countries such as India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and many others. There are potentially huge economic benefits if we create the climate within which the diaspora and minority communities can remit, trade and pave the way for our companies to follow, as has been the case in other countries.

There are longer-term benefits for the Treasury, and not only in engaging with the issue directly, coming up with an international solution and paving the way for our international partners. There are also benefits because for any country coming out of conflict without a proper banking system, or with one that has been devastated by conflict, the risks of money laundering and the financing of terrorism will be reduced if the security dimension is addressed and there are proper facilities. That is why Governments must step up. Companies such as Barclays, HSBC and others have said that they will be fined. Companies will have their motives, reasons and deep concerns about being clobbered with a big fine by US regulators. I have sympathy for that, but at that point the Government and the international community must step in to deal with the market failure. That is where I believe that our Government can play a vital role.

I am grateful to the Minister and the Chancellor for letting me know, informally, that they have had discussions on the issue. I would like to see more formal discussions at the G20 and other international summits where the issues of financial exclusion and remittance can be raised. I know that that has been done informally, but what plans does the Minister have to raise such issues more formally in the relevant forthcoming summits? On the role of other agencies, will the Minister explain how his Department is working with the Financial Conduct Authority, banks and other relevant agencies to come up with a solution? What role could the publicly owned banks play? Could we work with them to come up with an interim solution, as well as a long-term one?

I hope that the Minister will answer the questions that have already been asked, but I would also be grateful if he set out his plans for an interim solution, as well as a long-term one, before October. The time line has been set: if a negative decision is reached in October— the deadline set by the courts for Dahabshiil, the biggest provider to Somalia and Somaliland in my constituency—the vital remittance lifeline for Somalia will be removed. That is dangerous. Will the Minister be able to press on with a solution before then? If there is no long-term solution in that time frame, there must be an interim solution so that, beyond October, where there is a time lag, Dahabshiil does not face closure once again. That would be devastating to Somalia and Somaliland.

I thank colleagues from across the House for their contributions. I also thank the Save Remittance Giving campaign, of which I am very proud to be the chair, and the more than 100,000 people who supported it. I know that they will continue to campaign and to keep pressure on the Government. I hope that they continue to do so and work with their MPs, whichever party they belong to, to come up with a solution that will protect such a vital lifeline to millions of people in developing countries, especially Somalia and Somaliland.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

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[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) on securing this important debate. I listened carefully to him and to all other hon. Members who spoke. They set out a well-argued case and made their points well.

Remittances play a vital role in supporting the people and economies of countries throughout the world. As we have heard, they are a financial lifeline for the families of Somalis, Pakistanis, Poles and other diaspora groups that are living here in the UK. A healthy and functioning remittance sector is crucial for thousands of our constituents up and down the country. We heard from the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) about her personal experience, and she referred to comments that I have made about my own personal experience. My parents came to this country from Pakistan. They have many loved ones still living there who rely on remittances. I have seen what it is like if sometimes those remittances are missed or not received—it can make a real difference to day-to-day living standards—so I am grateful to Members who have shared personal stories, or told stories on behalf of their constituents, and their contributions show just how important a topic this is.

The UK is a global leader in the fight against money laundering and terrorist financing. Our banks and regulators have a vital responsibility to ensure that there is not inadvertent financing of criminal activities that could pose real risks to British citizens, as well as to national and international security. The Government are proud of our international role on this issue—we are setting the agenda. The Prime Minister received wide international recognition for his role in driving forward that agenda during our presidency of the G8 last year.

The right approach to tackling money laundering and terrorist financing should support a healthy and growing money transfer sector, rather than stifling legitimate money flows or financially excluding honest customers. I assure hon. Members again that the Government are committed to achieving that approach, and I shall set out the steps that we are continuing to take as we work closely with the private sector to facilitate a sustainable, market-based solution to what I accept is a real challenge.

The context for the debate is the trend in recent years for banks in many countries to withdraw accounts from money service businesses in response to perceived risks, and to reputational and regulatory concerns. That is important, because access to banking facilities makes remittances quick and transparent, and keeps costs low. We need to be clear that neither the Government nor regulators can compel banks to offer an account to any customer. Such a decision taken by a bank is private and commercial, and in accordance with their risk appetite and compliance with legal and regulatory requirements. The Government cannot intervene in banks’ day-to-day decisions. I was asked about the publicly owned banks in the UK, and the same applies to them: the Government cannot intervene in their commercial decisions or prevent—

[Rushanara Ali]

The question is about not the Government forcing banks to act in a certain way, but whether discussions have taken place to encourage banks to look at a solution so that they can play an active role. In the session that the Minister hosted last year, the chief executive of one bank was receptive to such dialogue. It is about working with them to find out whether there is a way forward, rather than telling them what to do. Some more enlightened individuals—board members—in the banking sector are worried about the impact of this situation and the damage it does to their banks’ reputations, and they are keen to explore this issue.

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Lady makes a good point. Banks should be concerned about the reputational impact that could arise as a result of their decisions. I confirm that the Treasury, the British Bankers Association and other representatives of the banking industry have discussed the issue. We are engaged with all banks, including state-owned banks. I stress that what a bank does, or does not do, is ultimately a commercial decision for it to take.

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[Sajid Javid]

I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman specifically whether a representative was nominated or if there will be one in the group, but I can certainly look into that and get back to him. I can confirm that we are working with the Somalia Government, through the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, on this issue overall.

The Somalia-focused working group may be of particular interest to many hon. Members in the Chamber. The group has been tasked with developing a safer corridor pilot to ensure secure remittance channels to Somalia. The group will work with the World Bank, which will provide technical expertise, and the pilot will aim to improve the security, transparency and oversight of this existing remittance channel. The Department for International Development has held consultations to identify appropriate representatives for the working group on the safe corridor. International partners, including the World Bank, the G20 and the international strategic alliance on law enforcement, are also supporting this work.

The group working on the pilot has agreed its final terms of reference, through consultation with stakeholders, and these will be presented to the action group next week. The Somalia-focused group, working with its partners, including the World Bank and others, believes that there is a one-year implementation for the pilot project.

Before I conclude, I want to make sure that I have answered questions raised by hon. Members, if I have not answered them already. The hon. Member for Cardiff West asked about international engagement. I hope that I have given him some insight into that, regarding our working with the G20, the World Bank and other international partners. We are also working through the EU. The hon. Gentleman knows that a payment services directive exists, but a second payment services directive is being negotiated with EU partners. We have taken a strong interest in that to ensure that whatever comes out of it does not make this situation any more difficult, but helps to improve it by encouraging the development of rules to deal with money laundering and our other natural concerns that are proportionate and do not make the situation difficult for banks throughout the EU. We have to keep in mind that Britain has, I think, more money service businesses than any other European country, so that is another important aspect of our international engagement.

Several hon. Members asked how well Government co-ordination is working. We have a steering group at Government level, of which the Treasury is part, which meets every single week. As well as the Treasury, the group involves the Cabinet Office, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the National Crime Agency, which provides information from our intelligence agencies that we think might help, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Department for International Development. The Treasury is a core part of that group, which has proved important in ensuring that we stay on top of the issue and treat it with the urgency that it deserves.

[Rushanara Ali]

I thank the Minister for his answers, but I have a couple of further questions. First, are there likely to be any impact assessments on cash couriers? Will the group’s terms of reference include what it would mean if cash couriers were going into those countries? What should Somali and other remitters expect? Secondly, will the terms of reference be published? Will there be opportunities for people in the community and the various sectors, and for the NGO community and Opposition Members, to feed in their suggestions?