Gurkha Pensions

Rupa Huq Excerpts

Monday 22nd November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

Before we begin, I remind Members that they are expected to wear face coverings when not speaking, in accordance with NHS guidance and that of the House of Commons Commission. I also remind Members that they are asked by the House to have a lateral flow test twice a week if coming on to the parliamentary estate—there is a test centre where you can do that, or you can do it at home. Please also give each other and members of staff space when seated, and when entering and leaving the room.

[Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 594155, relating to Gurkha pensions.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Huq. I will start by thanking Roy Brinkley, who himself is a veteran of the Grenadier Guards, for creating this petition. In total, it has attracted more than 107,000 signatures from all over the country, including 99 from Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke, enabling us today to discuss the important issues underlying the petition. I also thank Roy and his friend Jack for taking the time to talk to my office earlier today about the petition and what it means to them. I apologise for not being able to meet them in person; sadly, unexpected parliamentary business meant that I had to ask my staff to take the meeting on my behalf. Roy is here in the Public Gallery, and many Gurkhas have turned up in Westminster today to show their support for the campaign. Sadly, we are likely to be disrupted by votes, but I hope that Roy and everyone outside will feel that we have done their campaign justice this evening.

When preparing for today’s debate, I realised that I have not yet spoken on the Gurkhas in this place. I approach this topic as someone who holds all members of our armed forces in the highest possible regard. As a bit of family history, my great-great-uncle, Allan Gullis—who still lives today—fought on D-day; my grandfather and hero, Terrence Gullis, served in the Royal Marines during the Suez crisis; and my maternal grandfather, William Beacham, served in the Royal Air Force. There is also a strong veterans community in my area of Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke. We are proud to be the home of the Staffordshire Regiment. In Kidsgrove, the Royal British Legion has created a beautiful and touching war memorial garden, which is maintained and used all year round, and in Smallthorne, we have the fantastic veterans breakfast club at the Green Star pub, run by Martyn Hunt and Paul Horton. This family background, and the strong ties to the armed services that we have in Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke, were key motivations behind the Desecration of War Memorials Bill, which I tabled in June last year with my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland) to secure better protection for memorials to our glorious dead.

On top of that, today’s debate comes at a poignant time, following on so soon from Remembrance Sunday. Every year, we hold poignant services across north Staffordshire and our United Kingdom in memory of our glorious dead, and this year, it was a real privilege to be able to attend the memorial service at Tunstall memorial gardens and to lay wreaths and pay respects at memorials across my constituency. This year, it has also been very moving to be able to plant a cross in Parliament’s inaugural remembrance garden on behalf of the people of Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke in memory of heroes such as Gunner Zak Cusack from Smallthorne and so many other brave men and women who served Queen and country. As such, I speak today as someone who knows just how amazing all our veterans are, and I hope I will do this subject the justice it deserves.

First of all, let me say that I know how highly regarded the Gurkhas are and have been for over 200 years. Their service to the British Crown, both here and overseas, has been marked by excellence and sacrifice. As Roy said to my team earlier, they are some of the most loyal soldiers this country has ever had, and have served on the frontlines of every war that the UK has fought in for the past 200 years. Prince Harry famously served alongside them during his 2007-08 tour of Afghanistan, and commented that

“when you know you are with the Gurkhas…there’s no safer place to be”.

That record of excellence and heroism goes somewhat under the radar, so I thank Joanna Lumley and campaigners like her for bringing the Gurkhas into the limelight. Like many people, I became aware of the problem Gurkhas have been facing, because of Joanna’s tireless efforts and all she has done to get this issue on our political agenda. More recently, we have had our attention refocused by the hunger strike outside Downing Street—indeed, I understand that Roy knows one of the hunger strikers personally. Having spoken to colleagues in the Ministry of Defence and other colleagues in this place before today’s debate, I know that the Gurkhas’ service is incredibly highly valued and respected. Their distinguished service is a source of immense pride in both the UK and Nepal.

From engaging with Roy, I understand that the crux of the issue is the pension scheme, and the concerns of many Gurkhas relate to the historic Gurkha pension scheme that ran from 1948 to 2007. Roy is seeking equal pension rights pre-1997, including back pay. The scheme differed from the arrangements for the rest of the British armed forces, being based on the Indian army model, because the Brigade of Gurkhas was based in Nepal until 1 July 1997. Despite that, I understand that for most Gurkha veterans the 1948 Gurkha pension scheme provides a pension at least as good as, and in many cases better than, that given to their British counterparts with identical periods of service. Under the Gurkha pension scheme all Gurkhas who retired before 1 July 1997 also qualified for an immediate pension after only 15 years of service. This meant that, typically, they would qualify for a pension in their 30s. By contrast, before 1975 British soldiers had to serve at least 22 years before they could receive a pension. That meant Gurkhas were receiving pension payments for over 25 years before most British soldiers of the same rank and length of service qualified for any payments.

Following the change in the home base for the Brigade of Gurkhas in 1997, and a review of their terms and conditions of service in 2007, came a change to their pensions. Following this review, it was decided that the difference between the terms and conditions of service of the Gurkhas and those of their British counterparts would be eliminated. For Gurkhas currently serving, and those with service on or after 1 July 1997, there would be an offer to transfer to the armed forces pension scheme. The reason for this cut-off was that that was when the UK became the home base for the Brigade of Gurkhas and changes in immigration rules, backdated to 1 July 1997, meant there was an increased likelihood of retired Gurkhas settling in the UK on discharge. This change, to better reflect the changed circumstances of the Brigade of Gurkhas, who were no longer based in Nepal, was most welcome. However, it clearly has not solved all the outstanding issues.

It is welcome that there has been ongoing engagement between the UK Government, Nepali embassy officials and Gurkha veteran groups. The former Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer), met repeatedly with Nepali Ministers and veterans groups to discuss the outstanding issues. This led to the production of the technical report, with the Gurkha veterans’ grievances, together with the UK Government’s responses, set out in one document. This engagement has led to improvements in the Gurkha pension scheme, and in March 2019 a new package of measures was announced, including an increase to pensions under the Gurkha pension scheme of between 10% and 34% above annual inflation. There was also a new £25 million investment in medical and healthcare facilities in Nepal for Gurkha veterans.

The Government have since agreed to reconsider the decision on the increase to pensions made in 2019, with a public consultation earlier this year that sought views on how changes should be implemented to the Gurkha pension scheme. That consultation closed earlier this year, and after considering responses Ministers will make a fresh decision on the size of the uplift. The Ministry of Defence has also agreed to start a bilateral committee in December to discuss all Gurkha veteran welfare issues. This move is very welcome, but I understand from what Roy has said that, as yet, there is no certainty over the timings of this important committee. If it is possible, I would very much appreciate the Minister sharing more details of these plans in his response.

Another key issue that Roy raised with me was the ability of Gurkhas and their families to settle in the United Kingdom, to be granted citizenship and to have the right to vote. Non-UK service personnel, including Gurkhas, can also apply for settlement in the UK on discharge if they have served a minimum of four years and meet the requirements of the immigration rules. Settlement gives people the right to live, work and study here for as long as they like and to apply for benefits if they are eligible; they can use it to apply for British citizenship. However, I recognise that although there is a straightforward route to settlement the current system places a financial liability on those personnel and their families, costing £2,389 per person. I am therefore delighted that the MOD and the Home Office are currently analysing the responses received to a draft policy proposal to waive fees for non-UK service personnel if they apply to settle in the UK at the end of their military service, provided certain criteria are met.

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[Jonathan Gullis]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I totally hear his case. I am unfortunate not to have an individual in my constituency who can share their story. My hon. Friend is a doughty champion for his constituents. I am sure that the Minister has taken note of that and will take it away. Having spoken with the Minister, I have confidence that there will be a very fair settlement coming down the road. It may not be full retrospection, as some would want, but I think it will be a suitable and adequate arrival point, which will mean that everyone can start to look forward rather than backward.

Clearly, however, the issue has not been resolved, and some Gurkha veterans still have concerns, so I am pleased that the Government have been willing to engage and keep dialogue going. I very much look forward to seeing the response on the public consultation on waiving fees for non-UK service personnel, which I feel could be very significant, as well as to the outcome of the bilateral committee on Gurkha veteran welfare. I look forward to hearing what hon. Members and the Minister have to say on this important issue.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

Given the time we have left, and the time set aside for the three Front Benchers, I think everyone will get in if we remain within five minutes each. I call Ruth Cadbury.

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[Fay Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I agree and will talk about that later in my speech. The Gurkha soldiers I have met in my constituency tell me that they love living in Wales, that they have a strong connection and that it very much reminds them of life back at home in Nepal. Those in my constituency are valued members of the community, with many volunteering with the Brecon Beacons national park and many heavily involved in hospitality. I think of Khusiman Gurung who runs the New Gurkha Inn in Talgarth—I highly recommend its curry. Many are also active soldiers who work at the Infantry Battle School in Brecon.

As we have heard, pensions rights are an extremely emotive issue, but Britain has a strong history of protecting its soldiers and veterans. I will always campaign for us to do more, and I refer again to my campaign for the Welsh Government to create a veterans commissioner in Wales so that veterans across the UK can count on consistent support from all their Governments. I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Dr Wallis) and very much support the recent proposal to waive settlement fees for non-UK service personnel. I hope that the Minister will say more about that.

I cannot support the accusation made in the debate that the Gurkha pension scheme is less satisfactory than the armed forces pension scheme. The majority of Gurkhas residing in the UK who qualified for the GPS received an immediate pension after 15 years’ service. That is different from British soldiers on the armed forces pension scheme, who mostly do not serve the 22 years necessary to qualify for an immediate pension; instead, they have a preserved pension payable at the age of 60. Gurkha veterans are quite rightly well looked after in line with their years of dedicated service to the British armed forces.

I was delighted that, in 2019, the previous Minister for the Armed Forces—now in the other place—provided a £15 million increase to the Gurkha pension scheme, increasing pensions by upwards of 34%. That was a welcome and deserved increase. The Government have met and, I believe, protected cultural norms by ensuring that in the event of the death of a Gurkha pensioner, the surviving spouse, children, parents and dependent siblings are eligible for that benefit. It is very difficult to introduce improvements to public service pensions retrospectively, so I hesitate to call for amendments to the Gurkha pension as it stands. The large majority of Gurkhas in the UK qualify for the 1997 threshold and therefore are, most critically, eligible for the armed forces pension scheme, in addition to qualifying for the full range of welfare benefits, including pension credit.

To conclude—with just a few seconds remaining to me—I believe this to be a fair and just scheme that protects our most valued Gurkha veterans, ensuring that they enjoy a well-deserved retirement, but I urge the Minister to continue his engagement with Gurkha veterans and, above all, veterans right across the UK.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

To be honest, with the drop-out, we can elasticise the time limit of five minutes. I should have said that before—sorry. The first to take advantage is Matt Rodda.

[Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab)]

Thank you, Dr Huq. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, and I am grateful to speak in this very important debate. In the time available to me, I would like to make three points: to add my support to the points made by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) to pay tribute to the Gurkhas and their service to this country over nearly two centuries; to point out the high level of local support in Reading and Woodley for this community and their valued service; and to call on the Minister, to whose speech I am looking forward, to respond in detail to the issues raised.

First, I would like to spend a few moments paying tribute to the Gurkhas. They have given long and loyal service to this country, and it is worth mentioning some of the military history in a brief form. They were vital in world war one. That is less well known than their service in world war two, in which they played a crucial role in the defence of India. And they have taken part in many recent conflicts, defending this country and our interests overseas. Those include, obviously, the Falklands, Afghanistan and many others in between. We owe a debt of honour to these brave soldiers, and I hope that the Minister, who I obviously know is a gallant gentleman, will respond in an appropriate way.

I would like to point out, as colleagues have, the very high level of support in my community and to dwell on some examples of its support for the Gurkhas. I want to add that I was privileged some years ago to visit Nepal, where I was overwhelmed by the generosity of the local people and the wonderful support that they give to foreign visitors to their beautiful country.

Reading has a population of nearly 3,000 Gurkha and Nepalese people. As the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) mentioned, that is common in our part of southern England, close to Aldershot. Many are retired Gurkhas, although not all; we have some highly skilled migrants from Nepal as well. Many of them live on relatively modest incomes. We have a number of pre-1997 pensioners, living on very modest incomes in what is a high-cost area in the south-east of England. Many work in crucial local public services—as colleagues have said—such as in the NHS at the Royal Berkshire Hospital, for Reading Buses, where many serve as bus drivers, and in many other forms of public service, and indeed in local businesses. We are proud to have many small local businesses linked to the Gurkha community.

I would like to pay a very special tribute to one particular former soldier, Warrant Officer Gyanraj Rai, who has played a crucial part in this campaign, as colleagues will have mentioned; indeed, many colleagues here today will have met Gyanraj Rai because he has been on hunger strike not once but twice in the last 10 years. I first met him in 2013, when I was the Labour parliamentary candidate for the Reading East constituency, and I have to say that he is the most gallant gentleman. I pay tribute to him and all the other local people who have taken part in this campaign. Our hearts are with them and we wish them well in their endeavours. Gyanraj Rai has conducted himself with the utmost gallantry and dignity in this very difficult period. I should add that that obviously includes the recent hunger strike, when he was outside No. 10 Downing Street for a number of days, suffering greatly, as were the other hunger strikers.

I hope that the Government will now hear this plea and do what local communities, in their own way, have done to support our British Gurkhas. In Reading, we have excellent support from Reading Borough Council: it has given veterans priority in the council house waiting list. We have had other support from charities and from the community. There has been a wide range of forms of help, such as helping elderly veterans and particularly their families to learn English; there have been a number of other forms of support. There is huge support and appetite for continuing that and helping people to integrate into society in this country. I hope the Minister will reflect on that when he speaks later.

In conclusion, I want to ask the Minister to address these difficult issues. I appreciate the matter is hugely difficult and technical, as the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North mentioned, but it is high time the Government investigate further and begin a dialogue with the Nepalese Government, and continue and deepen their dialogue with the veterans. I look forward to the Minister’s speech.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

We have made good time. We have come to the last of the Back Benchers, but we will have to suspend at 7 o’clock. Let us see how far we get. I call Jim Shannon.

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On resuming—

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

The debate may now resume until no later than 7.44 pm. I call David Linden, who was so rudely interrupted.

[David Linden]

I will not hold that against you, Dr Huq.

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[Jonathan Gullis]

I thank all those who took part in this debate. Dr Huq, I do not know whether it is customary, but am I allowed to take an intervention while summing up? I noticed that my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Robert Buckland) was keen to intervene.

[Dr Rupa Huq (in the Chair)]

I am nice, so I will allow it.

[Robert Buckland]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) for allowing me to intervene. I have the honour of representing the Gurkha community in Swindon, and I have wrestled with these issues for many years. Does he, like me, take some encouragement from the Minister’s hard work, particularly on the uplift and the negotiations he has been conducting with the intercession of the Nepalese embassy since September?