Voyeurism (Offences) (No. 2) Bill

Ross Thomson Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wednesday 5th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. We need to have this debate in relation to these crimes. None the less, if we find ourselves in a situation where the motivation is the sole means by which we decide to move ahead or not, then we are providing a bolthole that will give people a defence. I hope that the Department will be discussing further with its counterparts in the Scottish Government exactly why the prosecution rates are so low there. If there are concerns that we are giving a line of defence on the grounds of motivation, we must be very careful. Are we prioritising the right issue, or is it, as I was trying to explain, rather a matter of proportionality when it comes to sentencing and knowing what the motivation is?

I will now speak in support of amendment 5, which seeks to close the biggest loophole in this legislation—namely, that it would be an offence to take an upskirting picture but not necessarily an offence to distribute it. When the amendment was introduced in Committee, the Minister explained that there were already statutes that might capture the distribution of such photos, such as section 127(1) of the Communications Act 2003 and section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988. Just as the motivation clause of this legislation means that not all upskirting would be outlawed, nor does the present legislation outlaw distribution in all cases.

We should not be passing legislation that only works to a certain extent. I appreciate that the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport and the Law Commission are working together to look into the onward sharing of images as part of their review in relation to online abuse, but failing to include anything in this legislation about distribution risks creating a giant loophole that would facilitate the further distress of victims. It is an entirely predictable outcome that we can see from where we stand.

We have the opportunity to address this issue now, and we should seize it, instead of holding back. When the original upskirting legislation was passed in Scotland, it had to be followed up with additional legislation to cover the distribution of these images. The UK Government unfortunately appear blithely to be following the process of the original legislation in Scotland. I propose that we take the opportunity to learn from the pitfalls experienced there, rather than run headlong into the same complexities. I urge the Minister to commit to work with Scottish legislators to strengthen the Bill.

I encourage the UK Government to join colleagues across the House, who have made some excellent speeches this evening, in supporting the amendments. Otherwise, they risk waving through legislation whose excessive complexity and obvious loopholes will hobble it from day one.

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

I will keep my remarks very short, Mr Speaker.

I want to begin by acknowledging why we are here discussing this very important issue: the incredible work of Gina Martin and her lawyer, my fellow Aberdonian Ryan Whelan. They have worked so hard to campaign on this issue, raise awareness of it and take it forward. I remember meeting Ryan in my constituency office and talking about Gina’s experiences a victim of upskirting, and I just could not believe that this was happening across England and Wales. It felt wrong that it was happening, and that certainly motivated me to get involved in the campaign to give justice to women and victims, and to ensure protection for all young women.

I thank all Members of the House because the Bill has had genuine cross-party support from the Labour party, Plaid Cymru, the Liberal Democrats and the Scottish National party. Their real support for the Bill has helped it to progress so swiftly through the House. It is at moments like this that Parliament shows itself at its best, with cross-party co-operation to put something on the statute book that will do good for our constituents.

We all came into Parliament to make a difference. We want to be able to serve our constituents, to change the law, to right wrongs and to protect some of the most vulnerable. Together, we are doing that. So often people see on television the spats that we have—there will be many more—and the rowdy Prime Minister’s questions, but often moments like this, which I genuinely think are when our Parliament is at its best, do not get coverage.

The practice of upskirting—taking a photograph up a person’s skirt or clothes without their consent—is truly horrific, and those who have been the victims of such a crime have been clear about how it has personally affected them. Some have described their experiences of upskirting as “scarring”, “a real invasion”, “embarrassing” and “humiliating”. When the Minister talked to the Committee, she referenced the fact that one victim described the invasion of upskirting as making her want to “peel off her skin” and scrub herself clean.

There is a real gap in the law that needs to be filled, and we can do that. This is the moment to do it because upskirting is a terrible and horrific crime. It is a horrendous invasion of privacy, and it is right that offenders will be appropriately punished following the creation of a specific upskirting offence. The whole House will be able to send a clear message to potential perpetrators that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

Voyeurism (Offences) (No. 2) Bill (First sitting)

Ross Thomson Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Wera Hobhouse]

Q Do you think the Bill strikes the right balance between protecting the victim and protecting individuals who accidentally take such images?

Gina Martin: I do, yes.

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

Q Thank you very much for coming in, Gina, and for everything you have done to campaign on this issue and to raise awareness—that is the reason we are here today.

Do you think the impact of the Government seeking to bring in this new legislation as soon as possible will be on the side of victims? Do you think this is the right direction to go? I would like to hear your views on whether you think we are doing the right thing, essentially.

Gina Martin: I do, yes, and I think the point you made that the speed at which we do this should be as quick as possible is really important. Upskirting happened to me at a festival a year ago yesterday, and yesterday, Sunday, I received a message from a 16-year-old girl who went to the very same festival, where it happened to her twice by the same person. That shows that this is happening as we sit here and are dealing with it. What we are doing now is absolutely imperative.

[Ross Thomson]

Q In terms of ensuring we close this particular loophole in the law, which you have rightly exposed, do you think we need to keep the focus particularly on the issue of upskirting, to ensure that we can get the Bill passed as quickly as possible and also send out a clear message that this type of behaviour is unacceptable?

Gina Martin: That is incredibly important to me. I think it has to be focused, it has to be simple and it has to focus on this one issue. We all know there are other broader issues that we want to focus on, but this is an upskirting Bill and it has to focus on just that.

[Laura Smith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)]

Q Women’s Aid and Professor Clare McGlynn have argued that the Bill’s scope needs to be extended so that victims of all image-based sexual offences have the right of anonymity in court. What are your views on this?

Gina Martin: Again, we need to deal with a lot of valuable issues. Do I think this Bill needs to cover all of them now? No, I think this is an upskirting Bill and the most important thing is that we cover this problem quickly and simply, and afford women the protection they deserve as soon as possible. I would argue that this is a Bill about upskirting and that those issues that Clare has brought forward should be dealt with properly and with scrutiny at a later date.

Upskirting

Ross Thomson Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

I thank the hon. and learned Lady for her comments. We have looked very closely at the Scottish legislation. There is a slight difference between the legislation in Scotland and in England. There is no public order offence in Scotland, so there was a bigger gap in Scotland than there was here. We have, however, looked very closely at that legislation. Our proposed legislation is not identical, but it is modelled very closely on the Scottish legislation.

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

I am delighted to welcome Gina and Ryan as guests today in the Gallery. Does the Minister agree that the upskirting campaign led by the extraordinary Gina Martin, supported by her lawyer and fellow Aberdonian Ryan Whelan, is worthy of the praise of this House? We owe Gina so much for her courage in raising this issue and fighting for change. That should be put on the record, because we need to make sure that this practice is truly and well outlawed.

[Lucy Frazer]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Gina Martin and her lawyer Ryan are both in the House today. They should be commended for the work they have done to ensure that this becomes law. They have done an immense job in highlighting the issue and ensuring the legislation is put on the statute book.

Access Rights to Grandparents

Ross Thomson Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for making that important point. One of the important considerations is the need to ensure that children’s welfare is paramount. Some kind of court action is probably required, but we can make it a hell of a lot easier. I am calling for an amendment to section 1(2A) of the Children Act to provide for the court to presume that the involvement of a grandparent in the life of the child concerned will further the child’s welfare, unless the contrary is shown. It is important to note the phraseology. That kind of amendment would not grant grandparents the right to involvement in the child’s life if a case be made that it would bring harm to the child in question.

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this very important debate. I have been supporting constituents in Aberdeen South who have been denied access to their grandchildren, and I have been struck by the role of social media. Facebook posts can be used as a weapon, and grandparents sometimes feel punished by them. Will my hon. Friend join me in calling for UK Government action not just in England and Wales but in Scotland to address these points?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I will indeed stand united with my hon. Friend in calling for similar action in Scotland. This issue affects all nations of the UK, and I hope we can act with one voice.

There are unintended consequences to any change in the law. In the previous debate on this issue, questions were asked about what a change in the law would mean, in terms of clarity about who had the ultimate right over children and grandchildren. The Minister is extremely capable and is surrounded by a very capable team at the MOJ, so I am fairly confident that we can find a form of words that will work. I do not want every single iteration of unintended consequences to prevent us from doing the right thing.

I hope that this debate will raise awareness of the anguish that grandparents and grandchildren across the country feel, and that my brief summary of just a fraction of the cases I have come across demonstrates to the Minister that the status quo is simply not acceptable. I wish to conclude with the words of a grandparent who sent me an email just last night. She very eloquently said:

“My story has been going on for 15 years…The pain I have and still feel is indescribable and affects every aspect of my life…dreading Christmas, Easter, birthdays, mother’s day, summer breaks…all the times when you would hope to see the grandkids. Instead, just pain and heartache—a life sentence. So although at 70 years of age I will probably die before I’m forgiven whatever it is I’ve done, you may be able to help the hundreds of poor souls suffering the same torment.”

I wish to say to that lady that I will indeed do what I can to help, and I call on the Minister to do the same.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Ross Thomson Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 11th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kerr]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Stephen Gethins]

I shall come to both hon. Members shortly—they will have ample opportunity.

The Government’s approach was rejected in June, and we should all be mindful of the fact that what has been delivered in its place is a Parliament of minorities. That is commonplace at Holyrood. It is something that we had to get used to, and it is something that we shall all have to get used to. A Parliament of minorities is clearly a challenge for the Government, but it is a challenge for the Opposition as well, because we must all show that we are willing to work in a constructive way if the Government are willing to listen. That is not easy for us. The SNP remains committed to Scotland’s membership of the European Union. I want to see Scotland as an EU member state, and I am proud that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to support that. However, given the devastating impact of the Government's lack of strategy, it is up to this Parliament, and all parliamentarians, to step up to the mark.

The mess that we are in is not entirely the Government’s fault. I think that Vote Leave bequeathed that mess by presenting a blank piece of paper, which means that it is up to us to try to fill in those many, many blanks. Having said that, the Government have had five months since they triggered article 50 and 15 months since the EU referendum. Ministers bear culpability for the present situation, but Ministers who were part of Vote Leave bear particular culpability. For instance, there is the Secretary of State’s own yardstick:

“I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a…round of trade deals”.

Where are they? In the face of such chaos, all Members have a responsibility—each and every one of us. We need to put our differences to one side.

There is scope to do that, as we have put together a compromise. On this anniversary of devolution, I want to pay tribute to the Labour party and Plaid Cymru, which were able to put aside their differences and to try to come up with a common position. I know it was not easy for Members of both parties to do it, but they did, and full credit to them both for doing so. The Scottish Government put together a committee of experts to come up with a compromise, and I note that in the aftermath of the referendum—here is the cue for Conservative Members—Scottish Labour and the Scottish Conservatives called for retaining membership of the single market. In fact, the Scottish Conservative leader—who knows, maybe the future Westminster Conservative leader—said:

“Retaining our place in the single market should be the overriding priority.”

I would certainly hope that Ruth Davidson’s Conservatives will do the right thing and stand by their leader. I wonder if they are Ruth Davidson’s Conservatives or Theresa May’s Conservatives when it comes to this—they are staying seated, saying nothing whatsoever.

The Bill also represents one of the biggest power grabs that we have seen. I note that one MP said—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

Let us cut through the political smoke and mirrors that we have heard in this debate and be clear about what the Bill actually sets out to do. On the day the UK leaves the EU, we need to be ready and prepared to take back control of all the laws and regulations that for the last 40 years have been entirely controlled by Brussels. This Bill enables us to carry out the express will of the people, following through on their instruction to end our membership of the EU. To oppose the Bill now is to oppose that fundamental principle and constitutes an act of betrayal against the referendum result and the will of the people, who we trusted to make the decision on our EU membership.

I am in no way surprised that SNP Members want to use the Bill to thwart Brexit. True to their nationalist politics, the SNP hailed the votes of 1.6 million Scots as meaning that Scotland voted remain—they were Scotland’s voice. Meanwhile, the votes of over 1 million Scots were simply airbrushed out of the picture altogether. Members of this House might not be aware that 400,000 of those leave voters in Scotland were SNP supporters. Following the recent logic of Scotland’s own Brexit Minister, Mike Russell, in evidence to committee, the 400,000 SNP leave voters, not to mention SNP leave MSPs, are somehow hostile to devolution. On the day that we mark the 20th anniversary of the referendum to create the Scottish Parliament, Mr Russell’s remarks are yet another incredible attack, although this arrogant dismissal of the 1 million Scottish leave voters follows an SNP pattern of trying to portray them as simply not existing.

Leaving the EU will make Scotland’s Parliament inherently more powerful, with new powers over areas that the EU currently legislates in. Not only does the SNP position on new powers show how truly brass its neck is; it shows the shameless depths of scaremongering that the SNP will delve into to play constitutional tricks, fuelled by their politics of division. By voting against the Bill, the SNP will vote against more powers for Holyrood and against Nicola Sturgeon and her Government’s making more decisions in Scotland. Though, to be fair, I cannot blame Nicola’s Westminster colleagues for not wanting more powers for Scotland, given the Scottish Government’s dreadful performance on education, health and the economy, after nearly a decade in power. Given that track record, I can see why those on the SNP Benches are feart to give Nicola Sturgeon more power. Naturally, they want to hold on to their seats here.

I listened to the hon. Member for Glenrothes (Peter Grant) on Monday railing about how the people of Scotland are sovereign and that that needs to be protected against some imaginary Westminster power grab. Where was the SNP’s belief in sovereignty over the last 40 years, when laws were imposed on the people of Scotland by the EU without debate in this place or, in the last 20 years, in Holyrood? No option for debate, no option to amend, no option even to reject—where was the SNP’s concern for sovereignty then? Given that the SNP still wants the EU to retain those powers, its current argument is simply absurd. This Bill delivers our exit from the EU and it will make Scotland’s Parliament stronger. The decision that the SNP faces is: will it be stronger for Scotland or will it maintain its stance of being only stronger for Brussels?

Finally, for all those seeking to block the Bill, let us be absolutely clear. In frustrating the process, they are dismissing the voice of the public by not carrying out their instruction, and in doing so, they serve only to feed the voter disaffection with the democratic process and their distrust in politicians. There is more debate and argument to come in this place, and rightly so. However, at this stage Parliament should be uniting on the principle of this Bill. I urge Members to support it.