Assaults on Emergency Workers (Offences) Bill

Debate between Rory Stewart and Holly Lynch

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Friday 27th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Holly Lynch]

I entirely agree. That goes back to the earlier point that we cannot fix everything through legislation. I agree entirely that where there are shortcomings with this legislative approach, even if we withdraw it, we will not fix the problem. So what alternatives—the hon. Gentleman has rightly reflected on those—do we need to put in place? I am open to any and all suggestions—but without that legislation I am looking for alternatives.

[Rory Stewart]

First, I very much welcome the fact that the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) has proposed that these clauses be removed from the Bill. To answer directly the case made by the hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb), let me say that at the core of this problem is a problem of anxiety. The individual who is spitting blood at the police officer is exploiting a myth—they are exploiting something that simply is not true. Public Health England is absolutely clear that the chances of contracting a blood-borne disease through somebody spitting at you is close to zero. This is unbelievably important, because the most significant way we can prevent this epidemic of spitting, is by making it clear to the people doing the spitting that the terror they are trying to communicate is a joke—it is absurd. These people are, in the traditional sense of the word, “terrorists”; their intention is to spread terror. What they are trying to do is psychological.

Putting into the Bill something that reconfirms the psychological fallacy that someone can communicate a blood-borne disease through spitting will simply encourage these people to spit even more. What they are trying to do by spitting, in some deranged way, is to make a death threat. They are trying to say, “By spitting at you with blood, I am giving you a terminal disease”, but they cannot do that. The best response to someone who is attempting to produce a fiction or magic, and is trying to intimidate you through magic, is to say, “This is nonsense. What you have done to me is disgusting. I’ve got a gob load of spit on me, but there is absolutely no way you’ve harmed my health by doing this.”

That needs to be made absolutely clear, because there are two separate problems involved in this. One relates to the risk of transmission and the second relates to the nature of these tests. The risk of transmission of a blood-borne disease through spitting is, as Public Health England says, close to zero. The second problem is with these tests. The hon. Member for Halifax gave an example of a false positive, but there are also many examples of false negatives, and these tests are not timely—they cannot communicate an early transmission. Consequently, the only way in which a medical professional should respond to these cases is by focusing not on a test result, which is irrelevant because it is not reliable, but on the mode of transmission. In other words, if somebody has been spat at there should not be any post-exposure prophylaxis treatment given, regardless of an apparent result of a test.

If, on the other hand, someone has been injected with a needle, in almost every case PEP should be allocated, again regardless of the result of the test as that result might show up too late for the PEP to be effective. The proper medical procedure is therefore to focus on the mode, not the test. That means that in this case it would not be of significant use to test somebody, it would not be strictly necessary, and it would not be proportionate in balancing the benefit and the cost. The right to know would therefore not trump the right to privacy in this case.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Rory Stewart and Holly Lynch

Thursday 5th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Rory Stewart]

There are three elements in my hon. Friend’s question. First, I entirely agree that Gloucester is particularly vulnerable, because of its combination of fluvial and tidal flooding. Secondly, there is money in place for Gloucester: £5 million, with a six-year guarantee from the Treasury. Thirdly, I met the chief executive of Severn Trent two days ago. We are always interested in the role that other partners can play in ensuring that we have effective flood protection at a reasonable cost.

[Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab)]

3. What progress her Department has made on meeting the UN target of halving food waste by 2030.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rory Stewart)]

Britain is a leader in addressing the problem of food waste. We have managed to reduce household waste by 15% and retail waste by 7.2%, and the figures for 2014 suggest a further 3.2% reduction, but that will be dealt with mainly through the Courtauld 2025 agreement.

[Holly Lynch]

We know from Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall’s documentary “Hugh’s War on Waste”, which was shown earlier this week, that supermarket practices such as unnecessarily strict cosmetic specifications for products are contributing to the huge amounts of waste in the supply chain. What is the Minister doing to ensure that supermarkets take much more responsibility for reducing food waste in their supply chains?

[Rory Stewart]

The supermarkets and retailers in general are a very important part of the Courtauld agreement. I pay tribute to some of the retailers: Tesco has made progress on bananas, and there has been progress from the Co-op on potatoes with the Marfona range, which reduces potato waste by 30%, but I absolutely agree retailers have to play a larger role in reducing food waste in general.