Finance Bill (First sitting)

Roger Mullin Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Seema Malhotra]

He is certainly a veteran. If there is a record for the Minister who has steered the most Finance Bills through Parliament, if he has not won it already, I am sure he is well on his way.

When I mentioned to a colleague that the Bill has only 50 clauses, they expressed concern that the Government are already running out of business, as they were in the months running up to the election. I recall that when I served on the Finance Bill Committee in 2012, that Bill had three volumes and 227 clauses. Indeed, last year’s Finance Bill had 295 clauses. This year, the Finance Bill has 50 clauses, and we are scheduled to have only eight sittings.

[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

This is the third one in a year.

[Seema Malhotra]

I know it is. Perhaps the Financial Secretary does not have the same concerns.

Although some aspects of the Bill are to be welcomed, many others are worrying. The change to the climate change levy, for example, has been almost universally challenged. The increase in insurance premium tax, which will raise substantial amounts for the Government, will cause significant hikes in insurance premiums for millions of people across the UK, with possible adverse consequences for consumer behaviour that must be understood. Those issues were tackled, to some extent, in Committee of the whole House last week.

We need a Finance Bill that supports working people and does not penalise them, as the tax credit statutory instrument, which we discussed two days ago, does. We need a Finance Bill that supports business and provides long-term certainty, and which leads to investment now that will reap dividends in the future. A retrospective change to carbon taxes, for example, will not achieve that aim. That is the approach we will take in Committee.

Obviously it would not be proper to start proceedings without thanking the usual unsung heroes: not only the Treasury officials, whom I thank for their diligence, but the Clerks, Hansard and others who help keep our proceedings going smoothly.

I am sure I speak for all Members when I say that it is an honour and a privilege to serve on the Finance Bill Committee, and I am sure we will approach all the sessions in that spirit. Indeed, I hope we will scrutinise the Bill properly and methodically and do what we are all here to do, which is to serve the people of Britain.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

It is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, and that of your co-Chair, Mr Howarth, when he joins us later. I associate myself with the remarks of the shadow Chief Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston, and welcome the Clerks, the Hansard reporters and others who will assist us in the days ahead, although it will just be one day ahead for me.

I welcome the members of the Committee and in particular those who came into the House in May. On the Labour side, that is my hon. Friends the Members for Bradford South, for Halifax, for Dewsbury, for Torfaen and for Cambridge, and we will be joined by my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead. We should also mention the stalwart work of our Whip, my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe.

As has been said, this is the first ever Bill Committee for those new Members, and I remember when I served on my first Finance Bill Committee back in summer 2006. I checked back, and the Financial Secretary was on that same Committee. We know now that he has served on 11 Finance Bill Committees, so he certainly wins the prize. I am afraid I do not. I assure the Committee and him that we will scrutinise the Bill thoroughly, as is our duty. Members should be grateful that the Bill is much shorter than the Finance Bill in 2006, which had 21 sittings.

As an opening comment, the Bill sadly does little to help families and individuals on low and middle incomes, and I think that is a pity. Millions of those families have heard that they will be hit by the tax credit cuts that were voted through by Government Members earlier this week. Those savage cuts will come to be seen as the hallmark of the summer Budget of 2015, which was also a tax-raising Budget, but I will come back to that point.

In Prime Minister’s questions yesterday, we heard about a working family who would be hit badly by the cuts, and there will be so many more, because 3 million families will lose more than £1,000 a year. In my constituency, more than 8,000 families with children receive tax credits, of whom 5,300 are working families. The Bill does not contain that measure on tax credits, but it comes from the same Budget, so I will keep those families in mind as we work through all the issues in the Bill.

[Roger Mullin]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, along with my colleagues. I start by thanking everyone who has already been thanked, thus making sure that I miss no one out. I am slightly surprised that I am making this speech, because I did not know that this was how proceedings would begin, but on behalf of my colleagues, I would like to say that we look forward to scrutinising the Bill in detail. We are particularly unhappy about a number of matters, and we share the views already expressed by the Labour spokespersons.

We also want, through new clauses, to raise some matters that are of particular concern to Scotland and the people of Scotland, who are severely disadvantaged on a number of fronts by measures within the Bill. I hope we will contribute constructively and speedily. I had a wonderful experience when I attended the Sub-Committee of this Bill Committee on Monday; the thing I thought was particularly impressive was that it lasted one minute. I am sure this Committee will take a little longer, but we will do our best to contribute constructively and efficiently.

[The Chair]

Before I put the question, those who are long in the tooth in the House and those who are not have learned a lesson: most of the remarks just made were technically out of order—[Laughter.] However, within the half-hour available for this particular piece of the process, a Chairman is normally reasonably flexible.

I should have mentioned a couple of other things. I was asked by the Opposition Front Bench team what the form of address is. I am Sir Roger—for reasons I do not entirely understand—and George Howarth is Mr Howarth at the moment, although I am sure that will change in due course. In the English Parliament, in Committee as on the Floor of House, we refer to Members by constituency or by “my hon. Friend” or “the hon. Lady” or “the hon. Gentleman”, not by “you” or whatever. “You” is the Chair, and the Chair is non-partisan and does not take part in the proceedings. So if you say, “You have said that,” I shall leap to my feet and say, “No, I haven’t,” even though we all know what was meant. We will try not to be too heavy on that at the start, however.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That, subject to the discretion of the Chair, any written evidence received by the Committee shall be reported to the House for publication.—(Mr Gauke.)

Clause 1

Income tax lock

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

I assume that the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath wishes to speak to his new clauses, but I may be incorrect. Before he does so, I ask hon. Members look at the amendment paper. I will reiterate what I said earlier for understanding. At the end of this morning’s amendment paper are new clauses 1, 2, 3 and 4. Only new clauses 1 and 3 have been selected for debate with clause 2, because they relate to VAT. New clause 2 does not relate to VAT, so although it appears on the amendment paper ahead of new clause 3, we are not debating it now. The new clauses will not be moved now. They can be spoken to by any hon. Member who wishes to address the subjects. Clearly, the hon. Gentleman in whose name the new clause was tabled will wish to speak to it. Others may also wish to speak to it; that is entirely in order. The new clauses will not be moved now. They will be moved, as with all other new clauses, right at the end of the Bill, which may be, I suspect, several weeks hence. There is an arcane form of words in which new clauses, as distinct from amendments, are moved. That is a pleasure in store for us, but we will deal with that when we come to it.

[Roger Mullin]

Thank you, Sir Roger. You have no idea how grateful I am to have you in the Chair guiding me through this process. I rise to speak to—not move— new clause 1, and later my colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central, will speak to new clause 3.

New clause 1 addresses a long-running issue that has affected the provision of police and fire and rescue services in Scotland. The Scottish Police Authority is the only police authority in the United Kingdom that does not have relief from VAT, which costs it about £23 million per year. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is similarly disadvantaged and is liable for an annual cost of about £9 million to £10 million. The reason sometimes given is that—hon. Members may not be aware of this—a few years ago the Scottish Government, after taking advice, decided to go down the road of having a single national police force. It was undertaken for a number of reasons, and I would like to point out two that might be relevant and of interest to Government Members in particular.

First, we previously had eight forces. As hon. Members may recall, some years ago there was a terrorist incident at Glasgow airport. We are just as concerned about the impact of terrorism on our society in Scotland as other Members will be, quite rightly, in their constituencies. One thing the new police force has been able to do is join up measures so that we can address the terrorist threat more effectively than before. Similarly, it used to be that when the Scottish forces had issues, say of serious crime and relating to—[Interruption.]

[Simon Hoare]

The hon. Gentleman might wish to have cognisance of the note that his colleague passed to him.

[Roger Mullin]

That is one of the most helpful interventions of my entire parliamentary career. I hope I do not require any similar interventions in the future—[Laughter.] I am so glad that I can bring some levity—it was not deliberate. Where was I?

[Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Roger Mullin]

On that point, yes.

[Jake Berry]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it often pays to advertise?

[Roger Mullin]

Dare I agree? Back to a slightly less humorous point. When we had eight police forces in Scotland, some of them were very small, and at times that created difficulty in co-ordination on cross-border issues with forces south of the border. One benefit is that we now get much greater co-ordination of police forces across the United Kingdom. Terrorism and cross-border co-ordination are two serious areas where the police service is delivering benefits not for merely the people in Scotland, but for the people of the whole United Kingdom.

It seems strange, therefore, that the Government of the United Kingdom has continued to deny every overture made by the Scottish Government for VAT relief. My colleagues in Edinburgh inform me that no fewer than five letters from Scottish Ministers have been sent to the UK Government: two from the Justice Secretary, two from the Deputy First Minister and one from the Minister for Community Safety. There has also been: a letter from the cross-party Convenor of the Scottish Parliament’s Finance Committee to HM Treasury; eight letters from Scottish Government officials; and six meetings or conference calls in which the Scottish Government have sought to have our police and fire and rescue services treated in the same manner as all other forces in the United Kingdom.

We are not asking for something completely unusual or out of order. Since the amalgamations took place, the new transport agency, Highways England, has been granted VAT exemptions, so there is precedent. It is matter of common justice that this should be looked at. In new clause 1, we ask the Government to produce a report and lay it before the House to examine in greater detail some of the problems that arise because the police and fire and rescue services cannot reclaim VAT.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I welcome the support of the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South for new clause 3, and I saw the Economic Secretary to the Treasury nodding as well. I therefore hope to get some support on this issue.

My concern with the VAT lock as presented is that it is very restrictive. Our new clause would leave a window open to resolve the injustice of VAT being levied on sanitary products. This injustice has long needed to be corrected and, as a female MP, I feel obligated to use this opportunity to raise the issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) informed me that she campaigned on this issue in the 1980s, so it is a long-running one. The fact that it has not yet been resolved is quite disappointing and perhaps reflects a lack of willpower from the men who hold the purse strings in many of these cases. This is perhaps the chance for the Minister to make a difference. In the past, we have seen Jaffa Cakes and Tunnock’s teacakes go to the courts to fight for their zero ratings, and I seek the support of all Committee members to allow leeway for further consideration of this issue.

There seem to be a lot of inconsistencies in the application of the rating. As no one can fully control the manner in which sanitary products are required, it is a bit odd and incongruous that we do not treat them as we do other exempted items, such as medical incontinence pads and babies’ nappies, which I understand are both zero-rated. There is a recognition that those products do not fall under the full rate. Sanitary products are taxed at the 5% rate, but they are not, as the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South said, optional or luxury items. I certainly know of no woman who would exclaim, “Wow! I had my period—what a luxury!” We need a recognition that these are essential items that are very much required in households across the country. Indeed, if we were to go without these products, we would see public indignation, as there was when Kiran Gandi ran the London marathon in April without any protection, as a means of protest about the issue.

Another concern for me is that sanitary protection for women who have just given birth is not exempted from VAT. It is charged at 5%, despite being an absolute essential for women who have just had a child and being used for up to six weeks afterwards. These are medical products, in my view, and should also be exempted. We cannot do without them, and it would be both unsanitary and dangerous for our own health and that of our families if we were to go without them. We need a recognition that women across the country use these products. There is no recognition that they are essential items, and a zero rating would go some way to addressing that.

It has been mentioned that this is a European Union issue. My understanding is that Ireland has an exemption for these products, which is something we should look at. It would be useful if the Government were to take a stance on this, push it and send a message out to the rest of the European Union and women right across it, who would see a benefit if this went to the EU for further discussion.

What we are proposing today leaves a window open. I appreciate that we cannot ask for a particular change to be made, but it would leave the window open for negotiation, for further study and for a report, in order, I hope, for the issue to finally be resolved after many decades of campaigning.