Oral Answers to Questions
Robert Neill Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Attorney General
If the hon. Gentleman gives me details of the case he has in mind, of course I will look into it. He will know that the SFO receives its funding in core budget and in blockbuster funding to deal with those extra-large cases that need additional funding. There has never been an occasion, and I hope there never will be, when the SFO has not been able to proceed for reasons of resources—that should remain the case.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
I was glad to hear the Attorney General confirm that the SFO will continue to operate independently. What specific measures have been put in place to ensure that the new tasking power given to the National Crime Agency in relation to economic crime does not compromise either operational independence or the independence of the decision making on whether or not to bring prosecutions?
The Attorney General
I can say three things to my hon. Friend on that. First, both the SFO and the NCA believe this power will hardly ever be used. Secondly, in order for it to be used both my consent and that of the Home Secretary are required. Thirdly, it seems to us that this is sensible co-ordination in the fight against economic crime, but it will not affect the opportunity that the SFO will continue to have to investigate and, of course, to prosecute its own cases. This affects only the opportunity to investigate; it does not affect making decisions on prosecution.
Oral Answers to Questions
Robert Neill Excerpts(6 years ago)
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Matt Hancock
Yes, I have looked at the bid closely; I think it is a good one. I agree with the hon. Gentleman very strongly. I grew up in Cheshire, but I had to drive through north Wales to get to school every day, so I know the area and the links incredibly well. That border is not an economic border at all. Wrexham and Chester, north Wales and Cheshire are all one area when it comes to the economy, and I look forward to working with him on the bid.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
Matt Hancock
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This issue of take-up—how many people take up the broadband that is available—is very important. As availability gets to more than 95%, we are increasingly looking at the levels of take-up that we need to get up to.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
Will the Attorney General bear in mind the widely held opinion that the important, delicate and often finely balanced judgments that the DPP must make require informed views that result from lengthy frontline experience of prosecuting serious cases day in, day out, at the highest level, and that that must be an important consideration when selecting the successor to the current DPP?
The Attorney General
My hon. Friend is right. He is aware of the statutory requirement that applicants have at least 10 years’ practising experience, but the matter that he raises will also be an important consideration.
Data Protection Bill [Lords]
Robert Neill ExcerptsWednesday 9th May 2018
(6 years ago)
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Matt Hancock
Sir Brian was very clear in his letter to me. He stated that he wanted the inquiry to continue on a different basis. I think, having considered his view and others, that the best approach is to ensure that we do the work necessary to improve the standards of the press, but we do it based on what is needed now to improve things in the future. I will come back to that.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
I am glad that my right hon. Friend acknowledges the diligence and hard work of Sir Brian Leveson in the inquiry. He highlighted the particular vice of corrupt police officers giving the names of persons—perhaps whose premises are being searched—to corrupt journalists who publish them before charge, and very often those people are never charged. No amount of redress can undo that damage. Will my right hon. Friend meet me and other concerned Members to consider revisions and what additional legal protection can be given to people post-charge to prevent this trade in muck and dirt, sometimes without anybody ever coming before a criminal court, which undermines the presumption in favour of innocence?
Matt Hancock
Yes, I will. My hon. Friend makes a very important point. We are discussing the rules around the disclosure of the names of people who are under investigation before arrest. This is a sensitive area, and we have got to get it right. I want to work with colleagues and others to explore the reporting restriction rules further, and I look forward to meeting him and any others who share those concerns.
Leveson Inquiry
Robert Neill Excerpts(6 years, 2 months ago)
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Matt Hancock
The libel laws are of course a critical guardian in this space, but the low-cost arbitration scheme brought in by IPSO is designed precisely to address that question, and making sure that that works is very important.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
I agree with the Minister about section 40 because I have seen the impact that that would have on local papers such as the New Shopper in my constituency. However, I do not agree with some of the personalised attacks upon him. May I bring him back to the second part of the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) about the amended terms of Leveson? Sir Brian Leveson is probably the most distinguished and experienced judge in criminal matters in this country. He identified in detail the issue of criminal collusion between corrupt police officers and corrupt journalists. Anyone who knows the criminal justice system knows that that has not gone away and continues. Absent of Leveson 2 on revised terms, what will the Government do to expose and deal with that?
Matt Hancock
Of course there have been changes to policing—not least the code of ethics, the national guidance for police officers and the changes in the Policing and Crime Act 2017. I apologise to my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) that I did not address the second part of his question. We are taking forward the need to look at and to ensure that this country has high-quality journalism, but we have to look at that in the full round. Yes, that includes the press, but it also includes online, where a huge amount of news is now consumed. I am happy to talk to my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) about what he thinks needs to be done, but I want to ensure that we address the problems that we still face.
Oral Answers to Questions
Robert Neill Excerpts(6 years, 4 months ago)
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The Attorney General
I understand what the right hon. Gentleman says. May I take this opportunity to pay tribute to him for his advocacy on behalf of the family? He will understand, however, that the decision was taken initially at the highest levels of the Crown Prosecution Service. Because of that, and because of the victims’ right to review process, it is right that external counsel is brought in to advise. That is taking the decision extremely seriously. That will mean, as he has already discovered, that the decision takes a little longer, but I think it is right that full attention is paid to that decision and he will hear about it in due course.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
The charging process requires full and wholly objective analysis of all material held. I am sure the Attorney General will agree that the same applies to disclosure if charges are brought. Recent high-profile cases, together with the joint inspection report of the criminal justice agencies, have highlighted what the Attorney has called appalling failures in disclosure by the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. The Criminal Law Solicitors Association, in a review of its members, found the same. Given its significance, will the Attorney General ensure that the review he is carrying out, as announced by the Prime Minister, looks not just at the working practices but at the professional culture and the independence and objectivity of the Crown Prosecution Service in these matters? I add in parenthesis that I note it was an independently instructed member of the Bar, Mr Jerry Hayes, who was responsible for highlighting the clear failure of the Crown Prosecution Service and the police in this case.
Oral Answers to Questions
Robert Neill Excerpts(6 years, 5 months ago)
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The Attorney General
Yes, I can give the hon. Gentleman that reassurance, and he is absolutely right that such offences are best dealt with transnationally, because they are committed transnationally. He will recognise that outside the European Union we have a number of different relationships with many other countries to enable us to do law enforcement more effectively and of course bring prosecutions more effectively too.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
The Justice Committee, in its report in the previous Parliament on the legal implications of Brexit, referred to a number of practical measures that need to be taken to maintain criminal justice co-operation. Can the Attorney General help us on what progress has been made on those, and in particular what steps are being taken to ensure that we have continuing data regulation alignment after we leave?
The Attorney General
Yes. My hon. Friend is right that data is crucial to this, and he will recognise that two things need to be done simultaneously. We need to aspire to the closest possible co-operation in law enforcement and security with our European friends after our departure from the EU. We also, of course, need to prepare for what I think is the unlikely possibility that we will not have an ongoing relationship, and there may be a need to fall back on other things. But as I say, I think that is an unlikely possibility, and I think it is very important that we have the closest possible co-operation, which of course is in the interests not just of the UK but of the EU.
Leaving the EU: Data Protection
Robert Neill Excerpts(6 years, 7 months ago)
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Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
I will not stray on to the issue of authors, living or dead, but I do want to address three issues in this important debate.
The first picks up from where the shadow Minister left off. As a London MP, one cannot but be aware of the significance of tech companies and the digital industry to our economy. That is part of what makes London the world’s financial capital, and getting our position right on these issues and maintaining it is absolutely critical to our arrangements going forward.
As hon. Members know, I come at this debate as someone who rather wishes we were not in this situation, but given that we are, getting the detail right is absolutely vital. I understand and support the thrust behind the Bill and what the Minister very fairly said in his opening speech, but the detail is terribly important.
Only this week, I was at a meeting of the all-party parliamentary group on wholesale financial markets and services, where a number of representatives of the financial services sector, including Citi UK and UK Finance, raised the real issue that while we talk a great deal about the need to preserve regulatory equivalence and other means of achieving access to the single market once we have left it, data sharing is, to some degree, the elephant in the room and is often not spoken about. The director of one of London’s leading accountancy and consultancy firms described it to me as a huge issue that needs to be tackled.
The Minister is right to recognise the issue, and the Bill, of itself, is right and proper, but getting the detail right will go well beyond that. When he replies, I hope he will be able to assure us that his Department and the other relevant Departments are keeping in close contact with our financial sector. There are people with massive expertise out there, and they are willing to help the Government on this, and it is critical that we get it right for the future health of the UK.
None of us wants to see London’s position as the world’s financial capital diminished, and that is not in the EU’s interests either, because, in many respects, London, as a financial and digital capital, has been a gateway into European markets for many third-country investors. We want that to remain the case, so getting these issues right is terribly important.
My second point was highlighted by the right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake). I agree with him about Gibraltar, and I declare an interest as the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Gibraltar. I recently returned from Gibraltar’s national day celebrations, and you are fondly remembered there as an active former member of the group and as a good friend to Gibraltar, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Cross party, members of the all-party group were struck by the importance of this issue to Gibraltar. Gibraltar has revived its economy in recent years, moving away from what was essentially a garrison-type economy to an economy that is strongly based on financial services and online digital operations of a number of kinds—they are now the most important part of the economy. As the Minister says, Gibraltar is a successful part of the British family—a self-governing British overseas territory that is entirely financially self-supporting. It is to Gibraltar’s credit that it has been at pains throughout this period closely to mirror United Kingdom and European Union regulatory arrangements, and it ticks all the boxes in regulatory terms.
Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)
I think I am right in saying that the UK has the largest digital economy in the G20. If that is the case—it is obviously imperative that we are able to continue that in the years ahead—the impact of these issues will be just as great on Gibraltar, if not larger.
Robert Neill
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The two key messages that one gets on this topic from Gibraltarians across the political spectrum and from all parts of Gibraltarian society are, first, that they do not want to be left behind in any arrangements that the UK makes with the EU27—they do not want to be collateral damage in any sense—and they want to maintain the arrangements and access that we have. Secondly, they want above all to maintain the closest possible friction-free trading arrangements with the UK, where a great deal of their service business is already conducted. Getting that right is terribly important for Gibraltar. It is a small economy with little other resilience, and it really needs our support in getting the data issues right to protect what is a very successful story for the British family.
My third point relates to legal matters. I take the liberty of referring to the Justice Committee’s ninth report from the 2016-17 Session of the last Parliament. As hon. Members will know, I have the honour to chair that Committee, and we issued a report on the implications of Brexit for the justice system. I hope we will soon have a response from the Government to that report; it is one of those that is in Ministers’ in-tray—or, I hope, out-tray—at the Ministry of Justice. Perhaps a gentle nudge might be delivered by those on the Treasury Bench to their right hon. Friends there.
The report is constructive and stresses the importance of information-sharing arrangements for the legal system and the justice system. Part of that relates to the UK’s legal services, and that links in to what I said earlier about the financial services sector in London. The legal service sector underpins a great deal of that financial services work, so getting this issue right is critical for UK firms contracting with parties in the EU or with third parties. At the moment, a great deal of work is written in English law, and that is a great advantage to us, so getting the data sharing right around all those matters is terribly important to the firms involved.
However, the other issue in our report, which is perhaps even more strikingly important, relates to information sharing on policing and critical justice co-operation. In many respects, we have led the field in this regard, and it will certainly not be the intention of the Government or of the Prime Minister, who both as Prime Minister and as Home Secretary has stressed the importance of this issue, to lose any of that information sharing. However, again, the devil is always in the detail in these matters, and perhaps I can highlight what the Committee found.
We took a considerable amount of evidence, and it is clear that the EU offers a number of information-sharing tools. I particularly want to highlight the importance of the European criminal records information system. We are in that at the moment, and it was clear from the professionals in the field who gave evidence to us that we must do all we can to maintain access to that system. It provides access to accurate records of EU citizens’ offending histories.
It is perhaps worth putting on the record a quote from the National Crime Agency. Its evidence was:
“Through ECRIS, the UK is able to exchange tens of thousands of pieces of information about criminal convictions each year that help police and other law enforcement agencies to investigate crime, protect the public and manage violent and sexual offenders.”
Tom Brake
Is the hon. Gentleman able to clarify for me whether that is one of the data exchanges that are subject to the European Court of Justice rulings to ensure safeguards for those exchanges of data? If I am correct, how does he see that relationship continuing with the UK post Brexit?
Robert Neill
My understanding is that it is likely to be subject to the ECJ, and we concluded that while we might seek to remove the direct jurisdiction of the ECJ in some matters, the idea that we will not have an ongoing relationship with the ECJ on such matters is unrealistic. That will be important.
We want to stay in ECRIS, but we noted that there are no previous examples of a non-EU member having access to it. We will have to seek a bespoke arrangement to achieve that, and I hope that Ministers regard that as a high priority.
Vicky Ford
On the subject of valuable data exchanges, does my hon. Friend agree that we also need to continue to exchange passenger name records, because that is vital for our safety? The exchange of passenger name records was, of course, led through the European Parliament by a British MEP, championed by the Prime Minister and helps to keep us safe when flying.
Robert Neill
My hon. Friend is right and I pay tribute to the work that she did on this and several other issues for the United Kingdom during her time as a Member of the European Parliament.
The evidence given to the Justice Committee was clear that these are interlocking parts of a criminal justice co-operation system and we cannot cherry-pick some bits and not others. It is important that we find ways of maintaining equivalent means of access across the board on these criminal justice co-operation measures. I have mentioned ECRIS and I hope that the Minister will reassure us that finding a way to stay in it is a high priority for the Government.
We should also wish to remain in the second-generation Schengen information system as it gives the UK real-time access to all European arrest warrants. The European arrest warrant is a valuable tool and it is a great help to British law enforcement agencies. I say that as someone who worked as a barrister in criminal law for 25 years before I came to the House. That was at a time when we did not have that means of getting back from abroad villains who had committed crimes in this country. It is a great advantage that we do now have that ability, and since certain amendments were made to the way in which it operates, there are many more safeguards for UK citizens when an EAW is issued than was previously the case. It is a tool that has been refined and improved, and it would be a great advantage for us to stay in it.
SIS II—I apologise for all the acronyms—is also important because it contains, for example, alerts on missing persons. In all, it gives us access to 66 million pieces of data, which helps our justice system, and it is important that we continue to have access to it. The National Crime Agency said:
“Loss of access to SIS II would seriously inhibit the UK’s ability to identify and arrest people who pose a threat to public safety and security and make sure that they are brought to justice.”
I hope that the Minister will confirm that that, too, is a high priority for the Government.
Darren Jones
I stress my agreement with the hon. Gentleman’s remarks about these sharing systems. An example given to me by the Avon and Somerset constabulary involved the awful case of a member of the public viewing child pornography live in this country. Through data-sharing with the continent, the police services in Spain were able to raid the person delivering the data and bring to an end the crimes being committed here and in Europe. Such data sharing must continue, to protect our constituents and our friends on the continent.
Robert Neill
The hon. Gentleman is right, and that was the tenor of the evidence that we heard from all the law enforcement agencies. The benefits of data have also meant that crime has been internationalised in a raft of ways, including of course classic cyber-crime, but also in international fraud, organised crime and, sadly, sexual offences through the internet. Having a full range of measures to deal with those issues is critical.
Robert Neill
The clear evidence given to us was that the only viable contingency plan would be a significant transitional period. It would not be possible to replicate those systems in the event of a supposed clean-break arrangement, and it would be necessary to have transitional measures. The evidence did suggest that those could vary from sector to sector, in terms of the length of time required and the amount of detailed work to be done, but it would be a serious setback for us to leave the European Union and the current data-sharing arrangements without something being put in place to bridge us over the leaving period for implementation or a clear end state for our ongoing relationship in the areas of data sharing and criminal justice co-operation. It is in everybody’s interests that we achieve that and it is an important issue to bear in mind.
We concluded that data sharing is not an area in which we can take a risk. Indeed, we concluded that these matters are so important that one would ideally wish to see them decoupled from the rest of the Brexit negotiations. Divorce bills or otherwise, public safety and security work for our interests and for every one of the citizens of the EU27, too. The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point and I agree with him.
I have talked about two key systems and I want to highlight their interrelated and technical nature because it is important to put that on the record. As well as those two systems, we also have access to Prüm, a regime for exchanging biometric information and vehicle registration data. It reduces the time taken to find matches from tens of days to 15 minutes when fully in place. We have recently gone into Prüm, and the chairman of the Criminal Bar Association, Francis FitzGibbon QC made the point to us that—and I shall quote his stark words in full to highlight their significance—
“if someone lets off a bomb in Berlin and makes his way to London, the police will be able to get hold of the fingerprints of the chap they arrest for double parking, or whatever it is, instantaneously.”
That gives us the swift ability to track down serious threats to our safety across the continent. We have not yet implemented Prüm, but we have signed up to do so and I hope that we will make it clear that we will implement it while we remain in the EU and we will seek to continue in it once we leave.
Our concern was that both Norway and Iceland—which are not members of the EU, although they are Council of Europe countries and have association arrangements with Interpol and others—have waited some years to have access to Prüm. We have started from a closer position and it would be a tragedy if we went back to the same place in the queue as them, giving away something that we are already moving into. I hope that the Minister will reassure us that the Government will attend closely to those specific points during the negotiations.
Our conclusion was that all these matters, extradition arrangements, the EAW, the data sharing that underpins prisoner exchange arrangements, together with our arrangements on judicial co-operation—on which British judges work closely with their counterparts—and of course our membership of Europol are all part of a system that comes together to protect us in criminal justice and security matters. They were described by our witness Professor Wilson as part of a system that
“you cannot disaggregate because, in my view, if you take out elements of the system, you have a less effective system for protecting British citizens on the streets.”
That was also the clear evidence from the Northumbria Centre for Evidence and Criminal Justice Studies. The evidence was overwhelming. Sometimes, as lawyers, we get cases in which the evidence all points one way, and that was very much our conclusion from the evidence to the Committee’s inquiry. These are all important matters. Of course, they are but one part of the data protection and sharing regime, but they are critical.
We received the clear message from practitioners that whatever we do and however we get to these arrangements —I hope that the Bill, when it is brought to the House, will help us to achieve this—the end state has to include a means of making sure that our data sharing and data protection regime are sufficiently close to those of the EU27. We shall, therefore, have to have a means of tracking changes and replicating them when it is likely to be to our mutual advantage to do so. Otherwise, with the very best will in the world, a law enforcement agency or police officer in the EU27 might not be able to share potentially critical information with his or her UK counterparts because he or she might find themselves in breach of the data regulations in his or her own EU27 country. That cannot be in anyone’s interest. I hope that the Minister will reassure us that creating such a system will be the centrepiece of our objectives on data sharing in relation to criminal justice and co-operation matters.
Oral Answers to Questions
Robert Neill Excerpts(6 years, 7 months ago)
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The Attorney General
The hon. Lady is right that blockbuster funding forms a significant component of the SFO’s funding. I think that is likely to remain the case because, as she will appreciate, it is difficult for the SFO to predict exactly the number or severity of the cases it will deal with in any given year. However, there is an argument for relooking at how core funding is developed for the SFO, particularly so that it can attract and retain the best quality staff.
Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)
The SFO’s reputation has been greatly enhanced under its current director David Green, who is shortly to retire. It is critical that a director of equal quality is appointed to succeed him, so can we put to rest once and for all the suggestion that the independent SFO is likely to be merged into the National Crime Agency? That would be a grossly retrograde step for the efficiency and reputation of our fight against economic crime.
The Attorney General
On the importance of good leadership, I belatedly congratulate my hon. Friend on retaining the Chair of the Select Committee on Justice. My hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor General and I look forward to appearing before his Committee again.
On the future of the Serious Fraud Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) is right to recognise the work that David Green and, of course, many others within the organisation have done to improve performance, and I would expect that to continue. I would also expect that, whatever we do, we will hold fast to the crucial requirements that any organisation combating this kind of crime must be effective and independent. Whatever changes are made, my hon. Friend has my assurance that that is what I will require as an end result.