Badger Culling

Debate between Robert Goodwill and Jo Churchill

Monday 21st March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Jo Churchill]

The hon. Gentleman is right. The Government have invested over £40 million in vaccines and tests. As set out in the Godfray review—again, this is in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for North Herefordshire—our aim is to have a deployable cattle vaccine by 2025. Field trials began last year. My right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Sir Robert Goodwill) mentioned that the challenge is having the sensitivity to make sure that we deal with the matter properly.

[Sir Robert Goodwill]

May I share my disappointment that the oral vaccine that DEFRA was keen to roll out proved too unpalatable were it to be made abrasive enough for it to work on the badger, and now we are stuck with having to trap and vaccinate badgers? Unfortunately, some badgers are too clever to get caught. It tends to be the same badgers getting in the traps all the time because they know there is food there.

[Jo Churchill]

Indeed. As every Member said, we need to approach this issue in the most humane way possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Churchill]

I was, in fact, due to go tomorrow, but I am now unable to. I dare say those conversations will happen in short order. I know that my Northern Ireland equivalent is looking at this issue at the moment, and it is hoped that we can learn from one another. We can certainly get those conversations where we can all be enabled to make the right decisions as swiftly as possible.

The hon. Member for Weaver Vale pointed out that culling causes badgers to move, and perturbation, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Herefordshire said. Taking that into account is important. That is why we need a gradual, monitored, evidence-based approach, so we do not risk perturbation and the disease getting a hold. We need the areas that can cull to do so while we build the vaccination capability and a vaccinated population.

The strategy is rooted in routine and targeted testing of herds, movement restrictions on infected herds, rapid detection and removal of cattle testing positive. My hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Chris Loder) said that it is particularly stressful when a calf is involved. We do have an isolation policy so that a positive cow is pulled out in order that the calf can be born.

Measures such as the statutory testing of cattle, movement between farms and surveillance at the slaughterhouse also apply. Over the last 12 months, we have compulsorily slaughtered more than 27,000 individual head of cattle in England to control the disease. Many of us represent rural constituencies, and we have heard today from virtually every Member about the misery that both sides of this bring to people. The cost to Government of dealing with the disease is about £100 million a year; it is a huge burden for the taxpayer.

One of our top priorities, as I have said, is to develop the vaccine for cattle so that it does not interfere with the TB testing regime. We hope to get that introduced within the next five years. It is expected to be a game changer in providing a strong additional tool to help to eradicate the disease. It is important that we look at the trials that are ongoing at the moment and we get the evidence base. There is not a single answer to the scourge of bovine TB, but by deploying a whole range of policy interventions, we can turn the tide on this insidious disease and, we hope, achieve the long-term objective, which I think everybody shares, of ensuring that we make England officially TB free by 2038—sooner if we can make it, but definitely not much later.

[Sir Robert Goodwill]

May I remind the Minister that in North Yorkshire we have very healthy badgers and very healthy cattle? Contrary to what many people think, the badger is not an endangered species; indeed, I think that in our part of North Yorkshire there are probably four or five times as many badgers as there have ever been before. It is the hedgehogs, bumblebees and ground-nesting birds that are feeling the pressure, from the high numbers of badgers, and that is having an effect on the ecosystem as well.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020

Debate between Robert Goodwill and Jo Churchill

Thursday 16th July 2020 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Jo Churchill)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations (S.I., 2020, No. 684).

What a privilege it is to serve on the Committee for your very first time in the Chair, Mrs Murray. I hope it will be an enjoyable sitting for us all. The regulations, which were made on 3 July by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matt Hancock), came into force on 4 July. We had previously amended the original regulations, but the amendments made at this stage resulted in a significant number of changes.

It is for that reason that the original regulations were revoked and replaced with a set of new regulations, to make the legislation clearer and easier for the public to understand. The SI has not been formally cleared by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. Further changes were made following the announcement made on 9 July by the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden), and a set of amendments to the regulations that were made on 10 July came into force on 11 July and 13 July. Those changes will be debated on 20 July.

I am aware that there are concerns in Parliament about allowing for the timely scrutiny of regulations that have been laid and made in response to the public health emergency caused by coronavirus, particularly relating to the timing of debates. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care will bring these matters to the fore today. We have listened to those concerns and have endeavoured to hold this debate as soon as possible after the regulations were laid.

I acknowledge the situation in Leicester and appreciate how hard it must be for the people who live there. Although the rate of infection is declining nationally, we have been clear that we must take swift action to keep people safe when local outbreaks are identified. It is now vital that everyone in the protected area in and around Leicester stays at home and avoids non-essential travel. Anyone with symptoms needs to come forward for a test and share their contacts with NHS test and trace if they test positive.

We will continue to monitor rates of infection across the country, to work with local authorities, and to take action locally where necessary. In the event that the local response is not sufficient to deal with an outbreak, including to prevent the virus from returning to general circulation, the Government will act rapidly. We are in the process of drafting new regulations to enable action to be taken, and we will be ready to reintroduce national measures if necessary to control the spread of the virus.

We are now in phase 3 of our recovery strategy, as the Prime Minister set out in the Government’s roadmap on 11 May. Through continuous review of the measures, we have gradually and cautiously replaced existing social restrictions with targeted measures to ensure that any remaining restrictions are proportionate and necessary. In his statement to the House on 23 June, the Prime Minister announced the changes that we are debating, which came into force on 4 July.

The regulations enabled the reopening of many businesses across different sectors of the economy—a welcome change for many and a significant moment in our journey to restart the economy. Most of the restrictions on social gatherings are no longer set out in legislation, but the Government continue to issue guidance to support the public in meeting friends and family in a safe and appropriate way. We understand how vital it is for people to maintain contact with friends and acknowledge the positive impact that has on wellbeing and mental health. As we have done throughout the pandemic, we are trusting the British public to remain alert and stick to the published guidance.

I will now outline the changes made on 3 July, which came into effect on 4 July. These include: easing the restrictions on gatherings and overnight stays by removing most of the relevant rules from legislation and issuing guidance to support the public to meet their friends and family safely; allowing more sectors to reopen, including hospitality, leisure, tourism, recreation and sport; allowing further public and community services to reopen; and continuing to require some businesses considered too high risk to remain closed. The regulations also provide new powers to close public open places where it is considered necessary to do so, to prevent, protect against, control or provide a public health response to the incidence or spread of coronavirus.

[Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con)]

Last week I received a letter from someone who delivers complementary therapies. What consideration has the Minister given to allowing such treatments to recommence, as many patients seem to find them useful?

[Jo Churchill]

The opening of massage parlours, spas and so on was laid out in subsequent regulations, and they have been allowed since 13 July. Perhaps I can have a conversation with my right hon. Friend on the specifics of the type of treatment to give him a fuller answer on whether they are allowed. It is about the context. As we have seen with beauty parlours, which are reopening, there are still restrictions on facial treatments that require proximity.

[Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab)]

I think many of us have received such representations. Does the exchange we have just heard not illustrate that one of the problems with the regulations and the law is that their sheer complexity and swiftly changing nature make it difficult for even the most assiduous of observers to keep up to date with where we are? In that regard, the guidance to which the Minister has just referred is incredibly important. How will she ensure that people can understand the fast-moving current state of the regulations and the law?

[Mr Goodwill]

rose—

[Jo Churchill]

I thank the hon. Lady. If she will excuse me, I will take another intervention from my right hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby and then answer both.

[Mr Goodwill]

I support what the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood said. My constituent was a sports physiotherapist, but he was also representing people who do acupuncture, yoga or homeopathy, which are still not permitted.

[Jo Churchill]

What both my right hon. Friend and the hon. Lady are outlining is that the approach has had to be measured and consistent with Public Health England advice for specific areas. That guidance is available on gov.uk. My right hon. Friend has articulated different treatments, some of which need a degree of invasiveness. Guidance on that is incremental, and the Government are endeavouring to give people accurate information in a timely fashion.

However, I would readily say that there are times when there is perhaps a degree of confusion. At that point, if one refers to PHE guidance and gov.uk, one will find that it articulates why PHE is making changes incrementally. I am sure that no one on the Committee would have wanted us to open up at a more rapid rate and seen a rise in the R number. All of this is about us working permanently to keep control of the R number while trying to allow the economy to reopen.

On 6 July, the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport announced that further amendments would be made to continue to ease existing restrictions and reopen many businesses and facilities. The changes being made, along with the updated guidance, have allowed team sports, rehearsals and outdoor performances to resume, with close contact services—including nail bars, salons, tanning booths, spas, massage parlours, body and skin-piercing services—and outdoor swimming pools and waterparks to reopen from 13 July. Those amendments will be debated on 20 July in the House. Our assessment that we are meeting the five tests, which we set out as considerations for change, mean that more restrictions will be lifted.

Covid-19 is the biggest challenge the UK has faced in decades.It threatens to take both our way of life and our loved ones from us. That is why the Government put in place strict social distancing measures, to slow the spread of the virus so that the NHS would not be overwhelmed. Thanks to the hard work and sacrifice of the public, and despite the extremely tragic loss of life, the UK has slowed the spread of the virus. We have been working with and consulting widely with businesses and organisations throughout the pandemic and continue to receive expert scientific advice from SAGE—the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies—the chief medical officer and the chief scientific adviser, as we continue to work on easing the restrictions as soon as it is safe to do so.

I have already noted that further amendments were made to the regulations on 10 July, which will be debated in due course. I am grateful to all parliamentarians for their continued engagement in the process and for their valuable scrutiny.