Northern Ireland Protocol

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we do want to take that approach. The reality is that in practice the outworkings of the protocol are having a detrimental effect. One of the key things in the opening part of the protocol itself is the determination that we would not disrupt the everyday lives of people in their communities. Regardless of people’s constitutional view of Northern Ireland, the protocol is having an impact, which is why the First Minister has also pointed to issues in the protocol that she wants to see resolved. Obviously, people across the communities are having issues as well. We need to get this resolved for all the people of Northern Ireland, and my hon. Friend is absolutely right that we need to do so in a realistic why, recognising the challenges on the ground, and to deal with it as partners with the EU in a way that can deliver for the people of Northern Ireland, with the understanding that, of course, Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) [V]]

I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement.

Let us not lose sight of the fact that a protocol setting the terms of trade has only been made necessary because of an EU withdrawal agreement that the Prime Minister—irrespective of its entirely foreseeable impact on Northern Ireland—defined the parameters of himself and then signed up to freely. Everybody knows that article 16 exists, but the continued threats from the UK Government to deploy it have worn so thin as to be utterly transparent in every sense, and can be doing little to help increase the trust and confidence necessary for the Government to achieve their stated objectives.

Let us also be clear that if we move from the current agreement, there will have to be another put in place that is likely to differ in substance, to use a phrase, only in limited and specific ways from that which it will be replacing. If the UK Government wish to return to the freest possible conditions for the movement of goods between GB and Northern Ireland, consistent with their international obligations, they could sign up right now to a dynamic deal on food and animal welfare standards.

A pragmatic renegotiation of the protocol in the light of experience, and in the light of everything that has come from the nature of Brexit, would clearly be desirable in order to remove not just the barriers that exist but also the symbolism that these trade frictions are causing that are being felt so keenly in Northern Ireland at the present moment. In that regard, will the Secretary of State ensure that the Government, in contrast to their approach to Brexit to date, set the tone of all their discussions with the EU in good faith around the negotiating table, rather than through the pages of The Telegraph or the tabloids, and at all times in a manner that builds, rather than undermines, the trust necessary to be able to secure a better deal for the people of Northern Ireland?

[Brandon Lewis]

As I outlined in my statement, we are actually not using article 16. That is something that the EU attempted to do—I think, mistakenly—earlier this year, which has caused an issue and a sense within the Unionist community that is still an issue today. The hon. Gentleman should sometimes stand up a bit more for the people of Northern Ireland and across the UK as a spokesperson on this issue, rather than just for the EU.

The hon. Gentleman mentions talking to the media. When we are dealing with the EU, it is a bit odd for us to be told by a journalist about a plan for medicines or for chilled meats, when it could be days or weeks later that we formally hear from the EU. We do want to work with the EU, which is why we are proposing, as we have done today in our Command Paper, a way to move forward and work together to resolve the core problems, rather than continually to deal individually with the symptoms that continue to build issues of trust and frustration. Ultimately, that is the best way to get a result for the people of Northern Ireland and to have that strong, positive relationship between the UK and the EU.

Legacy of Northern Ireland’s Past

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Wednesday 14th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

Yes. My right hon. Friend, who I know has had a great interest in Northern Ireland for many years, is absolutely right. It cannot be right that, 23 years on from the Belfast/Good Friday agreement, still only some 7% of children in Northern Ireland are able to enjoy integrated education. If we want to see society move forward, we need to be clear and honest with ourselves that there is much more work to do on that. She is absolutely right that we need to end the intergenerational trauma that we are seeing and find a way to help Northern Ireland move forward so that the next generation and today’s younger generation can look forward, while always understanding where we have come from and what has happened.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

May I associate myself with your remarks before the statement, Mr Speaker, about the unfortunate way in which this information has entered the public domain? I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement, but we should not be reading these things on the BBC and RTÉ websites before we can discuss them in the House.

I acknowledge the untidy and imperfect nature of some of the compromises that have had to be made over the decades, first to achieve peace in Northern Ireland and then to maintain it. However, whatever merits in principle there might be in proposals surrounding aspects of truth, reconciliation and ensuring that the hidden truths of the troubles can at last be told while it is still possible, there remain huge concerns about the apparent lack of formal consultation and engagement on them.

Does the Secretary of State understand the huge concern, unease and upset that these proposals for a statute of limitations will cause, not just across Northern Ireland, but right across these islands? Will he acknowledge that unease and commit to engaging with victims’ groups and political leaders to discuss the way forward? Will he also think again about that statute of limitations and find a way to ensure, whatever final proposals he brings forward to the House, that where independent prosecutors consider that there is a sufficiency of evidence and a likelihood of successful conviction and, importantly, where they independently judge that it is in the public interest to bring forward a prosecution, they will still be able to do so?

[Brandon Lewis]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman about making sure that we are able to get to the truth and get to information. Nobody in this House ever wants to see again a situation like the Ballymurphy case, where the families have had to wait 50 years to get to the truth. We have to find a better way forward. The current system is failing everybody, so to do nothing simply is not an option that will deliver for people in Northern Ireland. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right.

We do want to engage. We have been engaging, and not just over the past 18 months. Even last week, my officials and I engaged with victims’ groups on these very issues. In the weeks ahead, with the Command Paper for people to read through and engage with, that engagement will continue, including with the political parties and our partners in the Irish Government.

Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Richard Thomson Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

Let me begin by offering my congratulations and those of my party to the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) on his elevation to be leader of the Democratic Unionist party.

This is a very important Bill in the sense that it is required to deliver on aspects of the New Decade, New Approach commitments. There are parts of that agreement that can and, I would argue, should be delivered by the Northern Ireland Executive and the Assembly themselves. I am sure that other speakers will begin to go over that ground in more detail, but I do not intend to do so myself. I will seek to confine my remarks to the measures in the Bill that can only be implemented by this place.

Before I do, I would like to offer a perspective from Scotland. There has been much comment about devolution. The Chair of the Select Committee said that devolution is neither a pick and mix nor a picnic. The Prime Minister, who clearly regards himself as a success, has notoriously described devolution as a failure. I think that most people in Scotland, and indeed further afield, would feel that the Prime Minister has got these things the wrong way round altogether.

Nevertheless, as with all Governments, there have been times when devolved Administrations, including the Governments in Scotland, of whatever political stripe, have acquitted themselves well and times when they have not—times when people have been left wondering why some things were not being done or, in some cases, why they were being done at all. There have been occasions when Parliaments have failed to pass budgets or when Governments have unexpectedly found themselves in a minority on an issue, sometimes within the Parliament and sometimes outside it. Occasionally, in the early days of devolution, there were also crises on education policy, aspects of social policy and even matters of personality and who held office, which left the institution somewhat battered and exposed in the harsh glare of the media and, at times, in its public standing. While I do not pretend that there is any scale of comparability, I would hope, viewing the situation from Scotland, that we can look at the progress that is being made in Northern Ireland with some kind of insight into the politics that goes on.

Over that time, there were strong opinions, deeply felt and sometimes trenchantly expressed, within, between and beyond political parties, some of which, as I say, led people to question the value of the institutions themselves. However, across the piece, politicians did what they had to do, which was not to ignore differences or try to come together on a false consensus, but instead to talk, to listen, to understand, to take responsibility and ultimately to move forward and start finding the much-vaunted Scottish solutions to Scottish problems instead of always looking to this place to have them sorted out for us by Governments who, very often, we did not elect. It is important that politics continues, and sometimes in order for politics to continue, all that is required is to give politicians the political space they need to be able to have the discussions they need to have with colleagues, to negotiate inside and outside the parties and between the parties, and sometimes even to reflect more broadly on whether public opinion on some issues is really where it has always been assumed to be. Who takes the decisions, and where and why, is obviously hugely important, but it is still important that the decisions that need to be taken are taken.

It is telling that in the opening of the “New Decade, New Approach” document, so much space was taken up with bread-and-butter issues such as resolving the long-standing issues around the delivery of healthcare and healthcare entitlements, around reforms to the education system and around the need to press ahead with capital expenditure and infrastructure, all of which had backed up during the absence of self-government. So, while I hope I do not underestimate for a single moment the sensitivities involved in a climate of power sharing, or the importance of being in a position to match words with deeds, I believe that the Bill will enhance the transparency and accountability of the institutions and that it is significant for what it sets out to do.

Politics may abhor a vacuum, but there is no question but that trying to bring matters to a head too quickly in the face of short and sometimes artificial and meaningless deadlines can lead to problems all of their own. For that reason, I believe that allowing an extended period, as the Bill seeks to do, for the appointment of a First Minister and Deputy First Minister, whether in the event of their ceasing to hold office or in the aftermath of an election, is an important step. Similarly, allowing Ministers to remain in office after an election to allow for some limited but necessary political direction to be provided over that period is an important mechanism for ensuring continued normalcy, not only to ensure the continuity of government but to assist the political process in the formation of new Governments. Similarly, while the petition of concern process has been an important consociational mechanism, the time is surely right to begin to narrow the scope of its potential usage while broadening the support required in order for it to be brought to bear. Also, I believe that an updating of the code of conduct for Ministers to enshrine the Nolan principles will be opportune.

As I have said, this is an important Bill. The people of Northern Ireland deserve stability and, with it, the ability to have decisions taken on their behalf by the Assembly that they elect and by the Executive who are there to govern on their behalf, and so long as these proposals enjoy the broad support of the people of Northern Ireland and the parties of Northern Ireland, they will have our support too.

Ballymurphy Inquest Findings

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Thursday 13th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee makes a really important point. He is absolutely right. In looking at how we move forward, we have to work, and I am determined that we will work, to do everything we can with our partners not just in Irish Government but across the parties, victims’ groups and civic society in Northern Ireland to ensure reconciliation and for an opportunity to recognise the accountability of the fact that Northern Ireland has suffered for far too long from the traumas of the past. Working together, I am sure that we can find a way to help Northern Ireland move forward and ensure that Northern Ireland can deliver on the phenomenal opportunities, expertise and excitement that is there to deliver for people and have that shared prosperous and stable society.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. The pain that the loved ones of the victims of the Ballymurphy killings have gone through over the past half century is unimaginable. I pay tribute to their courage, their fortitude, their dignity and their unswerving determination to seek the truth—however difficult that was—about how their loved ones died. The First Minister of Northern Ireland, Arlene Foster, put it extremely well when she said:

“Lots of lessons to be learned. Grief is grief. Justice must be blind. Too many empty chairs across NI and unanswered questions.”

The path to truth, justice and reconciliation, as we know, is an imperfect one. While the past cannot be changed, its truth can be acknowledged and reconciliations made easier. In that vein, the Prime Minister should come to the House to offer that apology in person on behalf of the citizens in whose names these actions were taken, and apologise not only for the length of time it has taken to bring truth to the families but for the unjustified and unjustifiable deaths of their entirely innocent loved ones. Does the Secretary of State agree more generally that justice delayed is justice denied and that the best interests of truth, reconciliation and the wider public interest are not best served by seeking to put a time bar on the pursuit of justice?

[Brandon Lewis]

As I have already said, both I and the Prime Minister have apologised, actually, and the Prime Minister, as I said in my statement, is writing directly to the families as well. As I said, no apology can make up for the loss and the pain that the families have been through. I share the hon. Gentleman’s sentiments and appreciate the tone that he has used. We are in full agreement. My view is that we need to get to the truth and we need to allow the families of the victims who want that information—the knowledge of what happened —to able to get to it much, much quicker. That is certainly something I am focused on. He is also quite right that this is not about having time bars on anything but having a process that means that the families do not have to wait decades to get to the bottom of what happened—to understand the truth of what happened.

Northern Ireland

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend, who chairs the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, makes a very good point. He is absolutely right, not just in his admiration for cinema, but in his recognition that there is work that we need to do. I share his view of cinema in that respect.

One of the things I am looking forward to working through is the delivery of the new deal programme, the £400 million investment we have secured on top of the city and growth deals and the investment through “New Decade, New Approach”. That is looking very specifically at how we help Northern Ireland benefit from and take forward opportunities in the years ahead, as well as working with the Executive through the £15 billion block grant, to make sure that we are creating opportunity. That includes skills for the future. The social fabric is part of that. I passionately feel that integrated education has to be an integral part of that future, to bring people together and make sure that people are getting a really good education and the economy is growing and thriving.

One thing that those of us who spend time in Northern Ireland always see is the entrepreneurial spirit and the ability to see opportunities and drive forward in a positive way, which is great for the economy and creates jobs. As we come out of covid, Northern Ireland’s economy can have a really bright future.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I associate myself with the remarks of both Front Benchers in their condemnation of the violence we have sadly seen. My thoughts are with those injured in the disturbances, and in particular with those in the emergency services who have been working hard to keep their communities safe.

The disorder we have seen in recent days represents, for those of us who grew up with strong memories of the troubles, scenes we thought we had left behind for good. We do not strengthen communities by encouraging criminality and disorder within them. We can all agree how sickening it was to see young children being encouraged in acts of violence by their elders who lived through that cycle of violence themselves.

Moving on from where we are will require a number of things. It will require respect for the law and those who enforce it, whether that is the officers of the PSNI, the leadership of the PSNI or the prosecution service. All must be supported fully in dealing with criminality and maintaining public order in a way that is consistent, fair and proportionate across all sections of Northern Ireland. Above all, it will require leadership, integrity, honesty and respect from politicians. There has, sadly, to date been a dearth of some of those qualities on show in the way that the protocol has been negotiated and implemented. The price being paid for that is sadly all too clear. The protocol was entered into freely by the UK Government and it is here to stay. Surely we can agree that the only route to amending it is through trust and good will on all sides.

The great success of the Good Friday agreement was in ensuring that the symbols of a border in the island of Ireland disappeared. If we can all agree that there is now a trade border, we can surely agree that the symbolism of that matters. One practical step, which I have raised with the Secretary of State before, would be to introduce a realignment of sanitary and phytosanitary checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. That would remove some of the more snagging aspects of the current protocol and the difficulties with symbolism that it causes. Will the Secretary of State, in his discussions with all partners in this process, continue discussions on whether that is something we can do to smooth the passage of the protocol? Will he agree to work with other devolved Governments, which that would also impact upon?

[Brandon Lewis]

I certainly agree with and appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s remarks in the first part of his statement.

The hon. Gentleman spent a fair part of his question referring to the protocol. We have to be very cautious when talking about the intentions, issues and views people have about the Northern Ireland protocol. As valid as they may be, they do not—it should never be argued that they do—in any way legitimise what we saw the other week. As others have said, it is right that we work through any disagreement in a political and democratic way. We also have to be very wary of the simplicity of thinking that what happened the other week was over one particular issue. As I think I outlined, and as the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) outlined, it was a multifaceted set of issues.

I recognise the issues that are there from the outworking on the protocol as we have seen it in the first part of this year. We are committed to wanting to deal with that. We are very clear that Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK and an integral part of the UK customs territory. The protocol was put in place primarily because the EU has a clear focus on protecting its single market. Our focus is on ensuring that the Belfast Good Friday agreement is respected in all of its strands, and that includes east-west. That is why we are very clear that while we want to ensure that goods moving into the EU through the Republic of Ireland are properly dealt with, goods that are moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britain are unfettered, as they are, and goods moving from Great Britain into Northern Ireland can do so freely and flexibly in a pragmatic approach.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We go to the Scottish National party spokesperson, Richard Thomson.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) [V]]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I echo the words of the Select Committee Chair: it is not the publicly stated objective of protecting the flow of goods that is at issue here; rather, it is the provocative and belligerent manner in which the Government seem to be determined to go about trying to achieve that.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said previously that he believed Northern Ireland was getting

“the best of both worlds”

through the protocol, and that any issues arising from the new arrangements could be resolved within the terms of that protocol, without needing to trigger the article 16 procedure. At a time when flexibility is needed, this action will ensure that the good will towards the UK Government that is needed to secure changes to the arrangement they took so long to negotiate is in shorter supply than ever before. The conduct of the Brexit negotiations came at the expense of the UK’s reputation for political stability and good governance. Is not this latest development one which will come at the expense of any lingering trust there may be in the UK Government as a trustworthy international partner, who can be relied upon to keep their word?

[Brandon Lewis]

We are a trustworthy partner and have always been clear about what we would do and the reasoning for what we are doing. Rather like the Irish Government did a few weeks ago when they took sensible flexibilities, we have taken flexibilities. We have given a timeline for them; they are temporary, operational and the right thing to do for the people of Northern Ireland.

Returning to the point made by the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) about stability in Northern Ireland, it is undoubtedly the case—it can be seen in any engagement in Northern Ireland across the entire community—that the action the EU took when it talked about and actually started to implement article 16 on that Friday night had a huge impact on communities across Northern Ireland, and the issue still lingers. We need to recognise and understand people’s sense of identity in Northern Ireland, the impact on it and the tension created by that action.

Our actions were about making sure that we did not have a further problem, which could well have occurred in the next couple of weeks. According to the businesses we have been dealing with, if we had not taken action urgently last week, there would have been empty shelves in Northern Ireland. That is not what the protocol is about and it is not fair to the people of Northern Ireland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I thank my hon. Friend for outlining this issue. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is very keen to ensure that GB businesses have all the information they need. My hon. Friend is right to highlight the fact that a number of the issues we have found relate to companies in Great Britain not appreciating what they can do in order to continue their smooth supplies to people in Northern Ireland. We want to ensure that that is the case. I encourage businesses to engage particularly with the trader support service, which is there to help businesses and, as I say, has phenomenal response and success rates in helping them to ensure that they can deliver. We as a Government will continue to fund it to ensure that it is there to support business and the people of Northern Ireland.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) [V]]

There is considerable anecdotal evidence from food producers that exports continue to be below pre-Brexit levels. With the retailers’ grace period ending this month, export health certificates will be required for imports of chilled and processed meats. How do the UK Government plan to ease specific concerns of the agrifood industry over this requirement ahead of the end of that grace period?

[Brandon Lewis]

In classic House of Commons terms, I refer the hon. Gentleman to an answer I gave a few moments ago: he will see our position in a written ministerial statement later today that deals with that very issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Thomson Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, indeed. My hon. Friend is completely right about the importance of the new UK shared prosperity fund. It will be different from the levelling-up fund and we are going to work closely with him and with people in Cornwall to ensure that we use the additional funding best for the needs of people and communities in Cornwall.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

This week, the Scottish Government announced a £500 bonus scheme for our health and social care heroes who have helped to care for us through the pandemic. The Scottish Conservatives have been trying to claim some reflected credit for that policy over the past few hours. The Prime Minister is not responsible for health in Scotland, but he is responsible for it in England, so will he put his Government’s money where his Scottish colleagues’ mouths clearly are and match that bonus initiative for health and social care workers in England? Will he instruct the Chancellor to ensure that, whenever a bonus scheme like that is introduced, the Treasury will not try to snaffle back the tax from it, but let it be paid tax-free?

[The Prime Minister]

On the last point, that is a matter for the Scottish Government, who have the fiscal freedom to do that. I thank health and social care workers in Scotland and across the whole country, and I am proud of the increases we have been able to put in—12.8% over the past three years, and a pay rise for 1 million people in the NHS, as part of the biggest ever investment in the NHS, even before covid began. This investment will continue under this Government.