Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I have always had an interesting relationship with the whipping system in Parliament. We are here as MPs to represent the constituents who have been good enough to send us here, and we are here to answer for ourselves. We must be prepared to ask these questions and to take part in these debates. Like the hon. Gentleman, I am extremely disappointed that there are so few Members here tonight. I suspect that it is because word has gone round, by text message from the Whips on both sides, that there is not going to be a vote. Most of our colleagues are probably either enjoying themselves on the Terrace or have gone home, when they should be in here debating this Bill. We could say the same for almost any piece of legislation that goes through the House.

I mentioned in an intervention the fundamental question of international jurisdiction. If someone comes to this country from a jurisdiction in which they have been tortured, irrationally imprisoned or abused, or if it is likely that they would suffer such a fate if they went back, we have a clear duty of protection to them under international law. Under the procedures of anti-terror legislation, someone who is suspected of terrorist activity or of harbouring plans for such activity can be detained virtually indefinitely under immigration law. Under the memorandums of understanding that were made between the previous Prime Minister but one, Tony Blair, and a number of Governments, such people can be returned to jurisdictions that have not signed the United Nations convention on torture.

I have a real problem with that. If we support the principles of international law and the international jurisdiction of conventions such as that one, we should carry them out to the fullest extent. We should not deport people to places where there is no protection of their rights under treaties that we have taken for ourselves. Just as when someone goes to prison, when an individual is accused of being a terrorist or of planning a terrorist activity, they do not stop being an individual and they do not lose all their rights. They do not stop being a citizen at that point.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman’s point about our deportation of people to countries that could torture them. Does he agree that it is a serious omission in the Bill that the bail conditions imposed by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission will be able to remain at the levels set out in the control orders that are being lessened by the Bill? Should not that omission be corrected?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Indeed so; the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That matter should be looked at in great detail in Committee. I hope that the Bill will be greatly changed in Committee and that we will hear about those changes on Report. I hope we will move away from the principle of control orders and the conditions that he rightly says are associated with them. I understand that Liberty, whose briefing on this matter I have neither read nor seen, for which I apologise, describes these measures as “low-fat” control orders that have been dressed up to resemble something that they are not.

I represent a mixed, inner-city community constituency, as do many other colleagues, and I am very proud to represent that area. The events of 2001, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq, the Bush-led war on terror, the axis of evil speech and similar things have had an enormous effect on community relations. They have also generated a degree of Islamophobia within our society and continue to do so, which is a very serious matter. The anti-terrorism legislation and the arguments surrounding the Prevent strategy, like so many other things, play into that agenda.

My borough suffered on 7/7: more people from my borough died than from any other borough—it was a dreadful, awful, terrible day. I do not believe, however, that counter-terrorism legislation that goes around the principle of the use of the criminal law or goes around the norms of parliamentary democracy and open justice will stop those things happening again. That whole process does not make us more safe; ultimately, it puts our society at greater risk and makes it more vulnerable.

Although we are debating a change in the legislation and the Bill is presented as being the end of control orders, the reality is that we are being presented with a different form of control orders. I look forward to the Committee asserting itself when the details of the Bill are debated and improving it a great deal by removing the whole principle of control orders.

Once we give away our powers to secret courts or give away accountability to secret services—I accept that only 48 control orders have been put in place—we are crossing a very big line. We should be very careful about doing that. Our job as Members of Parliament is to ask the awkward question; our job as MPs is to put very awkward questions to those employed by the state to look after law and order and protect us. Above all, our task is to ensure that our liberties are safe, our democracy is safe and that individuals will not be detained irrationally for a very long time on the basis of hearsay evidence that would simply not stand up in a criminal court. That is a bad thing for a democracy; it is a bad thing for us to do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker), who said that the best speeches tended to come towards the end of a debate. As probably one of the last speakers I am about to show that that hypothesis is not always correct. How can I possibly match up to a Member who quoted not only Benjamin Franklin, but William Pitt and good old Ronald Reagan, in his speech in defence of his views on control orders today?

It was interesting earlier to hear the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) describe the original debates that went on until 4 am. I can imagine that at that time the Benches here would have been full with Members debating this important issue of liberty. We look around today and we see a lot more green Benches than people. Perhaps that is because most hon. Members are at ease with providing and continuing these regulations and powers for the Executive, and perhaps that is to be welcomed. But I think that ease comes largely because of our fear of the worst if those powers were taken away. I am not sure that that is the best way for us to set our laws, so I am not at ease with what is being proposed here today.

We have heard today from people who are learned in law and people with experience of making these tough decisions in the Executive. I have neither of those things, so I come from a simpler point of view, which is that in England we should not lock people up without telling them why. In supporting this legislation today, we are essentially denying that statement. It has been said that we should not trust all Home Secretaries—perhaps not all Home Secretaries—but I certainly trust and have faith in the current Home Secretary. She has brought a skill and effectiveness to an extremely difficult brief and has impressed Members on both sides of the House. As many hon. Members have said, the Home Secretary understands and bears the weight of more knowledge and has more access to knowledge and people with knowledge than we do ourselves.

The context for what is being proposed essentially stems from the events of the last 10 years. The hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) recounted some of those, from the rise of radical ideology, through the nurturing of terrorism, the convulsions after 9/11, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the attacks here on UK soil and those attacks that have been prevented. Those are indeed mighty issues for the state to handle, and I do not doubt the sincerity of Governments of any colour in how they wished to handle them. Those challenges certainly demanded a robust approach, but one that should have preserved our core values and freedoms, because they are beacons for a wider world that yearns for the freedoms that we have. We have a responsibility beyond these shores to ensure that, in setting our laws, we set an example that we wish other countries to follow. That should be the highest of examples we can set.

The previous Government’s response may now be judged to have been overreach and their actions to have done too much damage to our precious freedoms and to have been in some respects ineffective or counter-productive. Those measures included detention without trial, secret courts, special attorneys, hidden evidence, the imposition of high levels of restriction on people who were never charged and did not know the case against them, forced relocation, internal exile and the transfer of judicial authority to the Executive branch. We were told, “Don’t worry, because they are all temporary emergency measures, so they are okay.” Well, in my view they were never okay, and as the years passed they seemed less and less temporary.

For this Government, the test for how to change the legislation had to be set higher. The Bill before us declares it as such:

“A BILL TO Abolish control orders”.

As many hon. Members have said, it would have been fine if it had stopped there, but it went on to state that it would also

“make provision for the imposition of terrorism prevention and investigation measures.”

There we get into the weighing up of the freedoms on one side and the prevention of harm on the other. The details do not live up to the billing. In the absence of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, I must ask: when did we shift away from fundamental challenge based on principle? When did our assertion of centuries-old principles of English justice succumb to one more round of Executive caution? For me, there must be good, specific reasons behind the rationale for each measure and specific examples of their effectiveness. That will be the challenge in Committee and, if it is not met there, when the Bill comes back on Report, because general statements will not help. They will lead us to similar mistakes that we now see that the previous Government, even with the best intentions, may have made in their legislation.

I have two concerns, one of which I will talk about for most of my speech and the other I will mention briefly. My main concern to address to the Minister is the omission of the immigration bail conditions imposed by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission. Control orders were originally intended for UK citizens and non-UK citizens, but now they are exclusively for UK citizens. At the end of 2006, 18 people were on control orders, nine of whom were non-UK citizens. At the end of 2010, 10 people were on control orders, all of whom were UK citizens. My question to the Minister is this: have SIAC bail conditions been used as a proxy for control orders? Why are they not included in this review to bring those conditions to the same level as the Government now propose for control orders? SIAC bail conditions will still permit forced relocation, forced curfews, monitoring with the same level of secrecy and the lack of access, all without any charges being brought. They belonged in the Bill, so I look forward to hearing from the Minister why they are not there.

I will bring an example to the attention of the House. We have heard about CD and about AM, but I would like to talk about Y—Mustapha Taleb. I read about him in the book “Ricin”. Ricin was one of those footnotes in the approach to the Iraq war, with the “ricin plot”, or, some would say, the “ricin plot that never was”.

Mustapha Taleb came to the UK in 2001, having been tortured in his home country of Algeria. He was arrested in 2003 as part of the “ricin plot”, taken to court, tried and found not guilty of all charges. He was arrested again in 2005, after the 7/7 attacks, and SIAC imposed immigration bail conditions on him. Those conditions have been in place effectively for the six years subsequent to that point, so when people talk about one year or two years, they ought to understand that people in this country now have been living under conditions as severe as control orders for the past six years—and there is no relief for them in the Bill.

What does that say about British justice—forced relocation, imposed curfews, the monitoring of all communications and a denial of freedom for six years? For what? We do not know. Mustapha does not know, he has not been charged; his lawyers do not know, they have not seen the evidence; and I do not know why those conditions are not being relieved in the Bill. I strongly urge the Home Secretary to accept, and hope that she will do so in Committee, an amendment to bring them into the same form as control orders.

My second point, and quickly, is on temporary versus permanent. I mention it not only because I support the notion of many hon. Members that a review each year would be helpful, but because, having listened to the debate, it is quite clear that when someone goes from the Opposition Benches to the Government Front Bench the intention, the principle and the idealism are lessened—and lessened to the point of extinction. That position may well be right, but it is important that we challenge it every year here, where those voices of idealism can still be heard, even if today they make up a minority of the voices who were here six years ago. They still deserve to be heard every year on the matter.

I have great confidence in our Home Secretary and, of course, understand that as a Back Bencher I have only partial access to the information that she and Ministers have. I do believe, however, that we have missed an opportunity with this Bill to restore English liberty to its highest levels of respect. I urge the Government to consider a sunset clause and to align immigration bail conditions with the new control orders.

In the case of Mr Taleb, I just quote the members of the jury who acquitted him. When the SIAC conditions were put in place, they subsequently said:

“As three ordinary members of the public we have had our eyes opened to such an unfair and unjust sequence of events orchestrated by the authorities that we feel compelled to speak out. This is contrary to anything we thought could be possible in a democratic, free society. Since January 2003, ‘Y’”—

Mustapha Taleb—

“has been persecuted by our government beyond all realms of imagination.”

I urge the Minister to listen to that and to look for further changes.

Policing and Crime

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams]

I am happy to come to that, but it is important to set out the statistics that I have just given, which show that there has been a cut from a level that enabled the police force to work effectively.

We have also heard about the recruitment freezes, and about some police forces using the legal loophole in the police pensions regulations forcibly to retire police officers with over 30 years’ experience; they are some of our most experienced officers. Another issue is the Government’s fixation with what they call front-line or visible policing. We must not forget the important role that specialist units play in domestic violence and child protection cases. They are important areas that also need to be valued.

What most people cannot understand, however, is why, at the same time as putting communities at risk with cuts to the police force, the Government are proposing to spend more than £100 million on 42 elected police commissioners. That is the equivalent of 600 full-time posts. It just does not make sense.

In last year’s manifesto, Labour made a commitment to maintaining the then police staffing levels, with a three-year assured programme of investment. We were going to make tough choices elsewhere, in procurement, IT and overtime.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

I am terribly sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, because we are about to hear where exactly she would make cuts. We all look forward to that. She speaks assuredly about the number of police officers under the last Labour Government, but many of my constituents tell me that they never saw a police officer on their streets during that time. How many more police officers would she offer, in order to give assurance to my constituents?

[Debbie Abrahams]

I am talking about the situation that we have now, with the hon. Gentleman’s Government in power. I had thousands of petitions presented to me during the by-election specifically on the subject of cuts in police numbers. I must also remind him that the Deputy Prime Minister promised to increase police numbers.

The effects of the cuts have already been noted by the Conservative chair of the Association of Police Authorities, who said that they would ultimately put at risk progress in reducing crime. In my constituency, the Oldham division of the Greater Manchester police has expressed concern not only about the direct effects of the cuts on police spending but about the cuts to the local authority budget and the abolition of area-based grants, all of which will have significant effects. The partnership working between the police, the local authority and the voluntary sector has had immense benefits for crime prevention and community safety—for example, in target-hardening measures such as alley-gating. There is strong evidence that such measures have a significant benefit for vulnerable properties. Other measures that have brought benefits include youth programmes and offender management.

I have been contacted by nearly 50 local police officers living in my constituency. Not only are they fearful for their jobs but the recent Winsor review and Hutton report will have significant implications for their terms and conditions and for their pensions. Sergeant David Donlan asked me:

“How many people have to go to work in body armour, routinely putting their lives at risk to protect our communities, and yet have imposed on them where they can live, who they can associate with or even marry? We can’t join a union, let alone strike.”

I am committed to working closely with the police on reform, but I think that the Government have mishandled this review process and treated police officers poorly. The Home Secretary pre-empted the final report and has attempted to paint the police as inefficient and not interested in reform. I urge her to reconsider the question of the royal commission. The discussions that I have had with local police officers make it clear that they want to see modernisation, but it must be fair. I know that we will be debating pensions soon, but the point for this debate is that, in addition to major changes in terms and conditions and cuts to the work force, the changes to their pensions are yet another hit for the police.

My final point concerns the long-term consequences of the Government’s cuts. In addition to the short and medium-term impacts on crime, I am worried about the long-term effects that these ideologically driven cuts will have on the social fabric of our society. Last week, we heard how pay disparities between the UK’s highest and lowest paid workers were taking us back to Victorian times. There is strong evidence that the increase in socio-economic inequalities will not only result in widening differences in life expectancy between the rich and poor but be associated with higher levels of crime and disaffection. The trust that underpins community cohesion and positive relationships in a multicultural society is once again being eroded by a Tory Government who are determined to drive their disastrous cuts through.

Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Nick Herbert]

I have defined it on a number of occasions, including in a written answer. Let me repeat it for the hon. Gentleman: front-line policing

“includes neighbourhood policing, response policing and criminal investigation.”—[Official Report, 8 February 2011; Vol. 523, c. 194W.]

There can be savings in the back and middle offices, as at least a third of all spending is in those areas. If he thinks that there is no definition of front-line policing, how can he be so confident that there will be cuts in the front line? His position is nonsense.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

12. If she will bring forward proposals to change immigration bail conditions to make them consistent with proposed conditions for control orders.

[The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green)]

The Government see no need to review the range of bail conditions that may be imposed in immigration cases. We will continue to seek bail conditions that enable us to manage the threat posed by the individual. These will vary from case to case.

[Richard Fuller]

I hear that answer, but how can it be right that the Special Immigration Appeals Commission is able to impose conditions on people, perhaps those who have been granted indefinite leave to remain, on charges that are not disclosed to them, that restrict their communications and movement and force relocation, conditions that the Government say are unacceptable in control orders? How can that be right for people in those circumstances?

[Damian Green]

SIAC deals primarily with cases where an individual poses a threat to national security, so we must take all the issues surrounding those individual cases extremely seriously. As such, SIAC sets bail conditions that it considers necessary to control any risk of absconding and the threat posed to national security, whether or not the individual absconds. I am sure that my hon. Friend will recognise that SIAC has enormous responsibilities and takes them very seriously in each individual case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs May]

Of course safeguarding children is important—we all have that as top priority. Of course, the regime that is in place will in future cover those who deal with vulnerable adults as well as children. That is important. The information that informs a decision on barring will be available as part of the check so that a decision can be made. However, as the right hon. Lady has raised a query about that, I am happy to write to her with the detail on it so that she will have that to inform her questions in future.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

T3. On a similar theme, law-abiding volunteers and employees in Bedford and Kempston are quite fed up with having to get a new Criminal Records Bureau check each time they change jobs. Can the Home Secretary tell me how those checks will change to avoid that ridiculous duplication that so debilitates so many volunteers and employees?

[Lynne Featherstone]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point. Many people write to me about the problem of having a new CRB check on each occasion. The new system will make the check portable. An employer will be able to go online to see whether an individual, who will have a unique number, ever had any information on them and whether anything has changed since they first had a check. That will make the whole system simple and quick, which will encourage volunteering, which is part of the purpose.

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)]

As the Minister said, the threat level to our country remains at “severe”, and the threat of terrorism is never far away. We are a high-profile country that will be holding high-profile events this year and next, so there cannot and should not be any room for complacency.

We should congratulate and thank our security services and police on their co-ordinated work in keeping us all safe. They do a tremendous job, and we know of the plots that have been foiled in the recent period. It is our duty in the House to provide them with the tools and procedures that they need to do their job effectively. Sometimes, that means walking the difficult line between balancing individual freedom and collective safety, with the rights of the wider community sometimes outweighing the rights of the individual. Control orders have been the tool for that.

As has been said, in an ideal world we would not wish to use control orders. It would be greatly preferable if our criminal justice system could deal with terrorists who wished us harm. However, as previous Home Secretaries and Ministers have said, control orders have become a necessary evil. Until an alternative comes forward that gives the same level of protection, we have to accept that.

As the Minister said, this is the sixth annual review of control orders since the power was introduced in the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005. The order before us provides for the continuation of the power to make a control order against an individual when the Secretary of State has

“reasonable grounds for suspecting that the individual is or has been involved in terrorism-related activity”

and considers it necessary to impose obligations on that individual for the purpose of protecting members of the public from the risk of terrorism. That has to be the major priority for any Government.

Lord Carlile, who was the independent reviewer of terrorism, said in a previous report that one person subject to a control order was

“a dangerous terrorist who would re-engage with terrorism the moment he could.”

That is the type of person we are dealing with. I add my congratulations to Lord Carlile on his nine years in the job. He did a tremendous job, and I know that it challenged his political views on control orders and other terrorism-related matters.

The original intention behind control orders was to deal with foreign terrorists who could not be deported or prosecuted. As the Minister said, eight people are under control orders at the moment, and some of those orders have been made since the coalition Government came to power. As I understand it—he may be able to confirm this or otherwise—the current control orders are all on UK citizens as opposed to foreign nationals.

Yesterday, the Home Secretary announced in the Protection of Freedoms Bill what we see as a weakening of anti-terror legislation. We have also seen the ridiculous situation of the order on 28-day detention being allowed to lapse without the draft emergency legislation being in place. That legislation has now been published, but as yet we do not know when we will discuss it. There may be a difficulty if it is introduced when the House is not sitting and there needs to be a recall of Parliament for us to scrutinise it.

As the Minister said, the Home Secretary wants to repeal control orders, as she said in her statement to the House on 26 January following the belated counter-terrorism review. She said that too much of the 2005 Act was “excessive and unnecessary”, but she and the Minister have admitted that for the foreseeable future there are likely to be a small number of people who pose a real threat to our security but who cannot currently be prosecuted or deported.

We need to know whether the replacement for control orders will be weaker and whether it will protect the country as it should. We would like to hear from the Minister what evidence came from the security services and the police about the new regime that he and the Home Secretary want to introduce. There is a suspicion on our side that it is a political fix to get the Deputy Prime Minister out of a mess, and that it has to do with the reality of being in government as opposed to the rhetoric of Opposition. I say that because the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister realised, on the advice of the security services and the police, that there are dangerous people out there, whom we must tackle. I hope that the new regime is evidence-based, and I will be interested in any evidence that the security forces and the police publish about their viewpoints.

If the Minister is able to respond to the debate in the time available, will he react to the House of Lords Joint Committee report and its recommendations on the scrutiny of the new proposals?

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

Some of us recognise that control orders are the jewel in the crown of the previous Government’s authoritarian legislation. The hon. Gentleman said that we are discussing the sixth annual renewal. Does he believe that the existing rules on control orders—that necessary evil—are perfect? If not, did he ever vote them down on the five other occasions they were discussed?

[Mr Sutcliffe]

No. The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. As I said, every time the matter has been discussed, the Minister of the day has said that it is a difficult matter, and that we much prefer to get to the point of prosecution so that the criminal justice system deals with it. However, as Lord Carlile, who was the independent regulator, found, there are circumstances for which the criminal justice system cannot cater in that way.

[Richard Fuller]

I greatly appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s giving way again. He used the word “weaker”, but a change in the law could be perceived as an improvement rather than a weakening. We should be careful when we use such words because they can have different meanings in different contexts.

[Mr Sutcliffe]

I take the point, but that relates to the parliamentary scrutiny of the new proposals, and perhaps I will deal later with how we can consider that further.

Counter-terrorism policy has to be built on evidence and on advice from the security services and the police, not political fixes. That is important because Members of Parliament do not get the detail of exactly what has occurred. We get the independent reviewer’s report, but we do not get the information about what has happened. Usually the Home Secretary, sometimes on Privy Council advice, gives briefings to the Opposition. When we discuss the new regime, that might be a way forward to work together to try to ensure that we understand what exactly is happening on the ground.

The Minister referred to the replacement legislation in discussing what the Home Secretary said on 26 January. She asked the independent commissioner, David Anderson, to pay particular attention to the new measures in his first report. That is fine, but the Minister used the word “shortly”, which was a favourite of mine when I was a Minister, and means any time between now and a given date a long time in the future. When does the Minister expect the proposed legislation to be available so that we can discuss the various issues that we face?

I particularly want to debate the difference between a curfew and an overnight residence requirement. The Minister mentioned a possible difference in hours, but we will see how we go.

The legislative proposals need to be scrutinised. The new control order regime pays particular attention to surveillance and we are told that sufficient finance will be available for the resource-intensive proposal to the police and the security services. Will the Minister confirm that it will be new money? How will the continuation of the current control order regime deal with the financial cuts that the police and the security services face? How much will the police budget for counter-terrorism be? How will a cut in that budget affect control orders? Is there any likelihood of needing to increase the number of control orders as prisoners detained under counter-terrorism measures are released and returned to our streets? Has any assessment been made of the possible increases in the need for control orders? Another issue that was raised the last time we debated control orders was the cost to the Exchequer arising from legal challenges made by controlees. Will the Minister inform us of those costs?

All hon. Members recognise that the safety and security of the public are difficult issues. We have long-held traditions of individual rights and freedoms, but as I said, given the world that we live in, there is a difficult balance to achieve. Evidence-based policy is vital, and we should err on the side of caution when it comes to the safety of the public. The Opposition will obviously support the extension of the orders this evening. We look forward to the new legislation on how we work and scrutinise what happens. We hope to reach a consensus that meets the requirements of individual freedoms while putting the safety of our country to the fore.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Raab]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. In fairness, that was in the context of an overall conflict resolution settlement. I was not a Member of the House at the time, but I pay deference to an important and valid point.

[Richard Fuller]

On my hon. Friend’s point about the critical importance of prosecution, is he aware that many of the conditions that apply to control orders also apply to immigration bail conditions: relocation, restriction on communication and tagging, all without any charge and imposed indefinitely? Does he agree that it will be an omission if those restrictions in the conditions are not also considered for change in the review?

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point and is absolutely right that those restrictions should be considered.

My hon. Friend the Member for Newark made an important point about the significance of measures that we consider in this House. The political heat that the debate on control orders has generated over a number of years bears scant resemblance to their relevance as a security measure. In fact, that distracts us from grappling with a growing prosecutorial deficit, which in my view is one of the major problems we face.

There are other vital reforms that we should be grappling with but are not because of the political lightning rod of control orders. Most notably in my view, we should be reforming the Human Rights Act 1998 so that we can deport criminals and terrorist suspects more readily. I want to be clear that we would not necessarily deport them to face torture—I do not support that—but there has been an expansion in article 8 cases, which prevents deportation when it might disrupt family life; I currently have a constituency case dealing with that. That is a bridge too far and a result of judicial legislation. Some changes to the Human Rights Act would restore some balance in that respect.

The increasing fetters on deportation mean that we are importing risk, which is one reason why the previous Government resorted to so much authoritarian legislation in the first place. In deference to this Government, I welcome the fact that they are expediting the review on the Human Rights Act and the case for a Bill of Rights. That is an important piece of work and it should not end up in the long grass.

I support the Minister in his efforts, but I struggle to see the case for keeping alive this broken control order regime to limp on indefinitely when there is so much else that we can and should be doing to deport and prosecute those who threaten our country with terrorism.

Counter-terrorism Review

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

There is much to welcome in my right hon. Friend’s statement, but thousands of people around the world are subject to arbitrary internment by Executive fiat and they should look to Britain as a beacon of freedom. What consideration has she made of the impact on this nation’s voice for liberty and justice arising from this lost opportunity to place control orders where they should be: fully within the criminal justice system?

[Mrs May]

I think that people will look at what the Government have done today and see a responsible Government who have recognised the need to ensure that the protection of the public and national security is our priority while retaining and strengthening those freedoms and civil liberties that we have valued over the centuries.

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making some very important points about the balance of responsibility for binge drinking. Does he agree that the burden of the balance of responsibility is placed unduly on the pubs and not sufficiently on the supermarkets? Regulation focuses on the pubs and there is insufficient regulation of the supermarkets. Does he think that this is an opportunity to redress that balance?

[Neil Carmichael]

Funnily enough, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. When one considers the number of regulations and bureaucratic requirements that a pub has to fulfil, we wonder why people want to be landlords. They do so because they enjoy the job and do a great thing for communities, but they are often discouraged from getting on with the job because of all the work that they have to do. My hon. Friend is right about supermarkets. If we consider the abolition of resale price maintenance and the relentless march of supermarkets in number and size over the past few years, we realise that supermarkets are not controlled as much as they should be. We need to consider some sort of ombudsman system to ensure that supermarkets have a more responsible approach to drinking.

The other thing about supermarkets is that they are quite powerful. They are able to control price, and supply and demand. We must recognise that. As a farmer, I remember being told what prices my products would be simply because the group of five supermarkets concerned knew in advance how much they would pay. Let us remember that supermarkets have power and let us be prepared to address the question of binge drinking with that in mind. However, we should also have in mind the restrictions and problems that pubs have been confronting over the past few years.

In summary, let us be confident about the role of the commissioners. Government Members think that they are a great thing and one Labour Member obviously supports that direction of travel. We must accept that our police authorities do not set the world on fire in discussing policing policy, and we must think very carefully about value for money and ensuring that police forces are much more responsive to people’s needs. Is it not simply right for local communities to feel that they are being listened to? Sometimes just the act of listening can lift a huge amount of confusion and alarm from local communities, who are often bewildered by other more complicated arrangements for expressing themselves. The Bill is good. It is the right kind of measure and it is consistent with localism and with law and order. Above all, it is consistent with setting a useful agenda for responsible behaviour in our society.

Youth Violence (London)

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the complexity of the problems surrounding this difficult issue. I am afraid that I cannot give him a direct answer to the specific point that he raises about any decision that the Mayor may or may not have made on Operation Trident. However, I should be happy to make inquiries and, as required, write to him if that would be of assistance to him. What I can tell him is that the Mayor of London has recently appointed an expert advisory group made up of members of the black communities to support him on a number of those complex issues. The information I have is that the Mayor remains focused on the issue, recognising the difficulties, challenges and complexities that many hon. Members have highlighted in this debate.

There is much more work being led by the Metropolitan police and partners in London. A new anti-violence board brings together partners in the police, health, education, offender management and the community, along with parents. It will focus on the most dangerous offenders, hot-spot locations and protecting the most vulnerable victims. In addition, this year the Home Office is providing £700,000 to tackle youth violence in the capital. Lambeth, in the constituency of the hon. Member for Streatham, is one area benefiting from that funding.

I also want to highlight the Mayor’s “Time for Action” programme, which recognises that to reduce youth violence we must ensure that young Londoners are a valued part of their communities and that they can contribute in meaningful ways. The programme focuses on: for the first time, giving young offenders in custody the tools to get them into work; tackling truancy; supporting young people in care to go to university; promoting sport; working with uniformed organisations to help build young peoples’ character; and sharing good practice.

I would particularly like to acknowledge the Mayor’s work to encourage the mentoring of at-risk black boys in Lambeth and other boroughs. The issue of young black men being disproportionately at risk of being victims and offenders is a challenging one—a fact that has rightly been brought to our attention in the debate tonight—and I certainly support all the initiatives that show a determination to take this on.

So there is an impressive array of work going on in the capital aimed at keeping young people safe. I hope that all hon. Members will join me in extending thanks to all those in London—the police, the Mayor, local authorities, community leaders and those in the local communities—who have worked so hard to contribute to this difficult work. Some of those excellent projects are currently being visited by Brooke Kinsella, whose brother Ben was tragically murdered in London two years ago. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have asked Brooke to head up a fact-finding mission to assess the work going on across the country to tackle youth violence. I am very pleased to have her working with us, but sorry that it was the loss of her brother that drew her into this work.

Brooke is visiting projects in London and across the country that are working to prevent young people from getting pulled into a world of violence. I know that she has visited some of the good work that is under way in the constituency of the hon. Member for Streatham, and seen a great deal of dedicated voluntary and community sector work with young people. Her findings will be presented to the Home Secretary later this year, to help to shape the Government’s work in tackling serious violence among young people.

I would like to take this opportunity to place on record the Government’s appreciation of Ms Kinsella’s dedication. I know that the projects she has visited have appreciated her time and support for their work to protect young people, and that she has been inspired by some of the excellent and varied work being led by local communities up and down the country. Some of those projects have been funded through the Home Office community fund, which, since 2009, has provided 144 small community organisations with £10,000 each per year to stop young people committing violence. I know that funding is always an issue, and in the current financial climate, that will continue to be the case. However, I know that Brooke has been very impressed at the work being undertaken, often with minimal funding but always with a great deal of commitment, hard work and community good will.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

The hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) made some excellent points in his speech, and there was only one matter in which I had cause to disagree with him. That was when he described the pessimism about the response of the private sector and corporations. We are talking about crimes against young people in London, which is a centre for many businesses and corporations. Does the Minister accept that this Government, having inherited the current financial situation and therefore being able to do less themselves, have a responsibility to encourage those who are able to create great profits in this same city to do more, using measures such as social impact bonds and early intervention? What can he do to encourage more to happen on that front?

[James Brokenshire]

My hon. Friend mentions social impact bonds and other means of drawing funding together from a range of different sectors. He might be aware of some of the innovative work that has been done in Peterborough prison to look at outcome-based issues and the structuring of a payment-by-results method. The Government are really looking to achieve positive results, and we are certainly looking closely at the way in which the third sector and the private sector can be joined together to make a combined difference. In raising the issue of the role of the private sector and of corporate social responsibility, my hon. Friend has made an important and powerful point.

I also want to touch on the work of the Victims Commissioner, and to reassure families that this Government are committed to supporting victims of crime through the criminal justice system. That is an important aspect of all this. Since Victim Support’s homicide service was set up earlier this year, it has supported 457 individuals from more than 200 families, including after the tragic events in Cumbria. This service ensures that families bereaved by murder and manslaughter benefit from a professional caseworker and tailored, intensive support. I also want to draw the House’s attention to the work of Louise Casey, the Victims Commissioner. In her inaugural public speech, she outlined her first impressions of victim and witness care, and talked about how we could take the work further forward.

I am conscious that the end of the debate is drawing near, but I want briefly to mention the accident and emergency data-sharing work that is under way to ensure that we have good information, as well as the sentencing review that is being undertaken by the Ministry of Justice and the work being done on gang injunctions—

Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Fuller Excerpts

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Nick Herbert]

The right hon. Gentleman may be offering himself as a candidate to serve on the pay review that we are proposing. Perhaps I should have a discussion with him about that. We have to strike a balance. Many chief constables believe overtime is an important management tool, but we are concerned about the extent of its use. That is exactly the kind of thing the pay review will have to look at.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

10. What recent progress the UK Border Agency has made on processing the backlog of outstanding asylum cases.

[The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green)]

Under the previous Government, the chief executive of the UK Border Agency wrote to the Home Affairs Select Committee periodically to update it on this issue. However, in the interests of transparency, I am happy to update right hon. and hon. Members in the House today. Until the end of May 2010 the UK Border Agency had concluded 277,000 cases.

[Richard Fuller]

I thank the Minister for that answer. As he is aware, Yarl’s Wood family detention centre is located outside Bedford. Does he agree that the Government’s determination to end the detention of children for asylum purposes will be most welcome to people as a measure of fairness? It will be regarded as something that is long overdue and that shamefully eluded the previous Government.

[Damian Green]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point, which I regard as important. In a spirit of non-partisanship, I think it is regarded as important on both sides of the House. When we held a Westminster Hall debate on the subject last week, I was struck by the fact that there was universal approval of the new Government’s desire to end the detention of children—although the point was made that it might have been the last time as Minister for Immigration that I ever got universal approval for anything. However, we should welcome such steps forward while we have them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs May]

I believe that introducing that important element of democratic accountability for police forces and not getting involved in operational matters, which will remain with the operational independence of police chiefs, is important. The hon. Gentleman’s question implies something with which I disagree. It implies that he is not willing to trust the British people and the common sense of the British people to elect people who will do a good job in their area.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

T5. The Home Secretary is aware of the current discussions about a potential merger of the police forces of Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire. Does she agree that such discussions are worth while at this time to achieve a fairer allocation of police resourcing and a more efficient allocation of resources where it matters—on the front line with our police?

[The Minister for Police (Nick Herbert)]

I can confirm to my hon. Friend that I am due to have a meeting with the chief constables of Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire to discuss the matter. I will also talk to locally elected representatives. It is important that if voluntary mergers of police forces go ahead, they do so with the consent of local people.