Oral Answers to Questions

Richard Bacon Excerpts

Thursday 23rd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Julia Lopez]

I spoke to my noble Friend the heritage Minister in preparation for this question and in doing so got to know a bit more about Piece Hall, a fantastic heritage site in the hon. Member’s constituency. I commend the work of all local activists to protect that building and bring it into public use. It is a wonderful example of an 18th century northern cloth hall, which now has a modern purpose. We are very grateful for the work that has gone into it. She may be aware that we also have the cultural development fund, which has allowed communities across the country to retain important public buildings with heritage value, repurpose them and breathe life into the communities that most need them.

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

On the subject of heritage buildings, may I add my own thanks to yours, Mr Speaker, to the Clerk of Legislation, Liam Laurence Smyth, who really is an institution in this place? He was for many years a close colleague of my late father-in-law, Stephen Panton, who served this House as a Clerk for 33 years. Mr Laurence Smyth has done a great deal for many of us in this House and has been personally enormously helpful to me. While I am still in order, Mr Speaker, and on the subject of heritage buildings, does the Minister agree that for many people in South Norfolk the Diss Express feels like a heritage building and should be protected and celebrated accordingly?

[Julia Lopez]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight the Diss Express, which I presume is a heritage railway—

[Mr Bacon]

It is a local newspaper.

[Julia Lopez]

It is a local newspaper—I do apologise.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

1. If he will make an assessment of the adequacy of National Audit Office resources to scrutinise the cost of AI in Government.

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk)]

The National Audit Office does have adequate resources to scrutinise the cost of artificial intelligence and, indeed, produced a report in March that found that AI presents Government with significant opportunities to transform public services and that the Government have identified that artificial intelligence could deliver substantial productivity gains, potentially worth billions.

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend has identified the report in which I am interested. That report, as he rightly says, noted the importance of artificial intelligence in delivering transformational public services, but also noted a number of challenges. In the dying embers of this Parliament, would he be willing to leave a message for the next Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, urging that an inquiry be carried out into that report, as I believe its findings are of considerable importance?

[Mr Bacon]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that it is an important subject, and the Public Accounts Committee was due to take oral evidence on it on 17 June. I will certainly draw his concerns to the attention of the new Chair of the Public Accounts Committee when I know who he or she is.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his response. This is a massive subject and will have to be scrutinised greatly in the next term of government. What assessment has been made of the potential negatives of AI within the defence industry and Government, and what steps will be taken to combat them?

[Mr Bacon]

I think the short answer is that there is inadequate awareness inside Government—although there is some awareness—that there are potentially very large negatives with artificial intelligence. Indeed, one of the inventors of artificial intelligence has written a book on precisely that subject. I suspect that it is something the Government will continue to assess.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

2. If he will make an assessment of the adequacy of National Audit Office resources to undertake analysis on the efficiency and effectiveness of NHS procurement.

[Mr Richard Bacon]

In its January report, the National Audit Office established that the NHS supply chain has great potential to secure further savings by aggregating the NHS’s spending power, but that so far it has not fulfilled that potential.

[Mr Hollobone]

In its January report on the NHS supply chain, the National Audit Office made seven recommendations to improve the efficiency of the NHS’s £8 billion annual procurement programme, including the need to improve prices and make ordering as straightforward as possible. The National Audit Office reports twice a year on whether Departments have implemented its recommendations, so will it use that mechanism to monitor the progress of the NHS supply chain?

[Mr Bacon]

I am sure the Comptroller and Auditor General and his staff at the National Audit Office will want to listen very carefully to what my hon. Friend has said, although I must tell him that the inability of the NHS to use its huge spending power more successfully on behalf of taxpayers and patients has been a hardy perennial throughout my entire 23 years in Parliament. While I wish him well in his endeavours, I would advise him not to hold his breath.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a little-known fact that from 1979 to 1981, I was a member of the Public Accounts Committee. I really enjoyed that experience. This is one of my last questions in this House after nearly 45 years here. Can we do more to show incoming Members of Parliament how powerful a body the Public Accounts Committee is and what an amazing resource it is for Members of Parliament in getting inquiries, looking at funding and looking at the wise spending of Government? Could we have a programme—again, perhaps there could be a note on the desk—to teach new Members how important this national treasure is?

[Mr Bacon]

Having spent 16 years on the Public Accounts Committee, I completely agree with what the hon. Gentleman says. It is, in my view, one of the best places to spend one’s time as a parliamentarian, checking that our constituents’ money as taxpayers is safeguarded and well looked after by whichever Government of the day happens temporarily to be in office. I commend what he has said to everyone.

The hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—