Rail Services from and to Scotland

Debate between Philip Hollobone and Mark Lazarowicz

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

I welcome Members to our debate this afternoon.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you very much, Mr Hollobone. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair today. I take this opportunity to extend the compliments of the season to you and other Members, and to members of our staff in the room today.

I am very glad to have this opportunity to raise a number of issues concerning rail services in Scotland. For the most part, rail services within Scotland are a devolved responsibility of the Scottish Government, and I certainly do not wish—and would not be allowed by you, Chair—to deal with matters under that devolved responsibility. However, there are some important aspects of rail in Scotland for which policy or legislation is made at UK level, and I wish to raise those today.

The first issue is the future of cross-border rail services, and perhaps today is a very appropriate time to raise it, given that over the Christmas and new year period many passengers will be using the services to visit family and friends both north and south of the border. At present, the cross-border services fall under the franchise arrangements controlled by the Department for Transport, with its responsibility for services throughout Great Britain. However, those arrangements are now under threat, as a result of proposals put forward by the Scottish Government’s transport agency, Transport Scotland. As part of options for the future of rail services in Scotland, Transport Scotland is

“considering whether services north of Edinburgh should be provided by the Scottish franchisee, with Edinburgh becoming an interchange hub for cross-border services in the east of the country. In this scenario cross-border services would terminate at Edinburgh Waverley, with onward connections being provided by ScotRail.”

As a result of the cross-border services stopping at Edinburgh and Glasgow, there would be no through trains from England to destinations further north, such as Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness to name just a few. For that to happen, I understand that the Scottish Government would have to get the agreement of the UK Government to change the franchise arrangements, so today I want to raise my concerns about that possibility, in the hope that the Minister of State will listen to Members and will herself express reservations about the proposal. I also express my concerns today in the hope that Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government will listen.

At present, there are seven trains a day from England to destinations north of Edinburgh and Glasgow—plus the sleeper services, about which I will speak later—which provide through links, not just on the east coast line to London but on the west coast line to the English midlands and the south and south-west of England. Seven trains does not sound like many, but that is perhaps 2,000 plus seats a day, and is equal to perhaps 20 planes or 500 cars. I, and many others in Scotland, and indeed in England, believe that if the proposals result in the termination of cross-border services at Edinburgh and Glasgow, they are a serious mistake.

The option suggests that there would be an “interchange hub” at Edinburgh, but that is not a good idea. Edinburgh Waverley, as anyone who uses it will know, is a large station with about 20 platforms at the last count, and one could well imagine passengers, particularly the more frail, taking at least 15 minutes to change trains, allowing for time to go through the ticket barriers of the different operators. There is also considerable building and renovation work going on, which is likely to cause extra disruption for years to come. For passengers travelling long distances, who are more likely to have more luggage, having to change trains in Edinburgh would be extremely inconvenient and add to journey times.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Lazarowicz]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I understand that the exact route of High Speed 2 is being debated, as are issues such as the right route and speed for a line, at what speed trains could run and whether changes could be made to reflect the environment. I accept all those concerns—I am not saying that one should not—but ultimately, it is not just a question of taking 20 minutes off the time to reach Glasgow and Edinburgh. In any configuration, we are talking about major time savings. By definition, those time savings increase the longer the distance travelled, which is why it is so important to the business case of the whole line that Scotland should be included at an early stage in the planning.

Support for Scotland’s inclusion in the high-speed rail link comes from business leaders throughout the UK. The London chamber of commerce and industry says that

“for HS2 to improve the country’s connectivity and infrastructure capacity, it must reach the whole of the UK. Only then will the expected business and transport benefits be enjoyed by the entire country… Consequently, the line should also be planned and thought of in its totality, rather than as independent and isolated sections.”

I absolutely agree.

The Greater Manchester chamber of commerce says:

“Glasgow and Greater Manchester are two of the UK’s largest economies and the third and fourth biggest population centres in the country. Strong economic development within these cities will be essential for countering the economic dominance of London and providing the driver for growth within their respective regions. As such, high-quality links between these centres is essential for developing trade, tourism and expanding the knowledge, opportunities and labour catchment areas for these conurbations… Significantly, though, the benefits of high-speed rail are greater over longer distances, and therefore the time savings between Manchester and Glasgow would be significant enough to help deliver a shift in mode of travel and generate passenger demand on the new rail network.”

That is why I, along with opinion across the political and social spectrums in Scotland and beyond, am extremely concerned by the possibility that serious planning for high-speed rail to Scotland will not even start for many years. If planning for high-speed rail to Scotland is left until later, it could be the 2040s at the earliest before high-speed rail reaches Scotland. Such a long delay after the routes reach the midlands and the north of England would be extremely damaging to the economic interests of Scotland and those parts of the north of England not linked to the route.

To secure the funding to allow high-speed rail to reach Scotland requires choices, and I accept that they may be choices about routes, speeds or the location of sections of routes. Putting together the funding package is still many years off, but I want to emphasise that we do not want to be in a situation where not even the planning has been started. We must ensure that we plan now for Scotland to be part of that high-speed line. Detailed planning of HS2 must be done at this stage, as the report from Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government calls for, and I fully endorse it.

Let me emphasise again that it is in no one’s interest for Scotland to be left at the end of a high-speed line. The Scottish Government have said that they will pay for the Scottish section of such a line. Although their commitment looks a little shaky under closer analysis, I am sure that a future Scottish Government of any political shade would recognise the value contributing to a project of such importance for Scotland. I understand that Scottish Ministers hoped to meet the Minister or her colleagues to discuss the issue. Was any progress made in those discussions? Is there potential for an agreement with the Scottish Government?

I could say much more, and although there is time to do so, it is right to allow the Minister and the Front-Bench spokesman plenty of time to respond to the concerns that I have raised. There are certainly many other rail policy issues at UK level that concern Scotland, including a number of the implications of the McNulty report and some of the proposals in the Transport Scotland report on transferring some of the responsibilities that Network Rail supervises at a British level to a devolved level. They are significant matters, but they are perhaps too technical and lengthy and would require me to divert to another subject at great length.

Maintaining the sleeper and cross-border services and planning for future and better connectivity are important and concern all Scotland. I hope that the Minister and the Front-Bench spokesman will say something that recognises the importance of those issues, assures us of a way forward and, as I have indicated, sends a clear message from the House to Transport Scotland that some of its proposals would be extremely damaging to transport interests throughout Scotland.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Before I call the Front-Bench speakers, may I say, after that excellent start, that this is a slow debate? We are taking the scenic route with plenty of time to admire the view. The Opposition spokesman need not trouble himself to rush to the end of his remarks. I call John Woodcock.

National Referendum on the European Union

Debate between Philip Hollobone and Mark Lazarowicz

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The big mistake that the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr David) has made is to believe that Euroscepticism is a right-wing phenomenon. I have news for him: Euroscepticism is a growing movement, with people of all persuasions—right, left and middle—getting increasingly fed up with how this country is treated by the European Union. The proof of that is some of the petitions that came to the Backbench Business Committee and that stimulated today’s debate. He is going down a blind alley if he thinks that this is just a right-wing cause.

I have the privilege to represent the residents of the borough of Kettering.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

The hon. Gentleman says that people are concerned about how they are being treated by the European Union, and that may or may not be so. Does he accept, however, that the European Union is not some distant organisation over which we have no say? We are a powerful member state in the European Union, and we send MEPs, Cabinet Ministers and other Ministers there on our behalf. If we are not getting what we ought to out of the European Union, is not that due as much to how we are represented in Brussels as to anything else?