Spring Budget: Wales

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Prynhawn da. I call Ruth Jones.

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Spring Budget and Wales.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Mr Hollobone, and thank you for your introductory remarks in Welsh. I am sad to say that I will not be able to continue in that vein, but it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, and I do so with the voices, views and concerns of the people of Newport West and the whole of Wales at the forefront of my mind.

This afternoon is an important opportunity for colleagues representing Wales to speak up and speak out about the failing economic policies of this Government. The recent Budget could and should have been a unique opportunity to unlock Britain’s promise and all the potential that we see in and around our communities. Instead, it was more decline and decay. It is clear to everyone—and, I suspect, to the Minister too—that this Government have decided to continue papering over the cracks after 13 years of Conservative economic failure, rather than giving us the change we need. Indeed, as I have said in the House, that papering over the cracks was exemplified by yet another handout for the richest 1%. There was no regard for the livelihoods and wellbeing of my constituents in Newport West, or the livelihoods of people across Wales, whether they call home Ceredigion or Conwy, Bangor or Bridgend. Wales is a nation of people who work hard, pay their taxes and simply need real change and real investment in their communities.

I noted from a report that the UK Treasury has recently taken back more than £155 million from the Welsh Government. The reason the Treasury gave for this smash and grab was that the Welsh Government had not spent it fast enough, which is an arbitrary change of tune from previous years. This callous approach is both unacceptable and unwise, and I echo the Welsh Government Finance Minister, Rebecca Evans MS, in calling on Westminster to give Wales our money back.

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[Ruth Jones]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, because steel is integral to the industry and heart of Wales. In my constituency, in the last week we have had issues with a steel company, which I will be talking to my hon. Friend about shortly. We all want steel to thrive and grow in Wales.

Only with strong, inclusive growth, including in the steel industry, will Wales get the good jobs and productivity gains for which our people are crying out. It is not rocket science; in fact, it is pretty simple. Despite all the claims from the Chancellor, the Office for Budget Responsibility downgraded the UK’s long-term growth forecast; there are downgrades in each of the last three years of the forecast period. We will be the only country that will see negative growth. No other G20 economy, apart from Russia, is forecast to shrink this year. The OECD has confirmed that the UK will be the weakest economy in the G7 this year. What a ringing endorsement of 13 years of Tory Government! The blame for that lies squarely with the Tories, their Prime Ministers, and the current Chancellor—and the one before, obviously. They are the party of economic mismanagement.

It is worth noting that the average French family is now a 10th richer than their British counterparts, while the average German family is a fifth richer. After 13 years of Tory Government, and a failed spring Budget, our people are paying more, earning less and bearing the overwhelming brunt of this Conservative cost of living crisis. This Government have let down the people of Newport West, and of Wales. The spring Budget was a wasted opportunity for Wales; it delivered a tax cut for the richest and nothing for the many. It continued a Conservative agenda of delay and decline. As my constituent Dawn Jones wrote in her heart-rending correspondence:

“This should not be allowed to happen in this day and age, these conditions are not acceptable.”

The best way—the only way—to change course, to deliver for our people and to move forward is with a UK Labour Government, and the sooner the better.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Diolch yn fawr. The debate can last until 4 o’clock. I am obliged to call the Front-Bench spokesmen just after half-past 3, but until then we are in Back-Bench time, and I am determined that everybody will get in. There is no need for a time limit if everybody is sensible.

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[Virginia Crosbie]

That is simply not the case. I will highlight the way that north Wales has been treated by Labour. In the past six months, it has been deprived of one of the two bridges connecting it to the mainland. It has seen abject failures in the devolved health service, and suffered over 700 job losses with the closure of 2 Sisters in Llangefni. While Labour MPs sit there and complain about our Budget, let us look at the actions their own Welsh Government, in co-operation with Plaid, have taken to support my already deprived community through these challenges. They have refused to compensate the businesses that suffered significant losses as a result of the closure of the Menai suspension bridge—a closure that, I hasten to add, resulted from failures in its maintenance programme. They stalled on funding a much-needed GP co-location in Holyhead, which would have helped people who have struggled for years with a health board that is in and out of special measures. With their £155 million underspend, they could have stumped up the funding for some of those 700 people who lost their job at 2 Sisters in Llangefni to travel to another plant and continue working for a few months. They chose not to.

The only reason why Labour MPs are unhappy is because they cannot face the fact that the UK Government are delivering on their promises to the Welsh people in a way that Labour has abjectly failed to. I commend the Budget and the difference it will make to people across Wales, particularly in my constituency of Ynys Môn. Diolch, Mr Llefarydd.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

I call Beth Winter.

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[Beth Winter]

I am just coming on to the university sector, where I worked for 10 years as a researcher and a trade union representative. Indeed, universities in Wales have been at the forefront of green growth and research in Wales and internationally, but with EU structural funding coming to an end, they face the loss of more than 1,000 skilled jobs, as the right hon. Lady said.

Swansea University, where I worked for many years, has been delivering on 50 projects awarded total grants of £150 million from EU structural funds. We have only to look at some of those projects—ASTUTE 2020 and SPECIFIC 2—to get a sense of that cutting-edge research. I was involved in lots of those projects; outstanding work is being undertaken. Universities have written to the Welsh Affairs Committee to say that there is little emphasis on research and innovation within the shared prosperity fund, and wider reforms of the funds are needed.

However, there was absolutely nothing in the Budget to deal with the failings of so-called levelling up and the shared prosperity fund. As the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) said, I am interested to hear the Minister’s response on how the Government will address the shortfall, with all those jobs at risk from the end of this month, as I understand it. Over 1,000 jobs could be lost in Wales.

Moving on to the legacy of the coal mines, the UK Government continue to benefit unduly from their share of the national mineworkers’ pension scheme. They should be paying that money to former mineworkers and their families, many of whom live in Cynon Valley. It is a continued failure of this Government that they have not funded the £600 million legacy costs of making the coal tips safe in Wales. As I said, we created the wealth in the south Wales valley. People sacrificed their lives in many instances. We deserve our fair share of that wealth back.

The UK Government’s record on housing is one of failure. The Bevan Foundation, which has been cited, has undertaken comprehensive research. Evidence shows that there is a shortage of properties to rent, and the local housing allowance rates set by the Tories do not cover real-world market rents. The data found that 75% of Welsh local authorities did not have a single property available at LHA rates, and just 1.2% of rental market properties advertised across Wales were available at LHA rates. The Bevan Foundation has called for rates to be uplifted, and for the collection of better, more comprehensive data from the private rental sector, yet the Budget again said nothing. I want to hear the Minister’s response to the issues with the LHA in Wales, which is a reserved matter.

On transport, the UK Government have continued the lie of designating not only HS2, but now Northern Powerhouse Rail as England and Wales projects, which should result in a total of £6 billion for the Welsh economy.

The Budget shows how urgently we need a change of Government in the UK. We need a completely different economic approach to deliver a new funding settlement for public services, and fully funded, inflation-proof pay rises for workers. We need the wealthiest in society finally to pay their fair share of tax. While the Tories will not do it, Wales requires fair, needs-based funding to be able to do what we want to do, which is to address the levels of inequality that are completely unacceptable and completely avoidable. The UK Government need to stop riding roughshod over the devolution settlement. The Budget showed why we need a UK Labour Government, who will work hand in hand with the Welsh Government to deliver and level up, lifting incomes and living standards and building an economy for future generations. Diolch yn fawr.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

I call Jonathan Edwards.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

I agree with my right hon. and learned Friend. It is incumbent on all of us in this Chamber to support the decisions of the court, as I am sure all of us do.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

6. Whether he has had recent discussions with Cabinet colleagues on the export of Welsh lamb to the United States.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Dr James Davies)]

I was delighted to hear that the first shipment of British lamb left Wales for the USA last month. The USA lamb market is estimated to be worth £37 million over the next five years, with over 300 million consumers who can now access and enjoy our world-renowned Welsh lamb.

[Mr Hollobone]

It is great that Welsh lamb has now been exported to the United States for the first time in 20 years. The National Farmers Union has set out a detailed strategy outlining its ambition to grow the UK’s food, drink and agricultural exports by 30% by 2030. Will the Minister work with the NFU to realise this laudable ambition to drive the total value of British agrifoods exports to more than £30 billion by that date?

[Dr Davies]

I certainly will. I look forward to attending the royal Welsh winter fair next week, when I will be meeting the NFU. Wales has a major role in achieving increased exports and, when it comes to lamb, trade deals with the Gulf Co-operation Council, among others, could be key.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con)]

6. What discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on providing support with the cost of living for people in Wales.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

8. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the cost of living support for households in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)]

My ministerial colleagues and I fully accept that there is a cost of living challenge, but this country has faced some exceptional challenges over the past few years, including a global pandemic and a European land war. We have responded vigorously by providing £37 billion to help households across the UK through these challenges.

[David T. C. Davies]

I agree completely with my right hon. Friend. Households across the whole United Kingdom will be receiving a cost of living support payment worth £650 this month. By contrast the Welsh Labour Government want to spend £100 million to increase the number of Welsh Senedd Members. Some people believe in levelling up, but I am afraid that Opposition Members believe in leaving people behind and spending more money on further politicians.

[Mr Hollobone]

Across the UK, 8 million low-income households will get £1,200 in financial support to help with rising electricity and gas bills. Would not the £100 million being spent by the Welsh Government on extra politicians in Cardiff be better directed at helping those families?

[David T. C. Davies]

I fully agree with my hon. Friend. Not only will households receive an extra £1,200, but next week, 8 million households on means-tested benefits will get an extra £326 in their bank accounts; in September, 6 million people on disability benefits will receive a £150 payment; and in October, £400 will come off households’ energy bills. There is much more to follow, because the Government believe in levelling up, not in spending £100 million on extra Senedd Members.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2021 Commons Chamber

[Claire Coutinho (East Surrey) (Con)]

What discussions he has had with the Minister for Vaccine Deployment on the delivery of covid-19 vaccines to Wales.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

What discussions he has had with the (a) Minister for Vaccine Deployment, (b) Secretary of State for Defence and (c) Welsh Government on the delivery of covid-19 vaccines to Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart)]

I have regular discussions with the Minister for Vaccine Deployment, the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), as well as Defence Ministers and the First Minister of Wales, on the delivery of covid-19 vaccines. Rapid vaccine roll-out is key to us getting back to normality.

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[Simon Hart]

I am delighted to join my hon. Friend in that tribute. The Prime Minister and I visited Wockhardt in Wrexham a few weeks ago to see the fantastic work that it is doing. Hers, like so many stories, is a story of a successful Union. As we all know, the vaccine roll-out is not a competition between Governments; it is a competition between Government and covid, and the Union is central to that.

[Mr Hollobone]

The logistical expertise of Her Majesty’s armed forces is second to none. What role are defence personnel playing in the vaccine roll-out in Wales?

[Simon Hart]

The short answer is: a pivotal role. It has been a joy to behold the unbelievable enthusiasm, dedication and professionalism in Wales and across the rest of the UK from servicemen and women. We are regularly receiving requests from the Welsh Government for additional support, and we turn that support around in Cardiff just as soon as we can.

Shared Prosperity Fund: Wales

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

The debate may last until 5.30 pm. I am obliged to call Her Majesty’s Opposition spokesman at no later than 5.12 pm, which gives us about 20 minutes of Back-Bench time. Five members are standing, so that means you each have four minutes. I first call David T.C. Davies.

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[Wayne David]

On a point of order, Mr Hollobone. We have a whole list of incredible accusations here, which have no relevance whatever to the debate. That cannot be in order.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

I would regard nothing that Mr Davies has said thus far as out of order, but I note Mr David’s objections and I am listening closely to all contributions made by all Members. I draw Mr Davies’s attention to the clock. He has just over a minute left.

[David T. C. Davies]

None of these is an accusation. They are all in the Auditor General’s report, which only came about as a result of the information that I gave them, because nobody in the Welsh Assembly—neither Members nor Government—was particularly interested in the fact that millions of pounds of their money was being spent. The reason I sent the information off was that the directors of that company came into my office and told me that their project was being backed by BMW and General Electric. It was not, because I checked with them afterwards. Then the directors sent their lawyer, Jonathan Coad, to try to take legal action against me, Martin Shipton and Trinity Newspapers, for falsely alleging General Electric and BMW’s involvement, but they did not realise that my tape recorder had accidentally been left on at the time and I had the whole thing on tape.

I say to hon. Members that the Welsh Assembly Government have failed over and over again. At least one civil servant’s name comes up every single time, many of the people involved in the decisions are all known to each other, and a lot of them have links back to the Labour party. I have touched on only three or four projects, but we all know that there are various others—Kukd was another one, as well as Kancoat and Blurrt. One after another, projects have received large amounts of funding, often running into millions, from the Welsh Government, and no proper checks and balances have been pursued.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Order. I call Mr Ben Lake.

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[Ben Lake]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Gentleman. If the Barnett formula were applied to the shared prosperity fund, that would be nothing short of a disaster for our communities. We need to make sure that whatever the methodology, it is focused on the need of communities, rather than on simple population share.

I must labour the point: if the fund is to be used for other responsibilities, it cannot be reduced to a convenient tool for hard-pressed Departments to realise budget efficiencies via consolidation. The funding will be a lifeline for our communities, so it must provide Wales with no less, in real terms, than the total allocated by the EU and UK funding streams it replaces.

Furthermore, I believe the UK shared prosperity fund must operate on multi-annual financial allocations of at least seven years. Inconvenient though that may be for the Treasury’s spending review cycles, it would allow recipient organisations and groups the time for proper planning and implementation of larger scale and transformative projects—the types of project needed seriously to ratchet up jobs, wages and living standards in constituencies such as Ceredigion. We cannot settle for mere tinkering around the edges. What is required is a programme that allows for substantial and prolonged investment, so that our areas are no longer less developed and eligible for such assistance.

As the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) mentioned, in terms of the shared prosperity fund’s administration, important aspects of economic development are devolved, so the Welsh portion of the new fund should be devolved to the Welsh Government, potentially, as the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) just mentioned, as an additional, separate block grant from the Treasury, so that we may bypass the Barnett formula.

Time is against me, so I will conclude with a question to the Minister, who I welcome to his place in the Welsh Office. Will he guarantee that the UK shared prosperity fund will be, in real terms, at least equivalent to the funds that it is replacing, and that its budget will be proportionally increased if other EU—or, for that matter, UK—competencies are to be blended into the fund?

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Order. I call Jo Stevens.

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[Albert Owen]

Absolutely. That is the next point that I want to move on to. I am a strong supporter of devolution—I have fought for it in referendums, and I have seen its enhancement—but devolution is no good just going from Whitehall down the M4 to Cardiff Bay. It needs to go throughout the areas of Wales, including to north-west Wales and north Wales generally. Real devolution is about empowering people in their local communities. My hon. Friend is right: we have a structure in the north Wales growth bid. We have a board set up, with business and local authority representatives, and they have the ability to be a mechanism for distribution of the new growth fund in the future. I hope that the Minister will take that on board. I know that he is visiting my constituency in north Wales shortly, and he will hear about that.

I want to quote the remarks referred to by the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake), in which the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government stated:

“The UK Shared Prosperity Fund will tackle inequalities within communities by raising productivity, especially in parts of the UK whose economies are furthest behind…It will have simplified administrative arrangements aimed at targeting funding effectively; and…It will operate across the UK. The UK Government says it will respect the devolution settlements in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and will engage the devolved administrations”.

I want those words to be put into action. I want the new Minister to take that on board and to work with us, as Welsh Members, to ensure that areas such as mine continue to grow and will benefit from the shared prosperity fund. I do not want to see this Government pull the rug from under the feet of the poor communities, education communities and farming communities that have benefited since 2000. Europe based its European structural funds on need, and that is what we need: to establish the needs of areas throughout the UK, including periphery areas such as the one that I represent, to show that we will go forward, that we do share prosperity and that we share it at a pace equal to that in the south-east of England. At the end of the day, we want a more equal society, economically and socially.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

We now come to the Front-Bench speeches, and the guidelines are five minutes for Her Majesty’s Opposition, 10 minutes for the Minister and the remaining time Mr Lucas may use to sum up the debate.

Rural Economy of Wales

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Order. The debate is due to finish at 5.30 pm, which means that, under the rules of the House, I need to call the first of the Front-Bench spokesmen at seven minutes past 5. There are guideline limits of five minutes for the Scottish National party, five minutes for Her Majesty’s Opposition and 10 minutes for the Minister, with three minutes for Mr Lake to sum up at the end. Three Members are seeking to catch my eye, which means that there will be a time limit of eight minutes for each of them.

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[Albert Owen]

Yes, it is. The Government talk, as many Governments do, about decentralisation and devolution of services, but they act in the opposite way, pulling out services from rural areas. Those rural areas have very competent people, with the skill sets to do those jobs for many years. The services are being moved just to save the Government money, and in the long run communities are getting left behind.

My final point has nothing to do with the Government, although the Government need to take some responsibility. We need to get proper banking policy in this country. When high street banks close in rural areas and in small and larger towns, it rips the heart out of those communities. Local government, the Welsh Government and the UK taxpayer are paying for those communities, yet banks just walk away. We know what banks have done to our global economy; we see the recession across the world and in this country. Those banks have responsibilities, but we need to plug those gaps, because often buildings are left empty, jobs are lost and the local high street suffers.

Rural Wales needs a strong voice and, with Welsh MPs across the parties, we have one. We also need a Government here in the UK that are listening and putting devolution into practice, with real delivery of jobs and services in our rural communities, so that rural and urban Wales can compete on a level playing field with the rest of the United Kingdom. I thank the hon. Member for Ceredigion for giving me the opportunity to say that, because I want to stand up in future and say how much better things are in Wales because rural and urban areas have worked together to create the best place to live, work and visit in the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

We now come to the first of the Opposition Front-Bench speeches. The guideline limit for both the Scottish National party and the Labour party Front Benchers is five minutes.

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[Chris Ruane]

The Minister should know that history. It is a huge amount of money for the whole of Wales—€320 million per year in direct subsidies from the common agricultural policy, with a further €355 million to support rural development.

I ask the Minister, as I have asked him before, to make sure that we have extra funding beyond 2020. Our urban and rural communities have been supported by extra funds from Europe over the past 17 years. We want to be treated as well by Westminster as we have been by Brussels. We have had a big dollop of jam—a big dollop of funding—for Wales. We do not want it taken away and for the jam to be spread thinly across the whole of the UK. We need that funding and the Minister must do his job and make sure that we get it.

On productivity and broadband, thanks to the efforts of the Welsh Labour Government, unemployment in rural Wales in 2016 decreased roughly in line with the Welsh average of 4% and productivity continues to increase. However, productivity in rural communities still lags behind the Welsh average. The Welsh Government recognise that and are helping boost productivity with the “Superfast Cymru” project, rolling out superfast broadband across the country. In an increasingly digital economy, the effects of high-speed internet are really needed in our rural communities. Sadly, Wales’s biggest export has been our young people. There has been a brain drain out of Wales for decades. Superfast broadband offers a chance to stop and reverse that. People want to live in rural communities, especially when they are bringing up families. To do that, they need access to superfast broadband to make sure that they can conduct their digital businesses from areas such as rural Wales.

I just want to touch on the north Wales and the mid-Wales growth funds. I ask the Minister to ensure that the funding allocated to those projects is as great as the funding allocated to city deals in England and Wales.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

If the Minister concludes his remarks no later than 5.27 pm, that will allow Mr Lake time to sum up the debate.

Post Offices in Wales

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mr Philip Hollobone in the Chair]

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Prynhawn da. Good afternoon. On the hottest September day for almost 100 years, I ask the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) to move the motion.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the plans in the draft Wales Bill for the granting of income tax-varying powers for the Welsh Government. We want Wales to be a low-tax economy. Of course, mechanisms will need to be introduced to protect Welsh interests. The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that I met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury earlier this week to discuss early proposals for such mechanisms, and we are happy to engage in further such discussions.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Which sectors of the Welsh economy offer the most exciting prospects for growth to help to rebalance the economy, and what steps is my right hon. Friend taking to encourage them?

[Alun Cairns]

As my hon. Friend will know, the Budget focused on the city deal for Cardiff, which is the largest city deal in the United Kingdom, with £1.2 billion covering 10 local authority areas. However, we also have ambitions for the Swansea bay city deal and the north Wales growth deal. We need to remember that this involves UK taxpayers’ money in addition to the Barnett block, which is something that we never saw when Labour was in power.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

What happened to the level of unemployment in Wales over the lifetime of the last Parliament, and what impact does the Secretary of State think the Budget will have on employment over the lifetime of this Parliament?

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend asks a really good question. What we have seen over the past five years, despite the scaremongering and Labour’s talking down of the Welsh economy, is unemployment continuing to fall. Today’s figures demonstrate once again that record numbers of people in Wales are going back to work—there is no reason to think that that will not continue—and we will achieve our long-term ambition of full employment.

Employment in Wales

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Bore da! This important debate, with Wales’s finest in attendance, is ably led by Chris Ruane.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Thank you for that great introduction, Mr Hollobone. Bore da! Sut wyt ti y bore ’ma?

I will speak primarily about my constituency and north Wales, but I am sure that there will be interventions and speeches by Members from elsewhere in Wales—although not from any Government Members, because no Conservative or Liberal Democrat Back Benchers are present—[Interruption.] No, here they come. Better late than never.

I will focus on five areas: the quality of jobs in the UK and Wales; the impact of cuts on jobs and employment in Wales—not only the current cuts, but the proposed future ones highlighted by the Chancellor in his autumn statement; the rebalancing of a local economy highly dependent on the public sector; the possible impact if we pulled out of the European Union on job prospects in north Wales especially; and the impact of capital projects on jobs.

On the face of it, employment in north Wales seems healthy, but scratch below the surface and we see a different picture. Wages in the UK have decreased by £1,600 per annum over the past five years. There has been a shift from secure, long-term employment to short-term, zero-hours, part-time working.

Two years ago, the national press highlighted Denbighshire as having the highest level of zero-hours contracts in the UK, although the local authority disputed the figures. Nevertheless, the whole of the UK has suffered from the steep rise in the use of zero-hours contracts. The public sector has had a pay freeze at only 1%, which in real terms amounts to a cut, while the impact on ordinary workers of the casualised employment promoted by the Government is stark. Families cannot plan for their summer holidays, as they might usually do in January, because people do not know whether they will still be in employment in six months’ time.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Order. We will hear from Mr Ruane at the end of the debate, because it is a Back-Bench debate, and he will have between three and five minutes to sum up. I will call the Front Benchers no later than 10.35 am, but it might be before that. Before that, the order of speakers will be Government, Opposition, Government, Opposition.

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[Chris Evans]

There we go again. I have a lot of time for the hon. Gentleman, but I have just said that we need to change the terms of the debate. The debate is once again about the various approaches, but we are missing the wider picture. Every time that we talk about welfare reform, it becomes about hitting various groups in society. The major problem is not benefit scroungers, but the simple fact that thanks to globalisation—a good thing that is creating more opportunities than ever before for people in Wales, young and old—the labour market has changed beyond all recognition. As we have heard, the recent growth in jobs has been at either the very top or the very bottom. That means low pay at the bottom and high pay at the top, but those in the middle are finding themselves forced out due to what we could call a hollowing out of the labour market. When those people lose their jobs, they encounter tremendous barriers to getting back into work, which forces many families into poverty, and that process will only quicken as the years go on.

We must be honest about the fact that despite attempt after attempt, welfare reform, in all its guises, has failed. Long-term unemployment remains stubbornly high and there are still long-term benefit claimants. At the same time, we carry on debating the belief that there are welfare scroungers abusing the system, but I believe that we need to change the terms of the debate. Policy Exchange recently came up with a programme with three planks that merits further consideration. We need to build self-sufficiency in the welfare system. In the UK as a whole, 60% of households receive more in benefits than they pay in tax, so they are net recipients of state support. That is, in part, the result of the tax credits introduced under the previous Labour Government which, in an attempt to tackle low pay and to eradicate relative income poverty for children, began to support families earning as much as £50,000 a year. Poverty came down, but the problems remain.

There is still a general presumption in the welfare system that the solution to low pay and poverty is to redistribute income through cash benefits. I emphasise that doing so simply subsidises low pay, leads to low wages for recipients and does nothing to encourage progression and self-sufficiency. Future reforms must be built around the principle that income should come from work, not benefits, but that will require reforms to the scope of benefits while ensuring that family earnings increase along with the living wage. There needs to be more support for those who seek to increase their income, but that is sadly lacking from this Government.

We need to build a system on the principle of “something for something”. Although it is important to build a system that encourages self-sufficiency, we must recognise that some families will fall on hard times. Companies will close; that is the way of life and the way of the economy, no matter who is in government. In such times, the welfare system should support people and recognise the contributions that they have already made. The current welfare system does not reflect such contributions. Strengthening the contributory principle through a system of welfare accounts that sit on top of universal credit, which can be drawn down in periods of need, should be a key plank of a “something for something” system that all parts of society believe to be fair.

Employment support is the most controversial part of the system—it is the biggest bugbear in my constituency. The state must get better at helping people to move back to work through a modern system of employment support, and that must begin with an acceptance that Jobcentre Plus has not been effective for some years. Although 75% of jobseeker’s allowance claimants move off benefits within six months, only about half of them are still in work eight months later, while a third are claiming benefits again. The goal should be to support claimants into substantial long-term employment and that should be delivered by providing targeted support for jobseekers not after six months, but from day one of their employment claim.

We should also look at examples such as that in Australia with regard to building and improving the Work programme. That is particularly relevant for groups furthest away from the labour market that currently face being parked without support and still face a real risk of benefit sanctions. Those groups need a new support system that ensures that they have help for the very real difficulties that they face, and that view was backed up by a National Audit Office report on the Work programme in July 2014, which stated:

“The Programme has…not improved performance for harder-to-help groups compared to previous schemes. The Department designed the Programme to help participants whose barriers to employment mean that it is more difficult for them to move into employment. However performance has been similar to previous initiatives and falls well short of the Department’s and bidders’ expectations. Prime contractors have reduced what they plan to spend on the hardest-to-help, with support for these participants lower than for those with better employment prospects.”

We need reforms that build on the three principles that I mentioned to make the welfare state more effective, efficient and fair. That would rebuild support for the welfare state around the principles upon which it was founded by Beveridge all those years ago and ensure that all families receive the support they need to increase their earnings and reduce their reliance on the state. At the same time, it would ensure that those in need get the support they require. As we face the general election, those three principles should be the terms of the new debate on welfare reform.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

If the Front-Bench spokesmen take 12 minutes each, we should have enough time for Mr Ruane to speak at the end of the debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Ruane]

I am grateful, Mr Hollobone, for the opportunity to speak again.

I will respond to a few points that Conservative Members made. Virtually every Conservative speaker today spoke only about cuts, but the balanced approach to rebalancing the economy means talking about cuts and growth. From 2008, all the indicators up to 2010 were going in a positive direction; when this Government got in, they all went in a negative direction. The cuts are ideological, because the Conservatives believe in cuts. They want a small state; they do not recognise the value of the public sector.

The hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) again used divisive language about public sector pensions and private sector pensions, saying that private sector pensions were minimal. Who was it that promoted and encouraged the mis-selling of pensions to the private sector? It was the Conservative Government of the ’80s and ’90s. Why not raise the private sector pensions up to the level of public sector pensions? Why does the law of the lowest common denominator have to apply?

The Minister mentioned the number of people in Wales who have never worked. We had jobs—quality jobs—in Wales, in the steelworks and the mines, but what happened? Those workers were laid off and put on the dole. Then, when the dole queues started to rise, the Conservative Government in the 1980s and 1990s got worried. They altered the figures for calculating statistics 30 times, and they encouraged those proud miners to get off the dole and go on to incapacity benefit, in order to park up those workers—and, indeed, whole communities —for decades to come. After someone spends six months on the dole or incapacity benefit, something changes inside them; they lose their confidence. That is what happened in those communities. No help was put in place for those proud miners; they were just cut adrift, as political punishment for what they had done.

The Minister talks about the success of job creation in Wales under his Government. He mentioned Jobs Growth Wales briefly towards the end of his speech, but let me remind him that Jobs Growth Wales is responsible for an extra 400 young people in my constituency being employed. Also, there is European funding in my constituency, which I secured for my county of Denbighshire and the county of Conwy in 2000. We have had a quarter of a billion pounds worth of investment in my constituency, and the same in Conwy as well, as a result of that European funding. But what will happen to the remainder of that funding if the Government have their way and pull out of the EU? These are big issues for the electorate to face in the months to come and on 7 May, and I hope that they look carefully at our record and that of this Conservative Government. If they do, they will realise which box to put their x in.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

I thank all Members who took part in this important debate on Wales. If they are not staying for the next important debate, I ask them to leave Westminster Hall quickly and quietly, because it is time to get all aboard for a train services debate.