Massereene Barracks Shooting 2009

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd September 2014 Westminster Hall

[Dr Murrison]

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I have only a few minutes to answer the right hon. Gentleman’s points, so I would like to crack on.

It must be understood that those who continue to favour violence and terrorism in Northern Ireland are few in number. Those individuals are acting in defiance of the clear will of the people of Ireland, both north and south, and holding democracy, decency and the rule of law in contempt.

Turning to the important issue of barracks security, many of the points that the right hon. Gentleman raised in his speech are the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive under the devolved settlement. It would not be appropriate for me to comment on areas for which I do not have direct responsibility. However, responsibility for the armed forces is not devolved, so I will start by saying that the Government take the safety of military personnel very seriously indeed. Security measures for members of the armed forces are made and set in accordance with a specific threat level relating to them, which is kept under regular review.

In Northern Ireland, armed guarding and security is undertaken by the Northern Ireland Security Guard Service, which consists of Ministry of Defence employees specifically trained for the job. That is similar to guarding provision in the rest of the UK, and it is not accurate to say that the use of civilian MOD employees results in an inferior service to what would be provided by soldiers.

Security measures at Massereene barracks on the night of the incident were set and implemented in accordance with the threat level pertaining to the Army at that time. At the time of the murders of Sapper Azimkar and Sapper Quinsey, those guarding the barracks carried pistols. I will return to that point in a minute. Security guidance for personnel visiting Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland has been reviewed since the incident; there has also been a security review at all establishments in Northern Ireland, as the right hon. Gentleman would expect. It has led to the introduction of a number of measures in order to match the increased sector-specific threat assessment following the attack, including the introduction of long-barrelled weapons for the NISGS. Where required, security infrastructure improvements have also been made to barracks in Northern Ireland.

Although the Army originally intended to hold a service inquiry to examine events leading up to the incident, it was quite properly put on hold pending criminal investigations, following which it was decided that as a result of the enhanced security measures that had been put in place, no further lessons of consequence could be learned. However, in accordance with normal practice, a learning account exercise was undertaken. It recommended a number of further security measures, such as arming the NISGS with rifles.

An assurance inspection was carried out in June 2012 at Massereene, which was deemed satisfactory. The barracks were then sold in 2013 to Randox Laboratories Ltd, which I believe is relevant in this case. In 2013, the director of personnel services for the Army judged that as a result of the enhanced security measures, the closure of the barracks, the two PSNI investigations and the passage of time, a service inquiry, whose purpose would be to learn lessons and not to apportion blame, would not add materially, a view endorsed by the Adjutant-General and noted by the then Minister of State for the Armed Forces. I understand that the families have been invited to meet to discuss the reasons behind the Army’s decision. I feel that the families may find it useful to have that meeting, and the offer remains open to them.

The right hon. Gentleman referred to how the investigation of the Massereene shootings was carried out. I emphasise that I cannot comment authoritatively on matters devolved to the Northern Ireland Executive. Justice is devolved, and with it the PSNI and Forensic Science Northern Ireland. However, I know that the PSNI continues to investigate the murders of both men at Massereene barracks, and the cases are still open. Both the PSNI and this Government share the families’ frustration that no one has yet been brought to book for that heinous attack. It is my sincere hope and expectation that justice will ultimately be brought to bear in this case.

I cannot comment on the specific concerns raised in connection with the investigation and how it was conducted or discuss specific concerns about forensics, as it could affect any future investigation. However, it is my understanding that the senior investigating officer tasked to the case has met with Patrick Azimkar’s parents to discuss their concerns in detail. Furthermore, as a result of the judgment by Justice Deeny in the second trial, both the PSNI and Forensic Science NI conducted a review to examine the issues raised. I am assured that all the recommendations contained in the reviews have been implemented.

I am also aware of the concerns raised by the Azimkar family about the trials, re-trial and acquittal in the case, but I suspect that the right hon. Gentleman, as a lawyer, will agree with the proposition that judicial independence is fundamental to criminal justice. Judges must be free to act without pressure, threat or interference. In light of that, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on either the judicial decision or the process, and “Erskine May” specifically discourages me from doing so, but I too remain disappointed and dismayed that no one has yet been made accountable for those appalling crimes. I want convictions, and very few in Northern Ireland want terrorists to get away with their barbarity. It is cause for regret that although Northern Ireland has moved on, its public face is still marred by its association with violence.

I will turn briefly to the use of non-jury trials in Northern Ireland, an important point raised by the right hon. Gentleman in his speech. As he knows, there is now no system of Diplock courts in Northern Ireland, as they were abolished in 2007. What we have in Northern Ireland is a system that allows for non-jury trials in specific circumstances where it is deemed necessary to secure a fair trial. The decision is not taken lightly, and it is made by the Director of Public Prosecutions in Northern Ireland based on the facts of the case in question. That was the case with the trial of those accused in relation to the Massereene shootings.

Although there is rightly a general presumption in favour of a jury trial, the non-jury system is generally recognised as removing the risk of perverse verdicts by reason of intimidation or bias. Furthermore, non-jury trials have the advantage of a written judgment explaining the reasons for conviction or acquittal and are an effective way of securing a fair trial for all parties and mitigating the risk of intimidation or subversion of the judicial process. However, the current non-jury trial provisions are due to expire in July 2015, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will review the current provisions in the coming months.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the support being provided to the families—

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. I thank all Members who have attended this important debate.

Hallett Review

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Thursday 17th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman puts the case for an attempt to resolve the issues of the past with great clarity. I fully agree that the legacy of Northern Ireland’s past is a recurrent issue that has the capacity to poison the political debate and to create a block to genuine reconciliation. I therefore strongly agree that, for the sake of peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland, it is essential that we find an agreed way forward and come to terms with the legacy of the past. I can give him the same assurance that he received from the Prime Minister in his meeting with him yesterday—namely, that this Government are fully committed to doing that and that we will play our part in any agreement between the Northern Ireland parties. We will continue to do everything we can to facilitate an agreement between those parties on these important matters.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Presumably Lady Justice Hallett’s report will be discussed at tomorrow’s Cabinet. This whole on-the-run episode is deeply troubling, but it is also an extraordinary and exceptional set of circumstances. Given the horrific nature of the Hyde park bombing, and the subsequent publication of the report, the question my constituents will want me to ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is this: in the light of the report, is there now no chance at all that the stay on the prosecution of John Downey can be lifted?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am afraid the legal advice is that it is almost impossible for circumstances to arise where that stay could be lifted, so I am afraid that decision is irreversible. My hon. Friend is right to characterise this as an extraordinary scheme—that is how it was characterised by Lady Hallett. What I would emphasise is the point made by almost all hon. Members: this was not an amnesty. In describing what it was, I could do no better than use the terms summarised by Lord Reid, who said that this was a scheme to inform

“people who were not wanted”—

for arrest by the police—

“that they were not wanted”

for arrest by the police. It was not a scheme to send letters of comfort to people who genuinely were wanted.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I will join the hon. Gentleman in that. We have had a hugely successful month for inward investment over June and July. I am sure that everyone who watched the World cup saw the Moy Park adverts, demonstrating that Moy Park is a world beater. That company alone announced 628 jobs in Dungannon, Craigavon and Ballymena. We have had further good news, with jobs announcements from Alexander Mann Solutions, HeartSine Technologies, Wrightbus, Thales, First Derivatives and, of course, Thompson Aero Seating.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

In balancing the Northern Ireland economy away from its over-reliance on the public sector, what are the prospects for rapid growth in the digital information services sector in the Province?

[Mrs Villiers]

I think there is great scope for growth in this area. The Digital Derry initiative is one that immediately springs to mind, but I believe that the strength of Northern Ireland’s creative industries also opens up great opportunities for success in the digital media world. A number of software companies have had great success in Northern Ireland, which is now ranked by the Financial Times as one of the best places in the world for financial services technology investment.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I share the hon. Lady’s concern about hate crimes in Northern Ireland. There has been a distressing number of such incidents over recent months. I strongly condemned those incidents in a speech that I made to the Police Federation for Northern Ireland. I have, of course, discussed these matters with the Police Service of Northern Ireland, including with the Chief Constable and Assistant Chief Constable Finlay. Such attacks are unacceptable and incompatible with a civilised society, and I totally condemn the attacks that have taken place.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Further to the last question, there is a small but significant number of ethnic minorities in Northern Ireland. What more needs to be done by the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that those minorities can play a full part in a shared future for the Province?

[Mrs Villiers]

In reflecting on how to build a shared society, it is important for the Northern Ireland Executive to look not just at the traditional divisions in Northern Ireland’s society, but at how more can be done to integrate and support minority communities in Northern Ireland. One way in which they can do that is by providing leadership and condemning the attacks that have taken place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

12. What steps are being taken to encourage Northern Ireland to be plugged in to the digital economy?

[Mr Robathan]

May I just say that the programme a “Game of Thrones” is made in Belfast now? I do not recommend it personally, Mr Speaker, having watched the lot.

We are taking steps on the digital economy and indeed, throughout the United Kingdom, we are going for digital by default. We are very keen that more is done in Northern Ireland in terms of the use of internet and digital in general. We are very clear about that, but this matter is the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive and we help them with it through the economic pact.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The only way to achieve a sustainable increase in living standards is to run the economy efficiently and effectively, and to have a credible plan to deal with the deficit. That is the way we can keep interest rates low and deal with inflation, and that is the way we can make this country a wealthier place.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Some disreputable people try to reduce the cost of living by smuggling fuel across the border with the Republic of Ireland. What steps are being taken to combat this menace?

[Mrs Villiers]

There is very effective cross-border working. There is also very effective working between the Northern Ireland Executive and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. We take this matter very seriously. My hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary has been looking with care at the different proposals for new marker technology. I expect progress on that to be announced very soon.

Haass Talks

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I reiterate the tributes paid to all participants in the working group, including the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson). Despite the fact that an agreement has not yet been reached, a remarkable amount of consensus has developed between the parties. We must build on that, and ensure that this is not a wasted opportunity and that the parties can get together again to resolve the remaining issues that divide them. On an implementation plan, as I have said already at the Dispatch Box, if agreement is forthcoming, of course the UK Government would be keen to provide support and advice on the practicalities of implementing the proposals across the three areas.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Given what has been said, it appears that no one is particularly surprised that the talks have not worked out, and that no one in particular is being blamed, as these issues are difficult and go back over a long period. Indeed, there is a good deal of satisfaction that this much progress has been made. It also appears that independent chairmanship worked. Although Dr Richard Haass is no longer available, it would be a shame to lose the momentum and the progress that has been made, so should not the Secretary of State encourage the Executive to appoint a new independent chairman and keep the process going while it is still warm so that we can cross that final finishing line?

[Mrs Villiers]

As I have said, that issue is well worth considering, and this shows one of the values of this early opportunity to debate in the House where things stand with the Haass process. No doubt the First Minister and Deputy First Minister will be given a read out of our proceedings, and I will certainly discuss with them the possibilities of appointing an independent chair, if they think that appropriate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The report states that

“there are longstanding allegations that Irish authorities turned a blind eye to arms smuggling across the border and to members of republican groups fleeing—after attacks had been carried out—back to the Republic of Ireland”.

Will my right hon. Friend raise that aspect of the report with the Irish authorities to ensure their full co-operation?

[Mrs Villiers]

I shall be happy to do so. Let me add, however, that the security co-operation between the police services north and south of the border has never been stronger. It is hugely important in combating the threat not just from dissident republicans, but from other criminals who seek to use the border to enhance their criminal activities. We continue to work with the authorities in the Republic of Ireland to establish how we can enhance our security co-operation with them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I am very concerned to hear about what happened to the hon. Gentleman’s constituent and I hope he will pass on my sympathies to him. Yes, I am afraid that one consequence of street disorder and extensive demonstrations night after night is that police resources get tied up with those matters, which makes it more difficult to fight crime across Northern Ireland. That is why I urge those who are contemplating street violence not to proceed with it. That is not the way to further their cause and they are likely to end up with a prison sentence if they continue on that course.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Is it not the case that more police officers would have been injured and that it would have taken longer to quell the disorder were it not for the effective deployment of water cannon? Will my right hon. Friend use her best endeavours to ensure that the lessons learned are understood by police forces here on the mainland?

Northern Ireland

Philip Hollobone Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that the people responsible for the violence are the perpetrators: the people chucking petrol bombs and attacking the police in this disgraceful way. It is important that, in the coming days, all of us who care about Northern Ireland seek to calm the situation and that a lead be given by the Orange Order. Northern Ireland’s political leadership has made it clear that it wants the situation calmed and that it condemns the violence, so I hope that the people on the streets will heed that call and realise that the violence is hugely damaging to Northern Ireland and does not support any cause. It is time for the debate about parades to come off the streets and to be channelled into a political process.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State believe that the level of disorder and the number of injuries to police officers would have been greater had it not been for the effective deployment of water cannon? Given that hundreds of police officers from Great Britain have now seen how this equipment can be effectively deployed, will she share her assessment of its use with the Home Secretary, so that water cannon can be deployed in Great Britain to deal with future public order disturbances on the mainland?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am inclined to agree that without the ability to deploy water cannon, there could have been more injuries to police officers. I am certainly happy to share with the Home Secretary the experience in Northern Ireland of deploying water cannon, if she would like me to do that.