Agenda for Change: NHS Pay Restraint

Debate between Philip Dunne and Rupa Huq

Monday 30th January 2017 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Philip Dunne)]

Mr Evans, I am grateful to you for calling me to wind up the debate. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) on taking up the petition and giving a well-constructed speech, with which many people listening to the debate—not just Members from her party, but those outside—will feel considerable sympathy. I express similar sentiments towards the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders). Although I do not agree with his prescription, I thought that he conducted himself in a thoroughly considered way, as usual. It is a pleasure to be shadowed by him, as well as by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), who as usual made a constructive contribution.

[Sir Roger Gale in the Chair]

First, I should say that we are all rightly proud of our national health service and the staff who work incredibly hard day and night for the benefit of patients. They undoubtedly deserve a cost of living increase, but we must recognise that the financial and quality challenge facing the NHS is unprecedented. These are not normal times. I deny the allegation that Agenda for Change staff are undervalued, as the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) indicated in his speech, which was knowledgeable, given his previous role as Health Secretary. Staff at all levels in the NHS do a fantastic job, and it is vital that we in Government and the leaders of the NHS recognise that staff morale is important to maintaining staff commitment to services.

In my experience of making visits across the NHS, hard-working staff put patients first every single day of the week. They do so because caring for sick and vulnerable people is as much a vocation for them as it is a job. I know that pay restraint is challenging, but when I speak to staff, they tell me that they want to know that the right number of staff will be working alongside them in the hospital or community setting. The Government have listened. Contrary to some of the contributions made by hon. Members, staff numbers have increased significantly across most grades since May 2010. We have recruited almost 11,800 more doctors. More than 13,300 more nurses are working on our wards today than in May 2010—the overall number of nurses working for the NHS is at an all-time high. There are over 2,100 more midwives, and more than 6,300 currently in training, as well as over 1,500 more health visitors and over 2,400 more paramedics.

The allegation that people are leaving the NHS in droves is simply not borne out by the facts. The most recent workforce statistics were published last week, covering the period ending October 2016, and they showed that a record number of full-time equivalents were working in our NHS.

[Dr Huq]

The Minister is giving figures for the current workforce, but does he have any for the future workforce? I mentioned my constituent, Dr Linda Burke, of nursing and education studies at the University of Greenwich. She is worried that due to the cut in nursing bursaries, the number of applications is falling, possibly by as much as 30%. The RCN itself has said:

“We have consistently raised concerns to the Government… Despite 100 years of nursing knowledge and expertise, our advice fell on deaf ears.”

The RCN is effectively saying, “We told you so.” Will he remark on that?

[Mr Dunne]

I can say to the hon. Lady that there are 51,000 nurses in training today—I cannot tell her whether that is a record number, but it is a very significant number. There are 1,600 paramedics in training, which I believe is a record number. She and one or two other hon. Members have given anecdotes today about applications for new courses starting in the autumn, but I cannot tell her what the figures will be, because I have not yet seen any numbers published by UCAS. I think that they are due in the coming days, so we will have to see.