Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill (First sitting)

Peter Gibson Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Trudy Harrison)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington on his success in promoting his private Member’s Bill. It brings our attention to an important issue: how the licensing authorities can best share information to ensure that the minority of individuals who would seek to cause harm can be prevented from obtaining a taxi or private hire vehicle driver’s licence.

As the Bill does not change the decision-making process of the licensing authorities, the amendment is an unnecessary clarification of what we mean by road safety. Clause 1 seeks to clarify which decisions by an authority to suspend, refuse or revoke a taxi or private hire vehicle driver’s licence should be recorded on a database. For those purposes, the broad description of road safety that is in use already would seem sufficient, as all decisions made in relation to road safety should be available for authorities to review when making their decisions.

Those authorities are of course still able to grant a new licence to a driver who has a record on the database. They are not bound by the previous decision, or by the fact that that is held on the database. The guidance that the Government will produce, should the Bill make it to the statute book, would clarify the terms in more detail for the licensing authorities, so that they are clear what decisions relating to road safety and other relevant information should be recorded on the database. For those reasons, the Government will resist the amendment.

[Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Bardell.

Clause 1 defines “Relevant information”. That definition is important because it is used throughout the Bill to trigger when there is a duty on a licensing authority to record instances of a suspension, refusal or revocation of a driver’s licence on the database, or to report concerns about drivers licensed in other areas. Those duties apply only when the licensing decision relies wholly or in part on the concerns related to relevant information.

Licensing authorities are required to carry out an assessment of whether a driver is fit and proper to hold a driver’s licence and to ensure that remains the case for the duration of the licence. Legislation already enables them to take a view of whether a driver is a risk to road safety. Licensing authorities are experienced at taking decisions on what poses a threat to road safety and know that they must justify those decisions. Existing checks and balances ensure that licensing authorities’ decisions can be contested, including the ability to challenge an authority’s assessment of any risk to road safety.

The Bill does not seek to change or influence the decision making of licensing authorities, and nor does it change the right of a driver to contest a decision; it is simply focused on ensuring passenger safety. The Bill includes provisions for the Secretary of State to issue guidance for licensing authorities, which I am sure could be used to provide further guidance on the matter.

Following my explanation and that of the Minister, I hope that the hon. Member for Ilford South will feel able to withdraw his amendment.

[Sam Tarry]

The purpose of the amendment is to ensure consistency across the country. The GMB, the LTDA and other representatives of the various minicab and private hire drivers across the country are keen to see the Bill go through. I know from our discussions that they want to have that ability in order to be certain that they would not be penalised in one area that was in any way different from the DVLA. I am also conscious that the Bill has been brought before the House many times, in different guises, and I am keen that we get as much Government support for it as possible. The Bill can move forward on a cross-party basis, so that it gets through and makes the changes that need to happen—many are contained in the Bill. It would make a real difference. On that basis, I will not press the amendment.

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[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider clauses 2 to 9 stand part.

[Peter Gibson]

This Bill aims to do two things. First, it introduces a mandatory database of taxi and private hire vehicle driving licence suspensions, refusals and revocations for all licensing authorities in England. Secondly, it creates duties on licensing authorities in England to report safeguarding and road safety concerns about drivers licensed by other authorities, and for those authorities to have a duty to take account of those concerns. These are essential changes to empower our licensing authorities to continue in their tireless work to keep the travelling public safe by giving them the information they need to make informed licensing decisions.

I have already spoken about clause 1, so I will move on to talk about the other clauses relating to the database and the responsibilities of licensing authorities to it. I will speak first to clause 4, as it pertains to the database itself, and then I will discuss clauses 2 and 3, which relate to the duties on licensing authorities to use it.

Clause 4 gives the Secretary of State the power to provide or designate a database to record the suspensions, refusals and revocations of taxis and private hire vehicles driving licences. This allows for a database, such as the NR3 database established by the Local Government Association and the National Anti Fraud Network, to be designated as the database that all authorities must use. This should help the Bill come into effect and provide its benefits much sooner, as this system is already being used voluntarily by many good local authorities.

Clause 4(3)(b) would ensure that there is a reasonable time limit for holding entries about a driver. The 11-year period specified in the Bill ensures that the information is available to licensing authorities to support their decision making, while still allowing, in line with other record keeping such as Disclosure and Barring Service checks, for that prior history to no longer be disclosed. The 11-year period broadly aligns with the filtering of less serious adult convictions within the regime in which the disclosure and barring regime operates. It is also worth remembering that all licensing authorities require drivers to be subject to an enhanced DBS check and most to a barred list check, with relevant convictions and non-conviction information disclosed as part of this process.

Clause 2 creates a duty on licensing authorities in England to record on the database information about certain suspensions, refusals and revocations. As explained earlier, authorities would have to record all suspensions, refusals and revocations of taxi and private hire driving licences where they have relied, at least partly, on relevant information, by which we mean safeguarding or road safety concerns. Clause 2 also ensures that those records are made promptly within five days of the decision being made and that authorities must keep their database entries up to date, including those as a result of appeals. That means that the information that authorities use to make their licensing decisions will be as current as possible, which is essential for effective decision making.

The database would also hold only basic information about a decision and the licence holder, to allow authorities to search effectively. To receive details of a decision, the authority would need to contact the relevant authority that had made the entry. That ensures that only those with a business need for the details of those licensing decisions can access them.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Bardell. On a point of clarification, will the fee associated with database entries be paid by the local authority or by the individual, and does the hon. Gentleman anticipate that it will be enough to cover all the administration costs, or does he think that the Government will need to, in effect, underwrite the database?

[Peter Gibson]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. From the information that I have been provided, because the majority of local authorities are already part of the National Anti Fraud Network, which runs the database, the additional cost that will be incurred by local authorities that were not already adding to the database in doing so is marginal. I think it will be a couple of pounds per driver entry, so it is a nominal cost, which I am sure she will agree is a small price to pay.

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[Trudy Harrison]

I will of course go away and consider that, and more importantly, we will work with colleagues in the Home Office. There has been some really important and concerning discussion about name changes in relation to DBS checks, and we are working on that issue with colleagues.

The Bill is an excellent step, and my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington has received support for it from across the House. I reiterate my thanks for the collaborative way in which we have got to this point. I look forward to following the Bill through its parliamentary stages.

[Peter Gibson]

This House is at its best when people work together, and this Committee has been a shining example of that co-operation and collaboration. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have been on this short Committee. This is a short but vital Bill, and I thank everyone for sharing their expertise.

The hon. Member for Rotherham has been a champion of reform in this area, and I pay tribute to her passionate work. The hon. Member for Cambridge, who I will designate the grandfather of the Bill, if I may, has been entirely co-operative throughout the process, and I thank him for his expertise and the care with which he has attended to the Committee’s proceedings. If the hon. Member for Cambridge is the grandfather of the Bill, then my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings is its great-grandfather. I thank him for his help, assistance and guidance throughout.

My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon—my good friend—is the Bill’s great-uncle. As he rightly pointed out, Sian O’Callaghan tragically lost her life at the hands of a taxi driver. Sian’s family and the Suzy Lamplugh Trust have been incredibly supportive of the Bill. It would be a fitting tribute to Sian if the Bill were to become known as Sian’s law.

I also thank the Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris), for her guidance on and navigation of the maze that is a private Member’s Bill. She has been stalwart in her help and support. I also thank the Minister on her first appearance as Minister in Committee.

In conclusion, I record my thanks to those who work behind the scenes, including the officials at the Department for Transport, who have put in the legwork on the Bill, and our Clerk, Mr Mellows-Facer, who has been incredibly supportive over the past few months. I hope that all members of the Committee will see the Bill through today. I look forward to their joining me in the Chamber on 21 January for Third Reading.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 2 to 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

I endorse the words of the hon. Member for Darlington and congratulate him and all other Members who have played such an important part in getting the Bill to this point. I also congratulate the staff of the House and those outside who have been mentioned—they have played a significant part. This will be an important date for them. The hon. Gentleman is right that we are at our best when we work cross-party to get things done.

Bill to be reported, without amendment.