EU Exit: Negotiations and the Joint Committee
Pete Wishart Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes a very important point about security. I would say three things. The first thing to say is that significant progress has been made in respect of security co-operation, but it is the case that the EU is insisting that, before we have access to systems such as the Schengen information system II, that we have to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. We cannot accept that.
The second thing I would say is that there are many areas in which we can co-operate more effectively to safeguard our borders outside the European Union than we ever could inside. Through a variety of methods and arrangements open to us, open to Border Force and open to our security and intelligence services, we can intensify the security that we give to the British people. The third thing I would say to my right hon. Friend is that I agree with her. When it comes to everything—security and other matters—no deal is better than a bad deal.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
So here we go. The coveted no deal is now within touching distance. The dance of the no-deal seven veils is now down to its Brexit underwear. The easiest deal in history will now mean the UK leaving on Mongolian terms. The absolute rubbish we had to listen to about oven-ready deals and holding all the cards is now just the stuff of grotesque bad jokes. And whose fault is it? Well, not the Minister’s or that of this cabal of Tory anti-EU obsessives. It is all the fault of these Europeans. How dare they ask the Tories to stand by what they agreed, and how dare they ask for a level playing field and to retain the integrity of the single market! The EU must have the patience of saints to try to negotiate with these clown shoe-wearing goalpost shifters. As we have just heard, the EU has once again offered to have intensive talks, so it is back in your court, Minister.
The Minister somehow expects Scotland to go along with this disaster. Well there is a saying that he will know as a proud Scot, which will be Scotland’s response to this: he can go awa’ an’ bile his heid. Independence is now the settled will of the Scottish people, with 58% of Scots now in favour, so here is a proposition for the Minister: why does he not just go off and get his no-deal Brexit if that is what England indeed wants, and in Scotland we can now secure our independence—what our people want—which will allow us to design our own future European relationship? Surely there is nothing wrong with that. He gets what he wants and we get what we want. Will he agree to that at last, and say goodbye to his rotten Union and his rotten no-deal Brexit?
Michael Gove
As ever, I am in awe of the hon. Member’s ability, in a very short period, to bring so many metaphors together in what one can only describe as a car crash of similes. The Government, according to him, is wearing seven veils and clown shoes while also shifting goalposts. I have to say that I would love to see that circus performance, but I suspect that I will have to wait, because the SNP conference has I think been cancelled this year.
The second thing I would like to say in response to the hon. Member is that he refers disparagingly to this deal as a “Mongolian deal”. I do not know what Mongolia has ever done to offend the people of Scotland, but we in the UK value our friendship with the people of Ulaanbaatar and others. Certainly, we do not believe that this looking down on other peoples in other nations is appropriate. It may be appropriate for the atavistic nationalism which some SNP supporters avail themselves of, but those of us who believe in the Union, believe in friendship among all nations.
On the hon. Member’s final point about working together, I absolutely agree. The devolved Administrations must work with us and we must work with them to make sure that, as we leave the European Union, the communities of all parts of the United Kingdom prosper. One of the things I do regret is that, even though I value my close working with his colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Economy and Tourism, Fergus Ewing, unfortunately, Scottish Government policy would mean that we would be back in the common fisheries policy. That would mean the people of Scotland’s coastal communities would lose out. I am sure he would not want that, and that is why I hope we can continue to work together to reap the benefits of the sea of opportunity that Brexit will bring.
Oral Answers to Questions
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years ago)
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Michael Gove
It is always flattering to receive compliments from colleagues across the House and across parties, and I am grateful to the hon. Lady for the gracious compliment that she pays me, but it is one that I am afraid I must gently turn down, because the Scottish Parliament will be receiving additional powers—a power surge—as a result of our departure from the European Union. That proves that devolution works. I think, and I think the majority of people in this House think, that devolution provides the people of Scotland with the best of both worlds—a strong Scottish Parliament and a strong UK Parliament. The Scottish National party, I am afraid, would force people to choose between being Scottish and being British, and I do not think that people should be forced to make that choice. They should, as Andrew Wilson, the author of the Scottish Government’s growth commission report, recently pointed out, take pride in being both Scottish and British.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
If the right hon. Gentleman’s Union is so strong, as he contends, can he tell me why he thinks Scottish independence is at a record high of 55% and has been at a sustained majority all year?
Michael Gove
The evidence of my eyes is that support for our United Kingdom across Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and in England, is strong. People recognise that it is the broad shoulders of the UK Treasury that have been responsible for helping to ensure that we can borrow money cheaply and invest in the people of Scotland’s welfare. In the conversations that I have had with Scottish Government Ministers, they always express their thanks and gratitude for the support the Treasury is giving. Whether it is the furlough scheme, Eat Out to Help Out or the support we have been giving to investment in hydrogen technology in Glasgow and in Aberdeen, the United Kingdom Government work with both the Scottish Government at Holyrood and Scottish local government to strengthen our United Kingdom. This has been a partnership for good for hundreds of years, and I know it will endure for many more.
Pete Wishart
The right hon. Gentleman will not produce his own opinion polls and he will not believe actual opinion polls, so maybe I will give him a few suggestions as to why support for Scottish independence is so high. He can see if he agrees with me in this. How about this? The power grab; the attacks on our democracy in Parliament; the contempt this place shows for our beautiful country; the constantly saying no to a majority of our people in Scotland; taking our nation out of the EU against our national collective will; the Prime Minister; him. Do any of them sound familiar to him at all?
Michael Gove
What an impressive list. What a pity that so many of the items in it sadly do not stand up to scrutiny. There is no power grab; there is a power surge as the Scottish Parliament receives additional powers as we leave the European Union. I think the hon. Gentleman used the phrase “contempt”. Actually, one of the things that the beautiful country of Scotland has achieved throughout our time in the United Kingdom is improved productivity, improved competitiveness, improved employment and a stronger health service. Sadly, over the last 10 years, some things have blighted progress in Scotland: a declining level of educational attainment as Scotland has gone down international league tables; a failure to procure the basic ferries that will mean that Scotland’s islands are connected to its mainland; and a failure to invest in the sick kids’ hospital in Edinburgh and elsewhere. All of those are failures of the Scottish Government. It is a sad state of affairs when the United Kingdom Government and the Scottish Government, who have so often committed to working together, are faced with a situation where the Scottish Government have comprehensively failed in these areas, but we stand ready to help the people of Scotland do even better in the future.
EU Exit: End of Transition Period
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years ago)
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Michael Gove
My right hon. Friend makes a number of very important points, and I am grateful to him for clearing up the point about archaeology, which I failed to address in my response to the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), but his expertise in this area is greater.
My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that we want to avoid the level of congestion that this reasonable worst-case scenario sets out, and he is also absolutely right that that requires people to work together. It requires not just the haulage industry, but in particular those goods exporters who commit goods to haulage to be ready in time. Part of that is the smart freight system, which has been developed and is being shared with business. We want to make sure that people use a relatively simple process to get what will become known as a Kent access permit, which means that they can then proceed smoothly through Kent because they have the material required. If they do not have the material required, through policing, ANPR cameras and other means, we will do our very best to ensure that his constituents are not inconvenienced.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
Today is the day when all the Brexit chickens come home to roost, only of course they will not, because they will be sitting in a 7,000-strong lorry queue on a Kent motorway for two days, waiting to be dispatched. I remember the days of the easiest deal in history, of having our cake and eating it while observing the sunny uplands, when even the Duchess himself told us that we hold all the cards. Well, it seems that the only card we are holding is the joker with his “Spitting Image” mush all over the front of it. What I do not understand is why he continues with the charade of seeking a deal when we know that it is the no deal that they all want and all covet?
I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that the Scottish people are also scenario planning. We are planning our best-case scenario, when we get out of rogue state UK before the worst of this Brexit madness consumes our beautiful nation. His European counterparts must be looking forward to the next round of talks with all the relish of a vegan being served a platter of chlorinated chicken.
We are told that the talks are at a delicate stage; they are so delicate that the EU is close to telling the UK to go and get stuffed, and I can see its point. It is having to deal with a UK that is prepared to tear up the withdrawal agreement that was oven-ready and the greatest deal ever just a few months ago and, in the process, break international law, but there is one good thing that has come out of all this: it has focused Scottish minds on the type of future that we want. Do we want a future in rogue state UK, with all the horror of their low-deal, no-deal Brexit, or a future as a normal European nation making our own decisions free of this clown-shoed Government? As a famous son of Aberdeen, the right hon. Gentleman must know which direction the Scottish people are travelling in.
Michael Gove
I do not know where to begin: chickens or cake. Those questions were a mixter-maxter of mixed metaphors the likes of which even the most impressive makar would be proud. It was a remarkable performance —they usually are. I thank the hon. Gentleman for referring to the fact that “Spitting Image” has fashioned a rubber puppet in my likeness. It is one of the greatest honours that has ever been paid to me, and I hope that other Members will enjoy that recognition in due course.
The hon. Gentleman asked about chickens. One of the things we will do is ensure that we prioritise day-old chicks, and fish and shellfish from Scottish harbours to make sure that they reach the fish market in Boulogne without let or impediment. As we take back control of our waters, and access to our marine resources enables Scotland to get thousands of new jobs and millions in new investment, we want to be able to take full advantage of that. Sadly, one of the Scottish Government’s decisions is that they wish to re-enter the European Union, give up access to that bounty and sell Scotland’s coastal communities short. I gently suggest that that is probably a mistake.
The hon. Gentleman makes the point that the best-case scenario for Scotland is independence. That has long been his position. Of course, while we set out to answer questions in this House, there are many questions about independence that have not been answered. What currency would an independent Scotland use? How would UK pensions be guaranteed in an independent Scotland? What would be the replacement for the furlough scheme in an independent Scotland when HM Treasury was no longer capable of providing that money? As Andrew Wilson’s growth commission has pointed out, an independent Scotland would have to pay a premium for borrowing on international markets. No pounds, no pension and poorer, an independent Scotland—unless the hon. Gentleman can come up with better answers—is the worst case of call.
United Kingdom Internal Market Bill
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years ago)
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The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Evans)
Before I call Pete Wishart, I just want to remind everyone that 18 Members still wish to participate in the debate, so please be mindful of that fact when making your contributions.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Dehenna Davison). I just love all the new Tory Members of Parliament—they are the best recruiting sergeant we have for the cause of independence anywhere in the House. Their lack of understanding of the devolution settlement is just astounding sometimes. What they are doing with their contributions and how that is assisting our cause is just fantastic for us. We very much enjoy every single contribution they make, and we want to encourage them. Please get up and disparage Scotland! Tell us our democracy does not matter! Tell us no, all the time, because all it does is grow support for independence.
Dehenna Davison
I would just like to thank the hon. Member for his mansplaining.
Pete Wishart
I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I have to say that I enjoyed her speech. I just wish that the Conservatives would make more of them, because this is just driving up support for us.
I rise today to oppose totally and utterly clauses 46 and 47 in their absolute entirety. With these clauses, we are now getting into the festering guts of this rotten rogue state Bill, and we are seeing how its entrails will choke the very life out of our Parliament and stifle our Scottish democracy. I hope that paints a vivid enough picture for Conservative Members. These clauses, if passed, would bring a shuddering halt to our Parliament’s exclusive authority over the devolved powers agreed in the Scotland Act 1998.
David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Pete Wishart
I tend to eat Tory Back Benchers for breakfast, but if the hon. Gentleman wants, I will let him come in.
David Simmonds
I am grateful for his vivid description of the political impact of the Bill, but does he not recognise that the powers that the Bill covers are currently maintained in Brussels and supervised by the Council of Ministers, on which the devolved Administrations have no representation? He and his colleagues will therefore have a greater say over these matters when they are controlled by this House than they have done hitherto.
Pete Wishart
It is probably just as well I have eaten, because I would otherwise consume that with no problem at all. Can I just say to the hon. Gentleman that we would take the authority of the EU looking over Scotland any day, rather than rogue state UK. I say that very candidly and sincerely.
Pete Wishart
No, I won’t. [Interruption.] I might give way later, as the hon. Gentleman is a prize on the Government Benches, and we will of course want to hear from him in time, because I enjoy our little exchanges.
Angus Brendan MacNeil
My hon. Friend is making a fine speech and points out the way that devolution has been torn apart by the Conservative party. The answer to that is what is increasingly coming from poll after poll of the Scottish people: the answer is not to continue under the Conservatives. The answer is independence; we go up the road and they can argue the way they want themselves.
Pete Wishart
Yes, what they want to do is up to them. Get on with it, for goodness sake, just do not take our country down with you. My hon. Friend is spot on.
What is the Government’s view on all this? I have listened to the speeches in this debate, and some of those from Conservative Members were totally astounding: “There’s nothing to see here. Don’t worry your precious little Jockish heads about what we’re doing. All we are doing is merely copying what the EU does on state aid and structural funding.” However, I say to them that this idea that there is some sort of equivalence between the European Union and the UK is total and utter bunkum and nonsense. Let me explain why to them. The EU is a partnership association made up of member states; it is a rules-based organisation based on the decisions of its members. The United Kingdom, on the other hand, is an incorporating Union that simply subsumes Scotland as a nation and forces us under the sovereignty of this Parliament, even though we agree on the principle of the sovereignty of the people. They could not be more different, but yet again Conservative Members tell us that this is all about an equivalence with the EU, and that is utter, utter bunkum.
Alan Brown
My hon. Friend is reminding Conservative Members of that point, and is it not the case that the EU has never forced a single infrastructure project on Scotland, yet clause 46 allows the UK Government to do what they want in Scotland against the wishes of the Scottish Parliament?
Pete Wishart
That is exactly the essence of what this is all about—this idea that somehow they know better for Scotland, better than the directly elected representatives of the people in the Scottish Parliament. It is an absurd suggestion. There is no evidence that they know better than the Scottish Parliament, and we will not accept that. I thank my hon. Friend for his thoughts.
The Government have suggested today that we are complaining about extra funding. First, is there any extra funding? Secondly, where does it come from? Thirdly, how much is it going to be? We could have a debate about extra funding if they could answer all those questions. I am looking at the Minister; maybe she could tell us. We have the devolved powers for a particular reason. It is because we want democratic control over the decision makers on everything from education to health to infrastructure to water—all the things that they now want to exercise responsibility over.
Pete Wishart
I do not have time. I am conscious that other people want to come in.
Before devolution, there was a Scotland Office. It exercised responsibility, authority and powers over all the areas that are now controlled by the Scottish Parliament. The reason devolution came across was to directly express democratic control over those responsibilities. The Government now want to go back to the dark days of the 1980s, under the regime of Michael Forsyth and Malcolm Rifkind. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] They are going “Hear, hear”! I am hearing a “Hear, hear” from the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie). May I just say that the rest of Scotland does not share that ambition? I am pretty certain that when he stands next year for the Scottish Parliament he will find that out.
So that is what the Government are doing—they are attempting to take us back to those days. Extra money is great if there is any; I am just wondering how much it is, and whatever it is, how it will be distributed. But it should be under the democratic control of the Scottish Parliament when it comes to the devolved powers, because that is what it is there to do.
Why are the Government really doing this? Here is my theory; tell me if I am on the right tracks. They can never win an election in Scotland—the Scottish Conservatives have absolutely no chance of winning an election in Scotland. The new ever-cheerful hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) and his belligerent baroness partner are actually taking the Scottish Conservatives further down. They are sinking below 20% in the polls. So they are thinking, “We’re never, ever going to get legislative responsibility and control of the Scottish Government, so we’ll just go round it—we’ll just circumvent it.” That is actually easier for the Scottish Conservatives than winning an election. So that is why they are doing it.
Another thing that they are doing is what I call “slap a jack on it”—the idea that somehow, the Scottish people will learn to love the Conservatives if they see a whole load of projects with Union Jacks on, given by the largesse and generosity of the Great Britain and United Kingdom Parliament. Nothing will irritate the Scottish people more than seeing all that rubbish splattered about our country.
I will just finish with this. Aggressive Unionism is not working for them. I know that they have all these new figures in the Scotland Office. They have the new constitution unit. Surely, with all these great thinkers on the Union, someone must be able to turn round to the Government and say to them, “We’ve tried this. We tried undermining the powers of the Scottish Parliament. We tried ‘slap a jack on it.’ We tried all these things to curtail Scottish democracy, and all that is happening is that support for independence is going up and up and up.” Now, it might just be me, but if you are doing the same thing again and again and it is not working for you, surely you should change it and do something different, to try and ensure that the Union case prevails. It is almost to our benefit that they are continuing with this type of aggressive Unionism, because what we have seen is a rise in support for independence. I give them this advice only because I know that they will never take it: what they are doing is ensuring the Union’s demise.
The day of Scotland being subject to rubbish like this rogue state UK Bill, with the stripping of our powers and the diminishing of our democracy, is a day too long. This issue will be critical in the next Scottish parliamentary election. They are going to get gubbed. There will be a demand from Scotland for independence, and it will be goodbye Westminster—and it cannot come soon enough.
Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). As I am looking to speak about the Bill’s contents, I will not describe him in the patronising, condescending manner in which he describes me and my colleagues.
Although the coronavirus pandemic has had devastating impacts across many areas of our society, it has been useful in highlighting what is needed to achieve success and stability in the government of our nations—a united and consistent approach, and leadership. Many times in the past few months the governance from Wales has been neither united nor consistent, nor has it demonstrated leadership. The Welsh Government have let down the people of Wales due to its often slow, confusing and divided stance, and then had the audacity to turn the mirror on this House and say that the confusion was caused by the UK Government.
Amendment 33 would cause further division between our four nations and looks to divide our great Union completely. This is not a Bill about politics. It is not a Bill about who get to be the ones writing the cheques or taking the credit for things. This is an economic Bill that will allow more money to be spent in Wales for the benefit of our villages, towns, cities, businesses and residents. Covid has shown us the value of devolved nations working together as a united force, yet when provisions set out in the Bill allow for joint working and support that would benefit individuals across our United Kingdom, those sat on the other side of this House oppose it.
Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)
I will speak to clauses 46 and 47, because I am a good, well-behaved Member of this House, but I will make one quick point, which is that I am entirely comfortable with voting for every aspect of the Bill. From what I can see, it gives this country the ability to live entire and whole. If, under certain circumstances, the EU takes the extraordinary step of essentially forming a blockade in Northern Ireland and putting a border down the Irish sea, it gives us the ability, under these extraordinary circumstances, to show strength and to respond in kind. I am proud to support that.
Let me speak specifically to clauses 46 and 47. When it comes to the EU structural funds, I am slightly confused, because when we were in the European Union, Scotland had six MEPs out of 751 and Wales had four MEPs out of 751. That does not sound to me like much of a say, compared with Scotland now having 49 Members in this place and Wales having 40. To be perfectly honest, I think that what we are proposing in the Bill gives Wales and Scotland’s elected representatives far more say over how the money is spent.
Tom Hunt
I will not give way. The Bill gives the people of your country far more say over how that money is spent, so it is something to be welcomed. You should stand up for your responsibility to represent your constituents in his place and come here, and when there are opportunities to frame how that money is spent in your areas, use it. That is far from saying, “Actually, no, we don’t want to have a greater influence over how this money is spent; we should send it back to Brussels”—where the money is spent in a most faceless way. Unelected bureaucrats in Brussels make decisions with a little EU flag attached to them. I am sorry, but I do not see the power grab here; it is not a power grab whatsoever.
Pete Wishart
We have been around this so many times. The devolved powers are the responsibility of the Scottish Government, and it is up to them to make spending priorities. However, I was interested by something the hon. Gentleman said about Scotland having six MEPs. How many does he think we get when we become an independent nation? Think of Denmark.
Tom Hunt
We are talking specifically about clauses 46 and 47. We are talking specifically about this money. My argument is that, under these clauses, the people of Scotland and its representatives will have far more influence over how that money is spent than under the status quo. I am glad you intervened on me, because I wanted to give you some political advice, because you are very good at giving political advice to us—
United Kingdom Internal Market Bill
Pete Wishart ExcerptsMonday 14th September 2020
(4 years ago)
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Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
Sometimes a piece of legislation comes along that is just so audacious, pernicious and chaotic that it is difficult to comprehend the scale of the carnage it will deliver in its wake. This single market Bill is a prime example of that type of legislation. It is almost unbelievable. It is a Bill that only this Government, with their weird assortment of Brexiteer oddballs, would consider going anywhere near. In fact, it is almost perfect for them, given their penchant for governance by chaos and disorder.
Breaking international law? For this Govt, that is a trifling detail. They just do not care. For them, being a rogue state is as natural as leaving the EU without a deal, or illegally proroguing Parliament. They are even starting to tell us now that being a pariah state somehow enhances the UK’s international standing. We can imagine, in a few years’ time, the Foreign Secretary of rogue state UK turning up to the United Nations during an international crisis that threatens the world order involving, say, Iran or North Korea, or an international convention or treaty. What authority and credibility would rogue state UK have in that situation? Kim Jong-un would turn around and say, “I’m firing these missiles, but only in a limited and specific way.”
I want to confine my remarks to what this rotten Bill will do to my nation. If the Government want their rogue state, that is up to them. If they want their no-deal Brexit, go ahead, have it, we will wish you all the best, but do not bring down our beautiful nation in the process. Never before has there been such a sustained attack on our Parliament or our democracy. The invention and development of the idea of a UK single market has been one of the most spectacular and dishonest pieces of political chicanery we have witnessed in recent times. The barefaced nonsense of this being a power surge is contradicted by practically every detail of the Bill.
There are two areas I particularly want to touch on. One is what is included in clause 46—the one that allows the UK Government to legislate directly in devolved responsibilities. This mechanism is designed to bypass the Scottish Government. The Scottish Tories know that they will never come anywhere near governing Scotland, so what they will do is just get around the process. Even under the new leadership of the ever charming ray of sunshine that is the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross), they are still going down in the polls, so what they need to do is circumvent Scottish democracy and ensure that they get direct control and access to specific interests when it comes to Scotland. That is what they are doing with this particular Bill.
The other thing is the Competition and Markets Authority. I remember listening to all those Brexiteer colleagues over there, when they used to rage against all the unelected bureaucrats—remember these mythical creatures of yore? Well, I found them—they are not sitting in an office in Brussels; they are sitting in the Cabinet Office. They are not called the European Commission; they are called the Competition and Markets Authority, and it is them that will arbitrate on everything to do with devolution and what the Scottish Government can and cannot do.
Ian Paisley
Did the hon. Member not oppose the Northern Ireland protocol because it discriminated against the needs of the people of Scotland? Now for some reason he seems to be taking to his hind feet, wanting to support the protocol and oppose the Bill that removes those pernicious aspects of the protocol. Why has he changed?
Pete Wishart
I think the hon. Gentleman may be confusing me with somebody else. I say ever so candidly to him that I did not oppose just parts of the Government’s EU Brexit—I opposed it in its totality, as did the people of Scotland. We opposed overwhelmingly the idea that we have to be taken out against our will.
This is what it is coming down to. In the next few months, the Scottish people have a critical decision to make about the type of future they want for their country. They could decide to remain part of rogue-state UK, with the Government’s no-deal Brexit and all the other things that they want to do, or they could simply decide that they want to become an independent country of their own, making their own decisions and their own way in the world, deciding things in good faith, negotiating as a nation, and coming together with other nations in the world to ensure that we get the best possible future for us and our allies.
We have only a few short months when it comes to this, and I think we are beginning to see just where we are going. Independence now sits at 55%—the highest it has ever secured. There is sustained majority support for independence in Scotland. My nation is making up its mind about the type of future that it wants, and it is not this future as a pariah state, taking us out of the EU against our national collective will. We have only six months to get this debate properly focused and determined. I am pretty sure, when I am looking at opinion polls and seeing where independence is, that Scotland is making up its mind. Scotland is deciding that it is going to be a nation of its own.
Several hon. Members rose—
Oral Answers to Questions
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years, 2 months ago)
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Michael Gove
Absolutely. From Ynys Môn to Wrexham, there is a team of fantastic Conservative and Unionist Members of Parliament representing the interests of north Wales with vigour and energy. I would be delighted to meet them. We need to do more to ensure that the businesses and people of north Wales get the support they need from this UK Government, working alongside the Welsh Government, to strengthen our Union.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
There is no doubt about the right hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for the Union, but perhaps he could answer me this. Why does he think that support for independence has now reached 54% among the Scottish people and reached a sustained majority in the past year?
Michael Gove
Opinion polls come and go. I am always interested in what opinion polls tell me, but I am rather more interested in real votes cast in real ballot boxes. The last time the people of Scotland were asked if they wanted to remain in the United Kingdom they decided that they did want to by a whopping 10 percentage points—facts are chiels that winna ding—and since then we have seen how the strength of the United Kingdom has supported Scotland’s economy. Indeed, I was very interested to see earlier today that one of the economic advisers to the First Minister said that the support of the UK Government would be vital to Scotland’s economic recovery.
Pete Wishart
The right hon. Gentleman might not like opinion polls, and of course they are transitory, but let me tell him about another couple of opinion polls. Support for the Scottish National party is now at 55% and we are seeing support for independence growing month by month. He did not give an answer to this, so I will try to answer it for him and he can tell me which one of these he agrees with. Support for independence is rising because of the Government’s Brexit and the way that they are imposing on us their Brexit that, as a country, we rejected; the disrespect; the condescension; the power grab; the barely hidden contempt for our nation from his colleagues behind him on the Conservative Benches; the mistreatment of our Parliament and our democracy; and, of course, the chaotic leadership of his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. Which one of those does he think is rising independence most?
Michael Gove
I am very grateful for that multiple-choice question from the hon. Member. It reminds me that when I sat my O-levels and multiple-choice exams when I was a schoolboy in Aberdeen, Scotland’s schools were stronger than England’s schools. Now, after 10 years of SNP Government, Scotland’s schools have fallen behind. The record of the SNP in government, I am afraid, has been one of complacency and neglect. That is why I believe we need to have a strong UK Government working alongside MSPs from every party in order to make our United Kingdom stronger than ever.
EU Exit: End of Transition Period
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years, 2 months ago)
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Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the Chair of the Liaison Committee for his thoughtful and detailed questions. On the first, which relates to the Northern Ireland protocol, there will need to be the provision of certain information to ensure that the UK plays its part in the implementation of the protocol by helping to protect the EU single market. We will say more about that later this month.
We are entirely satisfied that the phased implementation of controls is compliant with WTO procedures, but my hon. Friend is right to stress that that is because it is a temporary regime, and we will ensure that there is no alteration to the timetable we have set out.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
Here we are: the end game of the disastrous and tortuous Brexit, all summed up neatly in the not-too-catchy slogan, “Let’s get going.” Dominic Cummings must have been up all night thinking of that one.
We are now to have an economic downturn precipitated by covid and compounded by the Government’s hard Brexit. It does not matter what chaos Brexit will bring or what damage it will inflict on the economy—the decimation of key sectors, the chaos at the borders, the threat to livelihoods. All that is supremely inconsequential to all the anti-EU obsessives.
“Let’s get going,” says the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and we in Scotland intend to take him exactly at his word, although perhaps not quite in the way he intended. We fully intend to get going—going from this Government’s disastrous Brexit Britain: 54% of the Scottish people now support Scottish independence, and that support is only going to go up.
As for the Tories, all they can now try to do is impose their will on a recalcitrant Scotland. Their latest wheeze, of course, is to curb devolution, to attack the powers of the Scottish Parliament and to impose a UK single market on a Scotland wanting out of their UK. This, my Brexiteer friends, is the new UK superstate. Remember that word, superstate, when its nightmarish controlling horror was so chillingly and wrongly assigned to the European Union? The superstate is arriving for Scotland, but it is not wearing gold stars on blue; it is wearing a Union Jack. All this will do is turn the trickle of remainers who are now supporting independence into a full-going flood.
All I can say to the right hon. Gentleman is that we will not be participating in this new UK single market, or making it work or implementing it. The only thing we will be doing with it is using it as a recruiting sergeant for more people to support independence. I suppose he now has two choices when it comes to Scottish independence. He could do it easily and conveniently in partnership with us, or he could draw it out in a useless self-defeating process of attrition. Either way, we win. Enjoy your Brexit, my Conservative friends. We will not be coming with you. You may be getting going from the EU, but it is right that we are getting going from the UK.
Michael Gove
It is always a pleasure to see the hon. Gentleman, and it is particularly good to see him in his place here in the Chamber. I have to say that that is a particularly brave move, however, given the comments of the First Minister of Scotland over the course of the weekend, because if, as rumoured, the quarantine regulations mean that people cannot move from England to Scotland, he might well be imprisoned in his place here for far longer than he ever anticipated. However, I for one would be cheering if that happened, because I so enjoy his company.
As is the hon. Gentleman’s wont, and his right, he chose to skate lightly over the detail in his response, but he nevertheless made a number of important points. He suggested that, as a result of our departure from the European Union, we would be curbing devolution. That is not the case. More than 100 powers will be returned to the Scottish Parliament as a result of our leaving the European Union. Far from being a power grab, it is a power surge for all the Parliaments of the United Kingdom He also made the point that it is the Scottish National party’s policy to leave the UK but to then join the European Union, which would mean that all those powers that will flow to the Scottish Parliament would be returned to Brussels. This would include the return to the EU of Scotland’s capacity to regulate its own fishing waters, just as Scotland was previously shackled to the common fisheries policy. So the SNP’s position, curiously, is to demand fewer powers for the Scottish Parliament and more powers for the European Commission. Not, I think, a popular view in Fraserburgh.
The hon. Gentleman talked about our proposals, which are designed to ensure that Scotland’s businesses and citizens can continue to sell their goods and services into the rest of the UK. Instead of welcoming that collaborative working, he talked about these policies being a recruiting sergeant for independence. I could say that the mask had slipped, but he has never worn a mask to hide his intentions. He is a separatist and a nationalist. I love him dearly, but as long as he cleaves to that ideology, I am afraid we have to recognise that he is in the wrong boat.
Oral Answers to Questions
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr Jack
Yes, I agree. I think Scottish Ministers need to wake up to the fact that we have left the European Union and we will leave the transition period on 31 December. I know that the Scottish Government do not like the outcomes of referendums when they do not go their way, but this is another one we are delivering on.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
An opinion poll recently found that 63% of the Scottish people back a Brexit extension—that is on top of the overwhelming majority who oppose the Brexit disaster in its entirety—and the Secretary of State has probably seen an opinion poll that found that 54% of the Scottish people now want an independent Scotland. What does the Secretary of State believe links those opinion polls, and what does that tell him about where our country is heading?
Mr Jack
I was going to say I was pleased that for once that the hon. Gentleman had not made it all about independence, but he managed to weave it in. I think the whole House would like to congratulate him on giving up his own independence by getting engaged last weekend.
The answer is that we had a general election and we had a resounding majority across the United Kingdom for a manifesto that said we would honour the result of the referendum. We are going to honour that result: we are going to take back control of our laws, borders and money and we are going to leave the hated common fisheries policy and become—here is the independent bit for the hon. Gentleman—an independent coastal state.
UK-EU Negotiations
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years, 3 months ago)
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Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Taskforce Europe, the team that is engaged in making sure that we secure a good deal with the EU, has drawn on resources from across Government, including from the Cabinet Office—it is led, of course, by the Prime Minister’s sherpa, David Frost—but I believe we have an excellent team well capable of taking forward all strands in this negotiation.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP) [V]
May I start by thanking the right hon. Gentleman? He, more than any other senior Tory, has made the single biggest contribution to the cause of independence in Scotland. It is his supreme efforts around Brexit that have pushed support for Scottish independence to sustained majority support. All of us who support an independent Scotland salute him today, and the statue will soon be commissioned in Aberdeen harbour.
I am sure all that nonsense and Euro-blaming he just spouted looks like progress to him, but for us in Scotland it just confirms why we want to get out of their dysfunctional Union. Just look at last week. The right hon. Gentleman totally and contemptuously ignored the representations from all the devolved Administrations about Brexit extension. He treated them with such disdain that they felt there was no point engaging with him any longer. They decided they would be better off washing their overabundant collective hair than listening to this Government again tell them what they should do and what to think about their chaotic Brexit plans. So I ask the Secretary of State: what is the point? What is the point of devolved Administrations engaging with him and his Government anymore? A tiger has been put in the tank. That tank is labelled “Scottish independence”.
Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that gallimaufry of not so much mixed as entangled metaphors. May I first of all congratulate him on wishing to erect statues rather than pull them down? I would be delighted to be carved in marble, bronze or whatever is the appropriate material, anywhere in Scotland, but I have to say that I do not deserve it. May I also say that as long as his smiling features gaze down on us, we know that the Union is safe. We know that the cause of Scottish nationalism, despite the ardour with which he puts his case, sadly will not prevail intellectually, morally, economically or politically.
The hon. Gentleman makes the point, of course, that there has been a difference of opinion between the Scottish Government and the UK Government on the question of extension, but there has been extensive engagement between the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government, the Northern Ireland Executive and our Government. Of course, even if we have taken different views, we have also worked together in order to safeguard the interests of our United Kingdom.
The hon. Gentleman made the point that some politicians would have been washing their hair instead of engaging in serious negotiations. All I can say is that rather than washing their hair, they were washing their hands of their responsibility to the people of this country. I hope that his colleagues in the Scottish Government will continue, as they have for most of this year, to engage in the constructive fashion for which they are well known in making sure that the interest of every citizen of the United Kingdom is protected.
Oral Answers to Questions
Pete Wishart Excerpts(4 years, 3 months ago)
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Penny Mordaunt
I thought he might. That was strongly associated with a lowered risk of transmission, but a distance of 2 metres was likely to be more effective. The advice therefore remains that wherever possible the public should keep two metres from one another, but the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies keeps that under review.
Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)
Can the Minister think of one specific episode in the past few weeks that might have done more than anything else to undermine the Government’s public messaging on covid? If she is struggling, let me give her a clue: Specsavers.
Penny Mordaunt
The hon. Gentleman raises a serious point, but if he thinks that that has undermined public health messages, I would strongly suggest he might like to stop banging on about it.
Pete Wishart
The failure of this Government to take the Cummings episode seriously has not just compromised the public messaging; it is worse than that for them—it has compromised their credibility and popularity, which have now taken the catastrophic nosedive they thoroughly deserve. The public anger over Dominic Cummings has not abated, as the right hon. Lady will see if she looks at her inbox. The whole battle against covid has been wrecked by the pathetic protection of this odd man. Is Dominic Cummings really worth all of this?
Penny Mordaunt
It is absolutely vital in every part of our United Kingdom that people follow the advice of our respective chief medical officers. They should do that not because I, the hon. Gentleman, any politician or any adviser asks them to, but because it is the right thing to do to protect our families, our communities and our NHS and to get the economy moving again. I know that the hon. Gentleman is angry, and many people are angry, but that is what we need to focus on and that is the message we need to deliver. I thank everyone in this country who has followed that advice, because they are beating the virus.