Housing Benefit

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Umunna]

Absolutely; I would not disagree with the hon. Gentleman.

I have outlined some of the effects on my community that we are able to discern, but there will be others that it is difficult to quantify at the moment. We are going to be faced with people moving from inner London to our part of Lambeth, seeking private rented accommodation.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

We know that this is what the Tories do: they attack the poor and the vulnerable. But what about Labour? I could not make out from what the right hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander) said whether Labour was for or against the cap. Does the hon. Gentleman know?

[Mr Umunna]

If the hon. Gentleman reads the motion, he will see no denial of the need for some degree of housing benefit reform. No doubt my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) will give further details in her speech, in addition to the many details that my right hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South gave the House earlier.

I was talking about the effects of the measures that we are not yet able to discern. We have 22,000 people on social housing waiting lists in Lambeth, but we have no idea of the number who will seek social private rented housing in our area as a result of the changes. I mention that figure to demonstrate that we are already under huge pressure.

There has been a lot of talk about introducing these measures to reduce the benefits bill, but we are told that rents will inevitably fall as well. London Councils, a cross-party organisation, has carried out a survey of landlords in London. I make no apology for talking about London, by the way; it is my area, and it is where my constituency is based. The survey found that 60% of landlords letting properties to housing benefit tenants in London said that they would not reduce their rents, even by a small amount, to accommodate the changes, and Shelter has found that 43% of such landlords will simply scale back their operations in this sector.

I want to finish by mentioning a matter that I have already raised with the Chancellor of the Exchequer—the proposal to reduce by 10% the housing benefit of jobseeker’s allowance recipients who have been receiving JSA for more than 12 months. I challenged the Chancellor about this at a Treasury Committee hearing in July and asked him to provide me with evidence that that measure would produce increased work incentives, given that he said that that was why he was introducing it. Funnily enough, he quoted the Institute for Fiscal Studies back at me. It is funny how the coalition Government choose to ignore the IFS when it tells them things they do not want to hear, only to quote it back at me when they find it helpful.

The Chancellor quoted an IFS report that found that

“welfare benefits can have substantial effects on the work behaviour of unskilled and even for men with high school education”.

Be that as it may, I do not see how there can be an incentive for people to work when there are no jobs for them to go into. In the past few weeks, information from the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development has shown that 1.6 million people are going to be out of work as a result of the measures being introduced by the Government. We already know that there are five people chasing every vacancy in the economy, and research shows that that figure is not going to fall.

Will the Minister tell us why the Government are seeking to punish people who are doing everything they can to find work? I have asked this question in the Chamber before, but I have not received a reply. There are many people in my constituency who have been on JSA for more than a year—the number generally hovers between 700 and 800—and who are struggling to find work. Why are the Government punishing them when they are already down on their luck? We must resist the divisions that the headlines are seeking to create in our communities. This is an issue for everyone, whether they are on housing benefit or not, and I plead with the Government to reconsider the measure on JSA recipients. As I have said, they are already down on their luck. Why kick them when they are down?

--- Later in debate ---

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful intervention.

Even in the face of recession, my party supported home owners to stay in their homes. Because of our actions, the current repossession rate is half that of the last recession of the early 1990s, preventing about 300,000 families from losing their homes. In 2004, local authorities met Labour’s target that no family should be in bed-and-breakfast accommodation for more than six weeks. When we prepared to tackle the issue in 2002, up to 4,000 families were housed in such accommodation. Conservative Members say, “Well, you didn’t do enough”, but we did a great deal for people who were in substandard housing. About 55,000 affordable houses were also built.

I turn to the cuts themselves. The Government say that they have to be made to reduce costs, but contrary to the Secretary of State’s assertion that Labour Members are scaremongering and coming up with facts and figures that are not borne out, it is Shelter that has stated that £120 million more will have to be spent on families who are made homeless as a result of the cuts. It is not Labour party members or MPs who have said that.

The cuts will cause big cities such as London to become like Paris. I know that the Secretary of State said that that was another piece of scaremongering, but it is not. There will be dispersal—we all now accept that word, as we know that people do not want to use the word “cleansing”. It will inevitably follow the cuts that if someone lives in what is considered to be an expensive part of town, where rents and rates are higher, after the cuts they will have to move out of their accommodation. That will effect social engineering, because only well-off people will be able to live in good areas of big cities. It will basically get rid of poorer people to the outer margins of the big cities and towns, into the poorer areas.

[Pete Wishart]

The hon. Lady seems to be suggesting that she is against any cap on housing benefit. I am with her on that one, but can she persuade her Front Benchers to come with us? I still do not know what the Labour party policy is on a housing benefit cap. Does she have any clearer understanding of that?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I understand what the hon. Gentleman says, but I am talking only about how the change will affect my constituents.

Of course, the increase in rents and rates is not the result of people choosing to live in expensive areas. We have to remember that many people have been living in their areas for the past 20, 30 or 40 years. It is not their fault that over the years house prices and rents have gone up. That does not mean that they should be sent 60 or 100 miles away where they have no family, relatives or friends and be completely disconnected from their community.

Shelter has stated that the Government have not examined the impact of the proposals on many claimant households that will be shifted from around or just below the 60% median income line into severe poverty. The proposals will push an additional 84,000 households below £100 a week per couple, and those households include 54,000 children.

Cutting the local housing allowance to the 30th percentile means that 700,000 of the poorest people, who are both in work and out of work, will be at least £9 a week worse off.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pete Wishart]

The right hon. Lady promised to say whether the Labour party is planning to introduce a cap. How much would that be, and how would a nice new Labour cap differ from a nasty Tory cap?

[Caroline Flint]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I will come to that.

Those colleagues—I call them colleagues because the substance of their speeches suggest that they may join us in the Lobby tonight—may be interested to know that the Minister for Housing referred to the Hull city council leader, Carl Minns, who is a Liberal Democrat, as a “motormouth” when he raised concerns about the impact of some of the Government’s policies on people in Hull. Lord Shipley, a former leader of Newcastle city council, said that the private rented sector had been a “cornerstone” in stopping the use of bed and breakfast in Newcastle and that he did

“not wish to return to the days when we did…My concern is that the local housing allowance changes may restrict access to private rented accommodation and therefore limit the capacity of councils generally to resolve future housing need.”

Those thoughts echo many of the comments that have been made.

It is a shame that not one Minister from the Department for Communities and Local Government is on the Benches at the end of these proceedings. Clearly, the Minister for Housing does not believe that it is worth while sitting alongside his colleagues from the Department for Work and Pensions to consider how to address reform of housing benefit and housing supply, which many of my hon. Friends and a few hon. Members raised. That is a great shame.

We are not opposed to reform. My right hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander) made that very clear. We are not against caps in the housing benefit system, as long as they do not make people homeless or cost us more in the long run. We do not have an objection to asking younger single adults on housing benefit to live in a shared house or flat, but we must be sure that there is enough supply to accommodate everyone, and to recognise that some single people may have particular needs that require them to be accommodated in a different way. We will look at how non-dependant deductions can be made, provided they do not result in people suddenly finding themselves unable to live in their homes with an elderly relative, for example. We are willing to consider some temporary changes to the uprating of benefits so long as that does not permanently break the link between the rent that people pay and the help that they receive.

We also believe that cutting the local housing allowance to the 30th percentile will have a huge impact, which is not to be desired. About 700,000 of the poorest people, in work and out of work, will be on average at least £9 a week worse off. We recognise the need for reform but, as in other areas, such reform should be staged over a number of years and be more limited.