Employment and Trade Union Rights (Dismissal and Re-engagement) Bill

Debate between Paul Howell and Jack Dromey

Friday 22nd October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) for his outstanding advocacy of a necessary measure to ban from our country practices that have no place in modern Britain.

No one today has argued other than that there are circumstances in which profit-making companies put workers up against the wall and tell them that they will be fired and rehired unless they agree to major changes to their terms and conditions of employment. Whether that is British Gas on the one hand, or British Airways on the other, employers who have flown the flag of Britain have treated British workers shamefully. I have met weeping workers who have worked for a company for decades and who loved the job they were doing, but who feel they have been treated disgracefully. Across the House there has been consensus that there is no place for such treatment of workers in modern Britain. The question is whether we mean it, for this is the opportunity to end it.

[Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)]

One thing that has been debated a few times is whether the Bill actually removes fire and rehire. Cleary—from the intention of the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner)—it does not. We have also heard that a lot of employees are concerned not just about the risk of fire and rehire, but about the threat of that. If we do not remove fire and rehire, the threat will still sit there, and we will still have that problem. What is the point of the Bill?

[Jack Dromey]

The danger to workers will be significantly lessened if my hon. Friend’s Bill passes into law.

Following on from the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, I have two points. First, some Members have asked whether a private Member’s Bill is an appropriate vehicle. I will give a good example in just one moment as to why it is. Secondly, it has been said that the proposed Bill is not perfect. In what I thought was an interesting contribution, the hon. Member for Newbury (Laura Farris) said that it is clear that the law is not working. It should be a matter of last resort, but it is not. If that is right, then, in those circumstances, we should send an unambiguous message on the principle that we are seeking to secure and see the Bill go into its next stage in Committee.

Let me turn now to the use of a private Member’s Bill. In my former role as deputy general-secretary of the Transport and General Workers’ Union, I chaired a coalition that took the Gangmasters (Licensing) Bill into law to establish the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. I saw at first hand the shameful treatment of those who worked for gangmasters in agriculture and in fisheries. What was so fascinating about that experience was that we built an extraordinary coalition from plough to plate—from the supermarkets to the National Farmers’ Union. One would hope that there would be a read-across in modern times. We had progressive gangmasters who were saying that they wanted fair treatment for all in the industry, because, without it, they would be unable to secure fair competition. I have had employers say to me, “We do not accept that the rogue should be allowed to undercut the reputable as well as treating workers shamefully.”

Another characteristic of that whole remarkable process was the cross-party approach. I pay tribute to Gillian Shephard, a former Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, for the work that she did and for working with us. She would say, “I am not sure about that, Jack.”, or, “I would like to propose that.” Sometimes, there was vigorous debate, but we were united on the principle and, as a consequence, what we saw was the most complex private Member’s Bill in 30 years pass into law. It saw the licensing of gangmasters, making it a criminal offence for anyone to use an unlicensed gangmaster. Ultimately, the consensus was buttressed by the tragedy at Morecambe bay. To this day, all of us remember that as one of the most grotesque examples of the exploitation of working people in the history of this country.

I tell that story because, as we are seeing today, there was a consensus. People said, Hang on a second, this is not right.” There was a determination to act on it—to do it. Indeed, a Conservative colleague said to me, “Dammit, do it.” Why is there resistance to this Bill going forward to the next stages? It is the vehicle that permits that very necessary debate to take place.

Let me say two things in conclusion. I have 40 years’ experience in the world of work. I have been personally involved in the striking of very difficult deals to protect workers and to secure the long-term interests of their workplace: a four-year-pay freeze at one particular car company; and major changes to terms and conditions of employment at an engineering company. There were also significant changes in an aerospace company, but they were made as a consequence of dialogue, debate and necessity. A consensus was created and, ultimately, some big changes were made.

I live in the real world where, sometimes, we face immensely challenging sets of circumstances where action is necessary. That has been the history over many years in the world of work, and in the practice of the union in particular. I distinguish between that on the one hand and this practice that we are discussing today, which no one has defended. Currently, as things stand in British law, there is an ability to put workers up against the wall and say, “Dammit, we will cut your terms and conditions of employment. If you don’t like it, we will fire you. If you then want to be rehired, we will take you back, but on very different terms and conditions of employment.” That is fundamentally wrong. There have been some interesting contributions today, but I say to Members on the Government Benches: how do we begin to justify not taking this opportunity to act? What kind of message does it send to our constituents and the country? If we believe there is that which is wrong—practices that I think are downright immoral—let us send that message, see the Bill go forward today, debate it during the next stages and do the right thing by our country and British workers.