Covid-19: Future UK-EU Relationship

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[John Lamont]

I completely agree. The points that the SNP’s Westminster leader made earlier could have been made by anybody during the campaign about whether we should leave or remain in the EU; Nigel Farage would be proud of the arguments that he articulated. I am pleased that the hon. Lady is nodding wholeheartedly; it was a very good Farage argument that was put forward by Mr Blackford.

Let me move on to reiterate the support that has been made available by the UK Government and what that means from a practical perspective for Scots. These are not abstract sums of money that have no bearing on everyday lives in Scotland; these are people’s jobs and livelihoods, and the economic wellbeing of our families. Some 800,000 jobs in Scotland have been saved so far during the pandemic, highlighting the strength of our Union. The coronavirus job retention scheme has furloughed 628,000 Scottish jobs, and the UK Government have spent £425 million on supporting 146,000 self-employed people in Scotland through the self-employment income support scheme.

Of course, when talking about jobs, it is worth remembering that nearly four times as many jobs in Scotland are linked to trade with the rest of the United Kingdom as with the European Union. The Fraser of Allander Institute estimates that around 545,000 jobs in Scotland are supported by demand for our goods and services from the rest of the UK. That is why it is so important that we do everything we can to protect the strength of the UK single market, ensuring that businesses across the UK can continue to trade easily. Scottish exports to the rest of the UK are worth £51.2 billion, against £16.6 billion in EU exports. Whether they are in my constituency in the Scottish borders or in Eastleigh, West Bromwich, Brecon or Dudley, our businesses should be able to trade freely in every part of Britain.

The importance of the UK internal market is why the suggestion from Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, that she may close the Scotland-England border or impose quarantine restrictions on people from England is so damaging to Scotland and to our economy. After the First Minister’s announcement, I had tourism businesses, B&Bs and hotels contact me to report that their customers from the rest of the UK had started to cancel their bookings because they were so worried about the border being closed and quarantine restrictions being imposed. That should concern us all, because overnight trips from the rest of the UK were worth nearly £3 billion to Scotland in 2018.

To compound matters, we had the horrific scenes on the Scottish-English border in my constituency, on the A1 north of Berwick, of nationalist protesters shouting—and I quote—“Stay the F out” at English people travelling into Scotland. These racist protesters have admitted taking inspiration from the division stoked by the SNP politicians. They were inspired by comments by SNP politicians. One of the protesters has been pictured with Nicola Sturgeon and other senior SNP figures—

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Surely it cannot be allowed to stand that the hon. Gentleman effectively accuses SNP Members of stoking racism. The SNP condemns unreservedly any kind of anti-Englishness or any kind of racism directed at people from south of the border.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Gentleman knows—[Interruption.] Please do not talk so loudly while I am talking. The hon. Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) can heckle other people, but he cannot heckle me. Well, he can try. The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) knows that his point of order is not a point for the Chair, but a point of debate. The hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) will give way when he is ready to give way, and I look forward to hearing the retort from the hon. Member for Glasgow North.

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[Patrick Grady]

rose—

[Douglas Ross]

Attempt No. 2—I will give way to the SNP Chief Whip.

[Patrick Grady]

The hon. Gentleman knows that the principle of the devolution settlement is that if ain’t reserved—if it is not scheduled in the Scotland Act—it is devolved. The Government are scheduling these powers that should come from Europe, as he says, to the Scottish Parliament and they are grabbing them and keeping them here in Westminster. That is a power grab.

[Douglas Ross]

It is not. I was very clear, but I will try to be clearer for SNP Members if they need me to be. Can any SNP Member explain just one—not 10 or hundreds—power that the 129 MSPs and the Scottish Government currently have that during this “power grab” the UK Government will somehow take away? [Interruption.] None can; SNP Members simply cannot do it, because there is no power grab. As I said in my intervention, this and successive Conservative UK Governments have given more powers to the Scottish Parliament than any other and it is now one of the most powerful devolved Administrations anywhere in the world. The problem, more often than not, is not the lack of powers in the Scottish Parliament, but the lack of desire, will and vision on the part of the Scottish Government to use those powers to the best of their abilities. That is really the crux of the argument.

I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber missed my opening remarks, but I want to come back to his motion, on which the House will divide later. It is about the transition period, the EU and the UK Government. It seems strange to have this debate after the deadline set by the EU and the UK to decide whether to have an extension to the transition period. A decision was taken by the UK Government not to seek an extension and the EU Commissioner said of that decision:

“I take this as a definite conclusion of this discussion”.

The EU Commissioner who responded to the UK Government’s decision has decided that that is a definitive conclusion of this matter and I wish the SNP would accept it as such.

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[Douglas Ross]

I will give way as many times as hon. Members like. Eeny meeny—I will give way to the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady).

[Patrick Grady]

Just before the hon. Gentleman brings his remarks to a conclusion, I just wondered whether, with “independent coastal state”, “most powerful devolved Parliament”, “barriers at the border” and “broad shoulders of the Union”, I can get the prize for Ross bingo.

[Douglas Ross]

I think Blackford bingo has a bit more of a ring to it. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman can think of something that rhymes with Ross for the next debate—[Interruption.] I said Ross.

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[Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)]

Here we go again: another SNP debate, another debate on Brexit. I rise today, surprisingly enough, to oppose the motion in the name of the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), but I do so in a particularly generous and forgiving mood. It was Oscar Wilde who said, “We should always forgive our opponents, because nothing annoys them so much.” So I forgive the Scottish National party for bringing before the House today this motion on, frankly, a false and flawed assumption: that the covid-19 pandemic has disrupted the Government’s negotiations with the European Union to the point that businesses will be left, as the Scottish Government argue in the document described in the motion, with less time to prepare than previously anticipated. That is quite simply not the case. The process has continued throughout the pandemic, with civil servants working from home and the negotiations taking place virtually.

SNP Members are not the only people to be worried about the efficiency or the productivity of people working from home, but if they truly believe that it is impossible to conduct effective negotiations remotely, that does prompt the question why they were so insistent that we could function effectively as MPs under the virtual Parliament arrangements, which the SNP fought so hard to keep. Indeed, on 8 June in this very place, the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) made a strong and eloquent case for retaining remote working and hybrid arrangements, because they were working properly and should be brought back “in full”. I do not believe for a minute that he believes that it should be one rule for us and another for other people, but I do agree with him that remote working does actually work well, and our negotiating teams have been demonstrating that every day with their continued important work on exiting the European Union.

[Patrick Grady]

Of course, it is unfortunate that we do not have remote participation, because far more SNP Members would have wanted to take part in this debate if they had been able to contribute via the remote screens. If Brexit is heading towards being such a success, as the hon. Gentleman claims, can he explain the opinion polls showing that people in Scotland are moving towards independence by a substantial majority? Are the polls wrong? Are the people misguided? Or is it actually that the misguiding principles are coming from the Conservative Benches?

[Andrew Bowie]

I would happily stand and debate opinion polls and their trajectory, but there is only one poll that truly matters, and that is when people get to the ballot box. I am sure the hon. Gentleman would agree that the SNP only managed to get 45% of the vote in December. That is a fantastic total and a very strong result, but it shows that 55% of the Scottish population voted for parties that want to remain in the United Kingdom—a United Kingdom that is, I am afraid, because we believe in democracy, leaving the European Union this year.

Throughout the Brexit debate, there has been a false assumption that the status quo was one of the options that remained available to us. That was never true and has never been less true that it is today. The European Union has been hit just as hard by the pandemic as the UK has, and it will have to make difficult decisions about how to respond to the economic effects, exactly as we will. Our staying in the transitional arrangements with the EU, when the EU is rightly not factoring British interests into its plans for recovery, does not make sense. We need all the flexibility available to us to respond to the economic damage caused by the pandemic, and staying inside the EU’s one-size-fits-all framework is simply not conducive to that.

We have had this debate over and over again for the past three to four years. What this country, and businesses in this country, needs is certainty, not more dither and delay. It is disappointing and of serious detriment to the interests of the people of Scotland that the SNP has not yet learned how negotiations work. If the past four years have taught us anything, it is that without firm deadlines, negotiations grind to a halt. That is precisely why deadlines exist—to ensure that important tasks are completed in a timely fashion. I am sure that Opposition Members visit schools in their constituencies from time to time, as I do. The next time they visit I invite them to ask teachers how likely it is that their students’ coursework would materialise were endless extensions on offer.

The leader of the Scottish National party in this place, the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber, spoke today about the importance of economic certainty and putting the economy first. My goodness me! It was a bigger conversion than Paul on the road to Damascus to finally hear the leader of the SNP making our arguments for us. Surely it means that the SNP has finally accepted our argument against breaking up the United Kingdom, given the huge economic cost that would bring. If the economy comes before all other concerns, the case for Scottish independence is as dead as a dodo.

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[Iain Stewart]

No, we have heard enough from the hon. Gentleman over the course of the afternoon. I am going to reply to some of the points that have been made in the debate.

We have heard the great passion about both referendums in 2014 and 2016. Brexit and Scottish separation aroused great passions, but we have to respect the results of both referendums, and it is deeply patronising to say that people did not know what they were voting for in either case. The SNP says that the people of Scotland did not know about Brexit. I invite it to look at page 217 of its prospectus for independence, where the prospect of Brexit was raised. Is the SNP saying that the Scottish people were too stupid to read it and understand it? We should respect the result of the 2014 referendum, and we should respect the result of the 2016 referendum.

Many of my hon. Friends made this point, but I particularly highlight the contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Hyndburn (Sara Britcliffe) and for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey), who are absolutely right that they are now representing what their constituents voted for, unlike their predecessors. It is disappointing that there are so few Members from the official Opposition here. What is their Brexit policy now? Are they going to respect the result? Are they going to join us in the Lobby to make sure that we do not extend the transition period at the end of tonight, or is their absence today indicative of the fact that they still secretly want to stop Brexit, but dare not admit it?

Let me turn to the issue of extending the transition. As many hon. Members have said—especially the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine)—the Brexit debate is over. If the SNP truly believed that, we would not be having this debate today. We do not need, as my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton (Chris Clarkson) said, a “neverendum”. Business does not need the psychodrama of the last couple of years to endure. Those who say that we will not get a trade deal with the EU are probably the very same people who said that we would not get a Brexit deal concluded at all. We did, and we will.

Let us imagine if this motion today achieved its aims. What would be the consequences? Cost—what would we have to pay to the EU to support its covid recovery programmes as well as all its other expenditure, and as well as our own? Has the SNP quantified that, and if not, what financial support for business and public services would it be willing to see forgone in order that that bill would be footed? What new laws and regulations over which neither this House nor Holyrood had any say would businesses and organisations have to abide by? What would be the cost for the fishing communities of Scotland of being forced to remain part of the wasteful and disastrous common fisheries policy? As my hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) rightly said, the European Union will not be thinking of the United Kingdom’s interests when shaping its future policies.

Would extending the deadline make it any more likely that we will reach a conclusion of these matters? I very much doubt it. Having a deadline concentrates minds. If we extend the transition period by a year, I would put serious money on our being back in this Chamber for another debate about extending it for another period. Negotiations are ongoing with renewed vigour, and I do not agree with the prophets of doom who say that we cannot reach a satisfactory conclusion. After all, we are not asking for something new. There is already a trade agreement between the EU and Canada, which we simply want to replicate.

I reject the characterisation of the UK outside the EU as some insular, narrow-minded, protectionist little island—far from it. We want to be an open, welcoming, tolerant, ambitious and free-trading country with global horizons. My hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho) was on the money when she referred to our generous offer to the people of Hong Kong to find a home here in the face of Chinese oppression. That is what this country is about.

There will be huge trading opportunities for businesses in Scotland and across the UK as a result of the trade deals we strike. The hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock), who characterised me as “cannon fodder”, mentioned the wine trade in her constituency. I used to live in her constituency, and I was very pleased that the headquarters of the Scotch Malt Whisky Society was based there—it was my local. I want to see Scotch whisky exports go much further than they currently are, and the trade deals that we strike will enable that. That is the sort of ambition we should have.

While there are huge opportunities, threats remain. The right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber spent much of his speech detailing what he saw as the potential disruptions to trade between Scotland and the EU, but what about the disruptions to trade between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom if he and his colleagues had their way? They have set their face against the internal market proposals without even seeing them. They walked away from the engagement discussions that this Government were having with the Scottish Government. As I have said, these proposals will guarantee the rights of Scottish firms to trade and source their products across the UK. The last thing Scottish business needs as we rebuild post covid are the barriers, costs, division and confusion that another independence referendum and separation would entail.

Of course, covid has posed huge challenges for us all. I just find it astonishing that some Opposition Members seek to trivialise and moan about the support that the United Kingdom Government have given. The hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) said that Scotland got less than 1% of the package announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor last week. Did she not see that Scottish businesses and people will benefit from the job retention bonus, the kick-start programme and many other schemes? Did she not factor that in? I am afraid that I do not accept this whining, moaning trivialisation of the support that this United Kingdom gives. If ever we needed an example to show that this United Kingdom is greater than the sum of its parts, this response to covid proves it. Of course there are challenges, to all parts of the Scottish economy. My hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) told me some concerning things about the impact on Scottish tourism as a result of the measures and announcements of the Scottish First Minister.If we ever needed an example to show that this United Kingdom is greater than the sum of its parts, this response to covid proves it. Of course there are challenges, to all parts of the Scottish economy. My hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) told me some concerning things about the impact on Scottish tourism as a result of the measures and announcements of the Scottish First Minister.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.