European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Pat McFadden and Chris Leslie

Report stage: First Day: House of Commons
Tuesday 16th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Leslie]

No one is more proud of being a member of this fine body than I am. Parliament is a great institution: I would say that it is one of the greatest democratic institutions in the world. We are perfectly capable of dealing with many of these issues, but the hon. Gentleman unwittingly went against his own argument when he said “almost” all the rights in the charter were covered or duplicated in primary legislation. Not all of them are covered, as was made clear in some of the evidence that the Select Committee heard.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Is there not a fundamental inconsistency here? The Government’s reason for not including the charter is that those rights are covered in domestic law, so it would not add anything, but they propose to include thousands of other directives and rules, many of which we would also be unlikely to change in domestic law. The very same argument could be applied to those thousands of other rules that the Bill goes out of its way to incorporate. The Government say, “We do not want to change the labour laws; we do not want to change the environmental rules; we do not want to change the consumer rights.” However, they apply a different logic to the charter. Why does my hon. Friend think that is?

[Mr Leslie]

The logic of the Government is a mystery sometimes, and I wonder whether the Solicitor General actually secretly agrees that these are important rights that need to be defended and that the Government have got themselves into a bit of a pickle, possibly because they drafted this Bill before the general election and therefore before they saw some of the consequences of these things.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Pat McFadden and Chris Leslie

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Monday 6th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

Yes, and, again, we have heard no strategic alternatives from the Government and have no idea what their plan will be.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Given that the Government have said that they will pull out of Euratom, because it is part of the EU, is not the logical extension of their position to pull out of all those agencies? If so, why does my hon. Friend think they do not want to face up to it? Is it because they do not want to face up to the cost of duplicating the work of 30-odd agencies?

[Chris Leslie]

I do not think Ministers know what to say about some of these questions. They hope that because the issues are fairly low level and very specialist, nobody will spot them, but they will start to affect very many people. Myriad issues will arise.

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Debate between Pat McFadden and Chris Leslie

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

That broadens things out into a whole new terrain, but suffice it to say, we should be able to trust our banks. We should be able to know that all these issues will be going on safely. To be fair to the banks—I do not say that often—some of their systems are able to cope, and complaints mechanisms are in place to deal with these things.

This is just about the customer being able to grasp and understand what is going on. The grey mist descends on many constituents—and, heaven knows, on many hon. Members, as we can see—at the mention of financial services, and that is without getting into pensions and some of those issues. Basic bank account services are incredibly important and we need the Government to say a little more than warm words in their response on this issue. I commend the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire on her campaign and we are very much behind the spirit of the changes she suggests, hence our new clause 12.

Finally, I wish to deal with new clause 10, which relates to the sale of state-owned bank assets. We feel that before a sale takes place of assets in the ownership of Her Majesty’s Treasury—we are very much focused on the Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds at the moment —the Treasury ought to set out clearly a report discussing the manner in which the best interests of the taxpayer will be protected in the sale, and the expected impact that any sale might have on competition for customers and on the rate of economic growth. That should be accompanied by a proper appraisal of the options for potential structural change in the banks concerned, including: whether there should be any changes to the division between retail banking and investment banking in those institutions; whether some asset classes need to be held back—this is sometimes characterised as a good bank/bad bank split; and, crucially, the impact of the sale on the creation of a regional banking network. We think that is essential.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend will know that the banking commission recommended having a proper study of the good bank/bad bank option for RBS. Does he think that in advance of that study it might help if the Government exercised a little more care in their stewardship of RBS, given that their disastrous political meddling of the past month has resulted in a fall in the share price of some 20%, the bank losing a chief executive without a plan being put in place for replacing him, and confidence among investors being lost by the Government’s handling of the bank?

[Chris Leslie]

My right hon. Friend is completely correct about that. If the British public realised what has happened to the value of that taxpayer stake in RBS, they would be appalled. Today’s figures show that £2 billion-plus has been taken off the value of RBS since the botched handling of the departure of the chief executive, Stephen Hester. That mishandling forced the Chancellor to back down from a foolhardy dash towards a fire sale, which we know was part of the plan from the conversations that Sir Philip Hampton, the chairman of RBS, let slip in comments to journalists around that time. Labour Members, however, are absolutely focused on the need for the taxpayer to get good value for money, to get our money back. That is entirely possible. Stephen Hester revealed the flaw in the Chancellor’s strategy for a hasty sale driven by the electoral timetable when he gave an interview to the BBC last month. When asked whether taxpayers would get back their £45.6 billion, he answered:

“RBS is capable of being worth more than what the government paid for the shares”.

When asked again whether it is possible for us to get our money back, he said:

“RBS is capable of that and I would be disappointed if over the passage of time that that won’t be the case.”

Economic Growth

Debate between Pat McFadden and Chris Leslie

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Andy Sawford) and my many other hon. Friends for their consistently strong arguments about the shortcomings of the Gracious Speech. It is a Queen’s Speech that lacks vision, substance and coherence. It lacks any answers to the big challenges that Britain faces. As such, it is entirely typical of this pitiful excuse for a Government. It is as though they could not be bothered to think through the legislation that is needed to get our economy moving, perhaps because their minds were elsewhere. We know where their minds were. Downing street has been caught in the headlights. It is fixated with internal party management and is frantically trying to hold it all together, when what we really need is a Prime Minister and a Chancellor who can focus relentlessly on the weaknesses in our economy and on the action needed to kick-start growth. They are so distracted, however, that they have lost sight of the things that matter most to the British people.

Youth unemployment still stands at nearly 1 million, and the Work programme is so useless that the number of young people on the dole for more than a year has tripled since it was introduced. At the spending review in 2010, the Chancellor said that there would be at least 6% economic growth by now, but we have seen barely more than 1%. As my hon. Friends have pointed out, house building is at its lowest level since the 1920s, yet the Government housing scheme offers a better subsidy for second home buyers than for building new homes. The construction sector is collapsing on this Government’s watch, but only seven projects from the list of 576 in their infrastructure plan are actually completed or operational. That is pathetic.

The Government promised to help 400,000 businesses with a national insurance holiday for new firms, but they have helped barely 5% of them. They are now having to replace that legislation. We are experiencing the slowest economic recovery for more than 100 years, and deficit reduction has ground firmly to a halt. When we hear the Government claim that they have cut the deficit by a third, we must remember that it was the same last year as it was the year before, and that it will be the same again this year. It is no wonder that they have lost the triple A credit ratings that they promised to preserve. It is a simple lesson: if the economy is flatlining, they should not be surprised if the deficit stubbornly remains high.

The Government are either too weak to admit that they have made mistakes or too distracted to see it for themselves. As a result, we are left with a legislative agenda that fails to rise to the challenges facing our country. These Ministers see consumers and businesses that lack confidence and they see weak economic demand, but their Government’s response is to pull back from the role that they should play, pull the rug from beneath the feet of those who are trying to move forward, pull away the safety net from families facing hardship and pull up the drawbridge against the entrepreneurs and investment that our country needs.

Where is the jobs Bill to ensure that all the long-term unemployed are offered a decent job opportunity on at least the minimum wage, with the private sector in partnership with the Government? We could do all that, and cover the costs, if only the Chancellor would stop being so weak towards the banks and instead make them pay their fair share. Where is the finance Bill to reverse the unfair tax cuts for the richest 1% and to help to make work pay with a 10p starting rate of income tax? Where are the measures that my hon. Friends have so eloquently called for to tackle rip-off energy bills, extortionate train fares and rogue landlords? Where is the action, the drive, the activity? Nowhere, because the Government are frozen to the spot.

It says everything about the hollowness of this Government that the Queen’s Speech debate today has been totally dominated by one subject that is not even in it. Where once we had a Conservative Prime Minister who boasted of her convictions, tonight we have a Conservative Cabinet united only by their abstention. As that Prime Minister once said, this is not leadership but “followership”. The truth is that this Queen’s Speech is not a legislative programme of a functioning Government; it is a sticking-plaster programme trying desperately to hold things together while Conservative MPs kick lumps out of the Prime Minister.

A week ago, the Prime Minister did not think that an EU referendum was important enough to put in the Queen’s Speech, but a week later we find that it is the first Bill that the Government have published. If they want a referendum, why are they not supporting the amendment; if they do not want a referendum, why have they drafted their Bill?

The draft Bill that the Government have rushed out—I do not know whether the Chief Secretary or the Chancellor had a hand in the very technical drafting of the one side of A4—had nothing to do with consulting the public; it was all about silencing the Conservative party’s internal divisions. They are not so much a coalition as a contradiction. There are three parties in this Government: the two faces of the Conservative party in league with the Liberal Democrats—perhaps best represented by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, to whom I wish many happy returns today. Hon. Members will be interested to know that this right hon. Gentleman spent a decade of his life before entering this House making the case for a federal Europe. What a triumph it is for the Government Whips facing a difficult vote on Europe that the final speech in support of the Government’s programme should come from the former chief spokesman for the campaign to join the euro. You couldn’t make it up, Madam Deputy Speaker. The sad truth is that this Government are too weak, too divided and too distracted; they are fiddling on about Europe while the economy burns.

[Mr McFadden]

On the subject of the Government’s tactics over the rushed, panicked publication of this referendum Bill, does my hon. Friend agree that today’s debate shows that the tactic has already failed because during the debate the people who wanted this were already asking the Government to go further by having the referendum this side of the general election rather than after the next one?

[Chris Leslie]

The Prime Minister said yesterday, “No more concessions; that is the line in the sand; this is as far as they will go.” It is amazing to think, though, that he has to keep feeding the beast. The problem is that Conservative Members are carrying on a bit like the strange man in the corner of that country pub endlessly moaning about the dreadful threat of outsiders and incomers. I have to tell them that if they spend all their time trying to be like UKIP, they should not be surprised when people vote for the real thing.

We are left with a Government increasingly out of touch with the real problems facing real families across Britain. Tonight, it is those families that are paying the price: higher taxes because growth is stagnant and lower living standards because wages are falling. Every year that goes by while our economy stands still and while our Government are divided and distracted, our international competitors get further and further ahead.

The Queen’s Speech lists 15 Bills that look as though full time has been called for this Parliament, not just the end of the first half of it. The Government’s legislative agenda, supposedly to drive Britain forward, did not even make it from Downing Street to the Cabinet Office before running out of support. We should look at their child care strategy, stumbling in more directions than a toddler learning to walk. They are not going to convince the public that it is sensible to have one nursery worker looking after six two-year-olds on their own if they cannot even persuade their own Deputy Prime Minister. Surely, the Prime Minister of all people must know how difficult it is single-handedly to watch over a group of immature and disobedient trouble-makers, constantly throwing tantrums. They cannot even manage the basics.

Just at the moment when we need a strong voice for the United Kingdom arguing for the reforms and change of direction we need across the European economy, we get a Prime Minister saying one thing, an Education Secretary who is not here and a Defence Secretary who is not here saying another, while his Back Benchers are revolting and the Deputy Prime Minister is wielding his veto. Our country and our partners deserve better than that. Britain needs to be leading in Europe, not leaving Europe, and the Prime Minister should be brave enough to say it. He should stand up to those who are undermining his authority. On the very day when he was extolling the virtues of a new EU trade deal with the United States, his own Ministers implied that they would rather turn their backs on that £10 billion advantage.

The amendment has blown the last semblance of unity in the coalition to smithereens. The Prime Minister could not even tell his own troops to vote against it, so we have ended up with the absurd spectacle of Ministers being told to abstain while the Prime Minister is supposedly “chillaxed” about the rest of them supporting it. The Prime Minister should not be relaxed when those on his own side express regrets about his own Government and his own Queen’s Speech; he should be embarrassed by it. He should not “chill” at the thought; he should be chilled by it. He should have led from the start and asserted his authority, but he is too weak, and his party is too divided and distracted to be brought into line.

The fact is that this in/out, in/out, hokey-cokey referendum policy sends all the wrong signals. The Prime Minister’s party is left leaderless, and the country is left rudderless. Make no mistake, Madam Deputy Speaker: there is a real-world price to be paid for this weakness, and it will be paid in jobs, with inward investors left mystified about whether or not they would have access to a single market with 500 million customers if they came here.

When will the Conservatives realise that the top priority for this country must be the strength of our economy, not their obsession with Europe? The Prime Minister once said:

“Instead of talking about the things that most people care about… we were banging on about Europe.”

They are back to banging on, and on, and on—not about jobs, not about growth, not about recovery, but about Europe, yesterday, today and tomorrow. They are too distracted to see what needs to be done, too divided to agree on how to do it, and too weak to take the action that the country needs. Weak, divided, distracted: we see a Government who are slowly imploding under the weight of their own contradictions.

Britain, at home and in Europe, needs a Government who are strong enough to make the tough decisions for our country’s future, united in seeing those decisions through, and focused on securing growth and recovery. That is the only genuine way of improving our national finances. Britain needs that one nation Government and we need it now, but sadly, with this Queen’s Speech, with this Government and with this Prime Minister, Britain must wait.

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Debate between Pat McFadden and Chris Leslie

Monday 11th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sorry that the Chancellor has not been able to join us for the debate. The Bill may be called the Clark-Javid Act, but it will certainly not be called the Osborne Act given his disappearance.

As the Financial Secretary said, the global financial crisis has cast a long shadow. Our recovery to pre-crisis levels of economic output has still not been achieved because of the drag anchor of the Chancellor’s austerity programme. The high-risk, high-reward culture of worldwide banking systems required a taxpayer bail-out; profits were retained privately in the good times, but losses fell on the shoulders of the public when things turned bad. We cannot allow a repetition of those risks to the taxpayer in future, which is why banks must be reformed in the UK, across the EU and across the globe.

The Bill has its roots in the 2009 G20 Pittsburgh summit when world leaders decided to insist on tougher loss-absorbing capital rules for banks. Britain’s financial services sector is larger than most, and with the greatest financial centre on the planet in the City of London we must take additional steps to guard against the risk of future collapse. The Financial Services Act 2012 sought to address regulatory shortcomings, but the jury is out on whether the Bank of England will be inherently stronger than the Financial Services Authority.

The advent of the FSA in 1998 was a step forward from the dark ages of self-regulation, but that regulatory framework was not capable of policing the extreme risks and dangers of a rapidly expanding global banking sector, interdependent from country to country. We agree with the need to introduce prudential regulation and greater systemic oversight, but that theory has not yet been translated into reality. Although there were regulatory shortcomings, we should be in no doubt that primary culpability rests with the banks, which should not be allowed to get away without reform.

The Vickers Banking Commission concluded that structural firewalls are needed to supplement capital safety buffers, which is undoubtedly true. With this Bill some of the legislative underpinnings for those firewalls will gradually take shape, and to the extent that it enables the ring-fencing of retail from investment banking, we welcome that. However, the Bill merely provides the scaffolding for the basic building blocks that will come at a later date, largely in secondary legislation by Treasury order. It focuses only on structural scaffolding, not on wholesale reform of the standard and culture of the banking sector—something we hope that the cross-party Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards will help focus on to help fortify the Bill in due course. As the Banking Commission points out, it is perhaps not the beginning of the end of banking reform, but the end of the beginning.

The timing and process for consideration of the Bill, and the programme motion before the House, propose a ridiculously compressed Commons scrutiny process and for the Bill to be out of Committee by 18 April. As I said earlier, that shows total disregard for the parliamentary process and flies in the face of the Banking Commission’s careful recommendations. The Bill is already a cursory framework because it is largely a string of enabling powers for the Treasury to arrange for ring-fencing through secondary legislation. The Government established the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards to ensure that recommendations could be added to the Bill. So far, however, we have had only part 1 of that commission’s points about structural questions.

The Government now expect the Commons to consider this partial Bill in Committee without having the final report on standards and culture from the parliamentary commission. That is treating the Commons as though this is merely a tick-box exercise and a part of the process that does not matter, and there is no need to scrutinise the final proposals. Dropping in late additions to the Bill on Report or—more likely—during consideration in the Lords, is not an appropriate way to legislate. As I said, the parliamentary commission recommended a three-month gap between publication of the Bill and commencement of the Committee stage, but the Government rejected that idea.

[Mr McFadden]

My hon. Friend said, I think, that the timetable was inappropriate. Does he agree that it may also be unwise, given that if the amendments are moved in the other place, the first three speakers in that debate are likely to be the former Conservative Chancellor, the former Chair of the Treasury Committee, and the Archbishop of Canterbury?

[Chris Leslie]

Recently I have been looking at a number of Thatcher quotes, given that the Prime Minister mentioned TINA—there is no alternative—which hon. Members will remember. Another famous quote from Lady Thatcher was, “Always leave yourself a way out”, and I wonder whether the emollient approach taken by the Financial Secretary is because he realises that when there is inadequate scrutiny in this House, the questions go to the other place and it is likely that the Government will have to back down on some of these matters. Perhaps he is listening to the advice of Baroness Thatcher on some of these issues.

It is not adequate to expect, as the Minister suggested, that we will be able to scrutinise the Bill sufficiently on the Floor of the House on Report. As he knows, with the knives that come into effect during considerations on Report, one often finds that amendments are put without a full debate. It is a different process from the Commons Committee stage. The programme motion should reflect the right of the Commons to scrutinise the full version of the Bill, and that is not the version we have before the House today. If the Government were serious about this issue, the Chancellor would be here. Clearly, our downgraded Chancellor has downgraded the banking reform Bill.