European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend, having been a Minister in the Department for Exiting the European Union, knows this subject in great detail and he is spot on. We cannot be in any customs territory like that because it is a breach of the promise to the people, and we will never do trade deals around the world. Sadly, the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Sir Vince Cable) is not in his place; it is pathetic to say that we cannot do trade deals with India, America and China, when we are the great international country and these people want to buy from us. We will not be able to do this if we are in some sort of customs territory.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his remarks so far. Has he heard, as I have, various Government Ministers assuring Unionist MPs from Northern Ireland that we have nothing to worry about, even though they do not like the agreement themselves? In the Lobby this afternoon, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland told us that she did not like what was put forward. When we put it to her that this could only be annulled by the Republic of Ireland, the EU and the UK together, she had no answer. The fact of the matter is that this is what it means; the backstop will be there forever.

[Mr Paterson]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. There is no way out of the backstop. As we heard from the Attorney General yesterday, whether we support this is ultimately a political decision because we do not get out unless the European Union agrees, and it is not going to let us go while we are stumping up the cash, nor while it has us trapped in an arrangement whereby it can impose law on us that is perfidious and can damage our economy but benefits the EU, which has a £100 billion surplus with us.

Before we get off the question of the economy, let me say that so many Members who have spoken this evening think that the EU is the most wondrous organisation and that the economy is booming in Europe. There is one continent in the world with a slower rate of growth: Antarctica. The European Commission says that 90% of world growth is going to be outside the EU, and that is where we want to be. But we have got hung up on the Northern Ireland border, where there is already a border that is handled with modern technology. The turnover—incredibly important locally—is tiny, at 4.9% of Northern Ireland’s sales. That is 0.2% of UK GDP and 1.6% of the Republic of Ireland’s exports north. This can all be done with modern techniques.

I have engaged with real-world experts at an organisation called CLECAT, which represents—[Interruption.] Opposition Members are laughing. I think that an organisation with a membership of 19,000 customs brokers and freight forwarders that handles 80% of customs transaction in Europe knows a lot more than the Labour Front Bench. CLECAT recommends very clearly that we should move on. We should recognise that borders are no longer inspection points, but tax points. Inspection happens before goods are shipped. Earlier, we heard about just-in-time delivery. One thousand trucks will turn up at the border tomorrow with car parts, and they have all been pre-cleared. Pre-clearance will carry on. The border inspection point in Rotterdam is 40 km from where the containers land. If that were the distance from Newry, we would be looking at somewhere well north of Lisburn, into the suburbs of Belfast. Looking at the most contentious products—food and agri-tech—landing in Rotterdam, there are 30,000 containers a year, and they are all inspected. They go to the border inspection post, some for less than a minute, and 97% or 98% of them whizz through. Of the remaining 2% or 3%, only 10% are physically opened up. People have this ludicrous idea of borders—that we have a man in a tricorn hat stopping the stagecoach with a ladle and testing the brandy. That does not happen. Goods are tested in advance. They are pre-cleared. We have modern systems like REX—the registered exporter system—on rules of origin. We have Transit, and records that are so accurate that I saw when I went to Larne that only two goats went through there in 2016. That is the sort of modern system that could work not just on the Northern Ireland border but at Dover-Calais.

We must vote against these ghastly proposals. This is absolutely appalling, and I am delighted that so many Members from across the House are going to vote against it. So what is the alternative? The answer is to go back to what President Tusk offered us on 7 March—a wide-ranging free trade deal that foundered on the issue of the Northern Ireland border. Using existing techniques and technologies within the existing customs code, we can resolve the problem of the border and go back and take up that offer. It was very clear at the meeting with Monsieur Barnier and his senior colleagues that that offer is still on the table.

The European Union will have to face the fact that if this proposal goes down, as I hope it will this time next week, we should go straight back and take up that offer. I am glad to see that the Secretary of State is here. He should go straight back and do that. We can solve the problem of our borders. We can immediately start negotiating for this wide-ranging free trade deal. Just to show that we are serious, he should also make it very clear that we are going to make preparations for what “Project Fear” calls no deal, which means World Trade Organisation terms. Those are the terms on which 164 countries conduct 98% of world trade. It is absolutely childish to describe this as “leaping off a cliff” and a “catastrophe”.

We should show that we are deadly serious because obviously we are not going to get the free trade deal done by March. If we have a short temporary period in which we have set up a genuine agreement with the European Union, then we can invoke article 24—which I am not sure many people have heard of—of the general agreement on tariffs and trade, which enables us to go on at the current rate of zero tariffs for a reasonable length of time, potentially up to 10 years, so we can carry on exactly as we are. Goods will carry on moving. We will prosper and grow at a tremendous rate, as has been proposed by various forecasters. That is the alternative and that is the way ahead.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Thursday 16th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to stress the supreme importance of encouraging the growth of pollinators all round, and our healthy bees plan provides £1.3 million to fund the NBU, with its inspection, training and diagnostic services, which encourage people to take up beekeeping.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In Northern Ireland, the predicament of the bees is just as critical as it is in England. Has the Secretary of State had any discussions with the Northern Ireland Assembly, and specifically the Minister responsible for this area, Michelle O’Neill, to ensure that the United Kingdom strategy is put in place across the whole of the United Kingdom, including England and the regions?

[Mr Paterson]

This issue is devolved, as the hon. Gentleman knows, but I will be having a meeting with the devolved Ministers very shortly, and bees and pollination will obviously be one of the issues we will discuss.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am in regular contact with Nelson McCausland, the relevant Minister, and he is optimistic that he will stick to the schedule, which will enable Northern Ireland to come on stream, as planned, with the Department for Work and Pensions here.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Many people in Northern Ireland view changes caused by welfare reform with increasing concern. Northern Ireland has had 30 years of a terrorist campaign. That has led to many people suffering disability, both physical and mental; 15,000 people in Northern Ireland are on incapacity benefit and employment and support allowance, and 180,000 people are on disability living allowance. Can the Secretary of State assure us that every step will be taken to ensure that the unique position of Northern Ireland is taken into account when it comes to the benefits system?

[Mr Paterson]

Nobody underestimates the terrible damage the troubles did to people physically and mentally, but it is worth reflecting on the fact that high rates of DLA are not unique to Northern Ireland; Merthyr Tydfil has a rate of 13%, which is very similar to that of Belfast. What I think is important is that for the first time each person will be treated as an individual, his circumstances will be taken into account and rehabilitation, re-education and training will be offered. That has not come about before.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s question. I spoke to the Chief Constable this morning, who confirmed that the team is investigating 3,268 deaths and that it is on target to finish as planned.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The HET investigated the murder of my cousin, Kenneth Smyth, on 10 December 1971—those on the street knew who committed the murder—and Lexie Cummings was murdered on 15 June 1982. HET investigations into both cases concluded that no action should be taken. The concern is that the investigations might not have been thorough, so does the Secretary of State accept that confidence needs to be instilled in the Unionist community and that the HET therefore has considerable work to do?

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful for that question. I do not entirely agree. The HET is impartial, and the latest polling commissioned on the reaction of the families is extraordinarily high: 90.5% said they were very satisfied or satisfied with the performance of the HET.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are far too many private conversations taking place in the Chamber. We need to be able to hear the Secretary of State.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Given the ease with which guns were produced at the Short Strand interface, does the Secretary of State understand the annoyance and anger at the fact that the inventory of the weapons destroyed by the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning was not made known? Does he agree that the people of Northern Ireland have a right to know the full extent of the destruction of weaponry that has taken place? The Conservatives and Labour have agreed on that, and the inventory has also been lodged in Washington.

[Mr Paterson]

I am fully aware of the concerns behind the hon. Gentleman’s question, but we have to take the advice of those very experienced independent professionals, who have pulled off an extraordinary task. I pay tribute to General de Chastelain and his colleagues for what they did, and if it is their professional opinion today that it would not be helpful to publish that inventory, we have to take that advice seriously, as do the Irish Government. That is why the inventory has been placed with the American Secretary of State, where it will rest. No one will see it until the British and Irish Governments together decide that the time is appropriate.

Murder of PC Ronan Kerr

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Monday 4th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question and I am happy to put on the record my wholehearted congratulations—I touched on this in my statement—of the work not just of the PSNI but of the Garda Siochana, who are working extremely closely. I think we should pay tribute to the co-operation we are getting from the Dublin Government, from both parties. I have talked to Eamon Gilmore—the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Tanaiste—and to Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence. Today, I also talked to Martin Callinan, the Commissioner, and I confirm that we are working extremely closely. My hon. Friend is right that there has been a succession of events, week after week; I would not want to comment today on whether they are linked to this one, but we are determined to work together and bear down on these dangerous people.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on his leadership at this time, which is much appreciated by MPs from Northern Ireland. We do not want to be dragged back to the past and the dark history that we had for many years. I am aware that there has been a large reduction in the number of police officers, which might have fallen to approximately 7,000. What steps will the Secretary of State be taking in relation to resources and training to ensure that the stipulated 7,500 figure is reached through the urgent and immediate training of officers to ensure that we have significant and adequate police coverage on the ground?

[Mr Paterson]

On police numbers, we have contributed major extra funds this year, as requested by the Chief Constable. I repeat what he said today:

“We have the resources, we have the resilience and we have the commitment.”

How he divides up the funds that have been provided to him and the Justice Minister is a matter for him. Those are operational matters and not for me to answer from here.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to the Chairman of the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs for his question. That has to be finally decided, but I would estimate that we should have a public consultation period of two to three months.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I associate myself with the comments of the Secretary of State on Ranger Dalzell. Across the House we are all well aware of the bravery and courage that all those young men show. We sympathise with his family at this time.

On VAT, shoppers from the Republic of Ireland coming across to Northern Ireland contribute greatly to the economy of Northern Ireland. The VAT increase has impacted directly on Northern Ireland, leading to a 10% reduction in sales and a 28% reduction in exports. What will the Secretary of State do to address that?

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments on Ranger Dalzell.

Cross-border taxation is an issue that we will consider as part of the paper. We are acutely aware of the ability of consumers to move their spending rapidly either way, depending on taxation.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful for that question. I am also pleased to send on my sympathies to the hon. Gentleman’s constituents who have been subject to such intolerable attacks, which, thankfully, have not caused death or injury. Last week the Chief Constable said:

“We are absolutely putting huge resources back in, we are going to sustain that next year and the year after until those responsible are brought to justice or they can be persuaded to give up.”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

10. What assessment he has made of the effects on the Northern Ireland fishing fleet of the operation of EU legislation on working time; and if he will make a statement.

Billy Wright Inquiry

Debate between Owen Paterson and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 14th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

We inherited a series of inquiries commissioned by the previous Government, and as the incoming Government all we can do is face up to them and publish them as swiftly as possible. In respect of this case, the inquiry was set the clear remit of looking into whether the British state colluded. It has run on at considerably more expense and for considerably longer than was originally planned, but we have immediately come forward and presented it to the House in the very narrow window of Parliament sitting for these two weeks in September, and the hon. Gentleman can therefore now read it at length and draw his own conclusions. I think we do have to separate the issue of process from the result, however, and I hope that some people will be reassured by this very detailed investigation of the case.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State clearly outlined the case, and he will understand the dissatisfaction that we Members from Northern Ireland have about it. The right hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Mr Woodward) and my right hon. Friends the Members for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) and for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) mentioned one of our concerns: the guns problem. If there were no guns in the prison, there would be nobody dead today. Can you, Secretary of State, assure us today that you will carry out a further investigation to find out how those guns were smuggled in? Is it your intention to do that, or are you just going to drop the whole thing today and forget about it?

[Mr Speaker]

May I very gently say to the hon. Gentleman that it is not my intention to do any of the things to which he referred? I am sure, however, that the Secretary of State will volunteer a response.