Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Oliver Dowden and Angela Rayner

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)]

I join the Deputy Prime Minister in paying tribute to the bravery of Sir Chris Hoy—he truly is an inspiration to us all. I also echo her comments about the train crash in Powys.

What is the Deputy Prime Minister’s definition of working people?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Let me start by welcoming the right hon. Gentleman to his new place. Today is our first exchange since he pushed for a July general election, and if his own side has not offered him a peerage, I certainly would have.

The definition of “working people” is the people who the Tory party have failed for the past 14 years.

[Sir Oliver Dowden]

The Deputy Prime Minister stood on a manifesto promising not to raise taxes on working people. It now appears that she cannot even define who working people are, so I will give her another go. There are 5 million small business owners in this country; are they working people?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I do not know how the shadow Deputy Prime Minister can stand there with a straight face when it was the small businesses—the working people of this country—that paid the price of the Conservatives crashing the economy, sending interest rates soaring. I think he needs to learn his own lessons in opposition.

[Sir Oliver Dowden]

I think the whole House will have heard the Deputy Prime Minister disregard 5 million hard-working small business owners. These are the publicans, the shopkeepers, the family running a local café. None of those count as working people to her.

Labour gave a clear commitment not to raise national insurance. The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies has given its view on this. It says that raising employer national insurance is

“a tax…on working people.”

Even the Chancellor said that raising employer national insurance was a “jobs tax” that will

“make each new recruit more expensive and increase the costs to business”.

So does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with the IFS and her own Chancellor?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I remember what the Conservatives said to business. What was it? “Eff business”, whereas this party held an international investment summit last week, which put about £63 billion into our economy. We are pro-business, pro-worker and getting on with fixing the mess that they left behind.

[Sir Oliver Dowden]

I think we can take it from that answer that the Deputy Prime Minister does not agree with the IFS, and I suppose it should not come as a surprise that she does not agree with her Chancellor, but does she agree with this:

“Working people will pay…when employers pass on the hike in national insurance”?

Those are her words, so does she at least agree with herself?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

What I am incredibly proud of is that this week, this Government brought in a new employment Bill that will raise the living standards of 10 million workers. Would the shadow Deputy Prime Minister like to apologise for the hike in taxes—they are at a 70-year high—that he put on working people, the crashing of the economy and the disaster that he left behind?

[Sir Oliver Dowden]

The Deputy Prime Minister mentions her policy. Let us be clear: it is a £5 billion hit to the British economy, and that is her own assessment. Following these answers, there will be millions of working people even more worried about the tax rises coming their way in next week’s Budget.

However, as this is our last exchange across the Dispatch Box, I would like to turn to somebody I hope we can all agree is a hard-working person—His Majesty the King. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me in sending him best wishes ahead of the Commonwealth summit in Samoa? In particular, will she confirm that this Government recognise the unique role played by the Commonwealth, and will she commit to deepening that relationship, so that, under His Majesty’s leadership, we build upon possibly the greatest legacy of the late Queen?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I will miss our exchanges—the battle of the gingers, the late nights voting—and in that spirit, I will agree with my right hon. Friend. The King does a tremendous job, and so did the late Queen. The Commonwealth is very important, and that is why the King and the Prime Minister are working together at the moment.

[Sir Oliver Dowden]

I thank the right hon. Lady for that answer. Our Commonwealth family is brought together by historical and cultural ties—indeed, much like the pair of us. [Interruption.] I will resist the temptation to replicate that. As we look to the Commonwealth’s future, we have the opportunity to deepen our economic relationship. Will she assure the House that the Prime Minister will use the summit to continue the work, begun by the last Government, of building deeper economic ties with our Commonwealth friends and allies?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

We talk about economics; the architect of the 2024 Tory general election campaign is doing his victory lap before retiring with the hereditary peers that he fought so hard to protect. He leaves behind a Tory party in utter denial—heads in the sand, refusing to accept their rejection by the British public. Their plan for Britain includes scrapping the minimum wage, cutting maternity pay and tax breaks for the big oil companies. This Labour Government were elected—[Interruption.]