Fertility Treatment and Employment Rights

Nusrat Ghani Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Science and Investment Security (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward.

I am standing in today for the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), but I want to put it on the record that we work as a team within BEIS—it is absolutely spot-on that BEIS is responding to this debate today.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) on securing this important debate about fertility treatment and employment rights. We have heard so many shocking stories about the impact that this invasive treatment has on women, couples and families. However, I will take a moment to say that we have probably all been a little bit complicit in this situation, have we not? So many of us will know girlfriends, family members or colleagues who wanted to keep this treatment a secret; we have kept it a secret for them, because they were anxious about the behaviour they may experience at work. It is so important to get this issue out into the open. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend: putting together the fertility workplace pledge will be a fantastic contribution during her career in Parliament, which has only just begun. I thank her so much for bringing this matter to the fore.

There have been a lot of discussions about the challenges of infertility treatment and the impact that it has on women and couples, and potentially on their employment as well. We know from the statistics that so many people are going through the treatment, so it is shocking that it is still a secret. In 2019, about 53,000 patients had 69,000 IVF cycles and 5,700 donor insemination cycles at licensed fertility clinics in the UK. Those are huge statistics. The fact that women and couples feel that they cannot talk about their treatment in case they are treated in an inappropriate fashion is shocking.

National Fertility Awareness Week, which is actually this week, is a superb event; it starts off with awareness of fertility fairness, awareness of fertility in the workplace and evolves into awareness of infertility. It is great to have heard some male contributions today. There is also fertility education and taught fertility, as well.

I pay tribute to everyone who has contributed today, including the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart), and my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes)—who would dare to challenge my right hon. Friend, the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee? Additionally, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine), who has a tremendous record on health issues; I am also a little bit anxious about responding to his point. Of course I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell), who always speaks so sensibly as well.

I will quickly go through some of the work that the Government are doing and hopefully respond to some of the questions that were put, too. There is no denying that IVF is one of the most invasive fertility treatments. I do not understand why anybody would compare it to a cosmetic procedure; that is just absurd. It is invasive, gruelling and stressful, and it can last for years. We all have girlfriends who have started the process; it takes many years and has a financial impact as well, so there is no denying that it is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Also, injecting is a private matter and many women want that private space to inject themselves as well.

What we are talking about today is the fact that women and couples just cannot come forward and explain that they are going through this treatment, because they are anxious about how they are going to be treated in the workplace. As has been mentioned, that is an absurd anomaly because we are struggling to fill jobs and we want skilled people, who are loyal and who understand the workplace, to remain in work.

Something is not quite right and we know that the situation has to change. The issue is cultural, because we want people to be able to come forward, present what they are going through and have the support that they need within the workplace. We obviously need a cultural change, which is why the pledge is so important. Sometimes it is quicker to get businesses to move than Government, so, once again, congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster for putting that pledge in place.

I want to reflect on some of the work being done by the Government. We have the women’s health strategy, which looks at the system as a whole: educating society at large and looking at the role that the health sector, employers and individuals can play. This summer, the first Government led “Women’s Health Strategy for England” was published, and a woman’s health ambassador was appointed to drive system-level changes to close the gender health gap. The theme of the health and wellbeing fund 2022 to 2025 is women’s reproductive wellbeing in the workplace. The fund supports organisations to expand and develop projects that support women experiencing reproductive health issues to remain in, or return to, the workplace.

The Government also have an active agenda on work and health more widely. We want employers and employees to have better interactions about work and health. That is particularly important in tackling some of the perception issues around women’s health generally, and IVF specifically. The Government’s response to the “Health is Everyone’s Business” consultation was published in July 2021. It sets out some of the measures we will take to reduce health-related job losses; that was spoken about today and is obviously a major issue that needs to be addressed. “Health is Everyone’s Business” did not consult on infertility or any other specific conditions. It looked at system-level measures to support employers and employees to manage any health condition in the workplace.

There has been some conversation around the employment rights Bill, and why it was not in the Queen’s Speech. That was raised by the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North. We are obviously disappointed that the Queen’s Speech did not include an employment Bill for the third Session of this Parliament, but some good things have come out recently that are cross party; I know that my colleague, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), wanted to have a little pop at the Conservative party, but we work with Members across the House.

Numerous private Members’ Bills have been introduced on employment rights as a result of the PMB ballot. In particular, there has been the Neonatal Care (Leave and Pay) Bill, the Employment (Allocation of Tips) Bill, the Protection from Redundancy (Pregnancy and Family Leave) Bill, the Carer’s Leave Bill and the Employment Relations (Flexible Working) Bill.

Good work is being done through private Members’ Bills, even though we may not have the employment Bill that everybody is asking for in this debate. The private Member’s Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster will require employers to allow employees to take time off for appointments for fertility treatment, as she said. I know that the Minister responsible will engage with her intensely before the appropriate time is made available for the Bill to return to the House.

I am anxious that we do not put across too much of a negative story on existing rights and entitlements, because there is already some good stuff out there. Even though there is no overarching right to time off for medical appointments, there are a number of ways employees may be able to take time off to attend medical appointments, including for IVF. I do not want anyone listening to feel any more stressed than they already do, if they are considering or going through IVF.

Many employers are willing to agree informal flexible working arrangements on a short-term basis. An individual may be able to take annual leave, or agree general unpaid leave with their employer. Fundamentally, the pledge campaign that my hon. Friend has put in place will really challenge some employers who have an old-fashioned view. It would be a badge of honour for these firms to say, “We have this in place”, because it will not only attract new staff but retain the staff they currently have.

If an individual is unwell, they can take a period of sickness absence and may be entitled to statutory or occupational sick pay. We cannot legislate to make employers act with compassion, but if employers want to employ committed employees one of the things they can do is adopt the fertility workplace pledge. It is a really positive step in taking this agenda forward and, as we have heard, a number of employers have already signed up, so I have no doubt that over a period of time it will grow and grow.

I will reference some of the comments made by colleagues. My hon. Friend the Member for Winchester spoke about NICE guidance on three opportunities at IVF. I am speaking outside of my brief, as these issues fall to the Department for Health, but we recognise that NHS-funded access to fertility services has been varied for a long time, and our ambition is to see an end to the postcode lottery. The Government published the health strategy in July this year, which made a commitment to address the geographic variations over the 10-year lifetime of the strategy. I have no doubt that my hon. Friend will carry on campaigning for that. The hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East talked about miscarriage leave. Once again, that is outside of BEIS—it falls to the Department for Health.

[Angela Crawley]

I want to comment on that specific point. This is about the right to paid leave, so it does sit specifically within the BEIS portfolio.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I will give a response to that as well, which will hopefully provide some satisfaction.

Miscarriage is obviously a personal experience; there are opportunities to try and request time away from work, and we need to ensure employers understand that. The pledge, for example, is one way of getting employers to understand how important it is to treat their employees with due care if they want to retain people in work. I think I covered the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North; if I have not, I am sure she will pop up and intervene. She has not, so I believe that she is satisfied, which is a wonderful place to be when it comes to that particular Member.

I am not directly responsible for this brief, but I want to confirm with colleagues that I am incredibly passionate about it. So many people have gone through these issues, and here in Parliament we can promote it in particular and stop women being discreet about something that is so difficult and evasive.

I have already set out some of the Government’s activity in supporting health issues, in particular when it comes to those undergoing IVF. We have talked about how difficult it is to employ and retain loyal staff, and what we have been discussing is one way of dealing with that issue. Why would employers not sign up to the fertility workplace pledge? It does not make sense. I encourage my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster to do as much work as she can to promote the companies that sign up and out the companies that do not. I am determined to work with all my colleagues in BEIS to ensure that we are playing a full role in driving this agenda forward.

I thank everyone once again for this helpful and informative debate; it is important that we talk about these issues openly, and I wish my hon. Friend luck with the progress of her private Member’s Bill.