Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I wish to inform the House that the knife will fall at 5.15 pm. I will call Mr Sharma next, then Mr Hughes, and I would like both to be mindful that if they wish to hear the Minister sum up, they must leave her time to do so.

[Mr Virendra Sharma]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak in this debate on the amendment to include caste in the Bill.

Before we debate caste, we need to understand what the caste system means. It has been a deep-rooted tradition among Indian sub-continent communities for centuries. Various social reform movements of the last 1,000 years have declared discrimination on the basis of caste to be unacceptable. Many saints, rishis, social reformers and gurus have campaigned on the issue. Indeed, every page of the Sikh holy book, the Guru Granth Sahib—from which my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) quoted—speaks, in one way or the other, against inequality in society. Many other faiths—Jainism, Buddhism—also speak against discrimination, highlighting caste before moving on to other inequalities in society.

However, after centuries, we are still talking about the fact that there is a caste system in society. It might be alien to British society, but for people who have lived or come from there, it is in them, which is why, when India gained independence from Britain, it had to pass a law—it is in the constitution—saying that nobody can discriminate against another individual in employment, service delivery or, above all, social life. Why did India have to do that if educating people or persuading them to change their habits and practices was such a simple matter? It shows that even Dr Ambedkar, Pandit Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi and many other leading members of the Indian political movement accepted that doing so was not easy. That is why that law was introduced in the constitution.

We need to understand what is in India, but we also need to understand how we are living in British society. I feel proud to represent the constituency of Ealing, Southall, in which Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Dalits—we are using that term now—and many other minorities from different parts of the world live. I feel proud to say in this place that we all live together peacefully, supporting each other. We have the Sikh procession, which all the communities join—I am sure that many Members who are present can speak about that as well. Whenever there are any issues in the community, we come together and address them.

There has been a change in social life as well. People are entering inter-caste marriages and there is more closeness, but there is still an element when we are talking about employment and, in certain areas, service delivery as well. The hon. Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma) asked how many cases there were, and although sometimes we do not have the details of cases, we know that such practices are going on. In previous years, before 1976, there was indirect discrimination—that is, if it was not direct discrimination—and now there is still indirect discrimination.

I would like to make one other point. We are not talking about something that is anti-Hindu, anti-Sikh or anti-Jainist or against any other high-class, high-caste community. This is not against them; it is introducing equality, so that where any individual or group feels that they are being discriminated against, they will have the legal remedy that we are introducing today.

As I have said, there is not a major issue in my constituency. I feel proud that the Sikhs and Hindus there actively promote unity among all faiths. That is why we all meet together at the processions and at many other functions. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who is in his place, was in my constituency on Sunday when the Tamil new year was celebrated. Members of all the other religions and faith groups were present at those celebrations. There is not an issue in people’s social lives.

We have heard suggestions about placing the value of education over the value of legislation in protecting individuals against caste discrimination. Of course education is key to changing attitudes and behaviour, but it is also necessary to reduce discrimination in the long term. Legislation is necessary to ensure that any victim of discrimination is protected, and to provide legal redress against discrimination. Adding “caste” alongside “race” in section 9 of the Equality Act 2010 will reaffirm our commitment to fight prejudice of any kind and to protect any individual who feels discriminated against. I can only hope that, as a testimony to the strong unity that I have witnessed in the Hindu and Sikh communities, the amendment will never have to be used in practice.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This group of amendments also includes the first statutory regulation of the press since the late 17th century. For the House of Commons to be unable to vote specifically on such a major constitutional issue seems to me to deny our constituents their right to maintain freedom of speech in the country at large, and I hope that you will find some procedure—and the Clerks, in their wisdom, will find some precedent from the early days of Parliament—so that we may vote on this motion.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Members for the point of order, but if you do not know of a precedent, Mr Rees-Mogg, it is probably not worth knowing. I am a servant of the House and I am directed by Standing Order No. 83F(6) to put a single question on all remaining Lords amendments once those to which a Minister has indicated an intention to disagree have been disposed of. Hon. Members may of course vote against that question, which will be to agree to several Lords amendments, including those to which they have drawn attention this evening.

Lords amendments 1 to 34, 39 and 41 to 120 agreed to, with Queen’s Consent signified to amendment 71 and Commons financial privileges waived in respect of Lords amendments 64 to 66 and 104.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83H), That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their amendments ;

That Stephen Crabb, Ian Murray, Jo Swinson, Mr Iain Wright and Paul Uppal be members of the Committee;

That Jo Swinson be the Chair of the Committee;

That three be the quorum of the Committee.

That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—(Mr Swayne.)

Question agreed to.

Committee to withdraw immediately; reasons to be reported and communicated to the Lords.

Defamation Bill (Programme) (No.2)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Defamation Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 12 June 2012 (Defamation Bill (Programme)):

Consideration of Lords Amendments

1. Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement at today’s sitting.

Subsequent stages

2. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any Question being put.

3. The Proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement. —(Mr Swayne.)

Question agreed to.