Afghanistan (Civilian Killings)

Debate between Nick Harvey and Denis MacShane

Monday 12th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Nick Harvey]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. In addition to their past atrocities, the Taliban are also responsible for the great majority of civilian deaths in Afghanistan—77% in the past year.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Two years and nine months is half the length of the second world war, and a plan that cannot be changed in the light of circumstances is barely worth the paper it is written on. The Minister has a hard job, and we are not here to criticise, but these incidents and atrocities are typical of the end of an occupation or a conflict. We cannot justify British soldiers dying between now and withdrawal. Does the Minister agree that we should honour the sacrifice of our men by ensuring that no more are sacrificed?

[Nick Harvey]

Nobody has said that we are adhering to a plan that cannot be changed. The point I have been at pains to make is that the plan has not been changed as yet. Of course we follow closely, as do the ISAF commanders, the situation on the ground. The plans will reflect the realities as we go forward. This is a process of transition. I said that we have gone through two of the five phases of transition—and it is broadly working. I have to say that the rate of casualties on our side has come down markedly. I simply do not think that the right hon. Gentleman is right: if we were to pack up and leave now, it would make a mockery of everything that has been done to date.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Harvey and Denis MacShane

Monday 4th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Nick Harvey]

Those are pre-eminently matters of foreign policy which my hon. Friend should put to the Foreign Secretary, who will have heard the question and will reflect upon it.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

In terms of the killing of civilians, torture, repression, and the export and support of terrorism, does the Ministry of Defence draw any distinction between Colonel Gaddafi and Bashar al-Assad of Syria; and if so, what is it?

[Nick Harvey]

Again, that is predominantly a question of foreign policy, but clearly the foreign policy circumstances are very different in the two countries. In the case of Libya, a regional power invited an intervention and a UN Security Council resolution authorised all necessary force. In the case of Syria, no regional body is inviting an intervention; more to the point, as yet, there has been no progress on a UN resolution, although the UK has a draft before the UN.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Harvey and Denis MacShane

Monday 16th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Nick Harvey]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the Gulf states are key partners in the battle against international terrorism and more widely. That said, we are concerned at events in some of the Gulf states. We urge all Governments to meet their human rights obligations, to uphold political freedoms and to recognise that those things do not run contrary to security but are in fact integral to longer-term stability. We believe that dialogue is the way to fulfil the aspirations of all, and we urge all sides, including opposition groupings, to engage.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

The Government, rightly in my view, are calling for Colonel Gaddafi to be referred to the International Criminal Court. Does the Minister agree, therefore, that the President of Syria, Bashar al-Assad, should be similarly referred because he is killing and torturing just as many people in Syria as Gaddafi is in Libya?

[Nick Harvey]

I understand that Gaddafi has already been referred to the court and that that decision was taken internationally at the ICC. I entirely see the comparison that the right hon. Gentleman is drawing and it would seem to me that the international forces that reached the conclusions they did about Gaddafi are highly likely to arrive at a similar conclusion.