Welfare Reform and Work Bill (First sitting)

Neil Coyle Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Hannah Bardell]

Q 13 Would you be willing to consult with them on it?

Marcus Mason: Of course, yes.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

Q 14 I should say that I have an honorary role within my local chambers of commerce, which I think I am meant to declare—sorry, Chair. I, too, am new to this.

[The Chair]

It is on the record now.

[Neil Coyle]

Brilliant, thank you.

[The Chair]

You have to attend now.

[Neil Coyle]

I do—I love it.

I have had a really good briefing from the FSB, which shares some of the concerns that you have touched on about the number of new apprenticeships in particular. The FSB says that 60% of its members already take on an apprentice and are concerned about the quality, how to access the best apprenticeship scheme for them and the complexity involved that you touched on, Rebecca. This is primarily a question for Rebecca and Marcus: what does that process look like? What are you advising the Government to build in to the current plans to ensure that your members and other small and medium-sized enterprises in particular can access the best and most appropriate apprenticeships for them?

My second question touches on the point that the Minister and Rebecca made about hard-to-reach groups. Is there a real opportunity here to focus these apprenticeships on specific areas of the country, specific areas of employment and specific groups who we know to be disadvantaged, such as disabled people and carers, to make sure that your employers are supporting the Government to deliver that target to cut the employment gap?

Rebecca Plant: Yes, I would absolutely support a proportion of those apprenticeships being put to one side, with a group of employers making a commitment to support disadvantaged young people—care leavers especially—and to give them the proper support they need to enter work and make sure the relationship sticks between the employer and the young person. It is important, because they are talented individuals.

On the second question about how you make it easy—this is where I am not going to answer your question and bumble. How do you make it easy? It is cracking the golden nut. We have the National Apprenticeship Service. We have so many people now involved in trying to get businesses interested in taking apprentices, and it is difficult to see how much more you can actually do. My question is: is there too much guidance and advice? Where is the central repository? Who is your go-to person? That is the piece, I think. When you think of all the careers advice and all the apprenticeship service websites, everything out there is really difficult to navigate. If you are a small business—oh my God!—there are terrifying amounts of information out there. What is your go-to service?

[Neil Coyle]

Q 15 At the moment should that be the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, jobcentres or local authorities? Who should be providing that role, if it is so complex at the moment? Should it be chambers of commerce, or the Federation of Small Businesses, for example?

Rebecca Plant: This is where I get sent to the Tower of London. I think Jobcentre Plus should be more active in its role. It should engage much more with anyone from those just starting out in their early careers, to career changers, to people in the golden ends of their job life. Actually, do you know what—there is probably a network there already that is set up to deliver regionally. I think that they have the methods and means.

I am going to say something massively controversial now. I am stunned at times by the engagement that you get from people within the National Apprenticeship Service or the Skills Funding Agency over their commercial awareness. You have got employers who want to do things; you have got interested young people out there; you have got everything, but you sometimes hit against the wrong people, who have been in that environment for way too long and so are resistant to change and to looking further than how things have been done over the last 20 years. I think you sometimes come up against a lot of brick walls within those areas. Shall I stop there?

Marcus Mason: I think when it comes to how businesses can access the best apprenticeships, the kind of follow-on from that is that they have to access the best providers, and they need some advice on that. It is still quite difficult for a business to figure out who the best provider for them is. It was mooted some years back in one of the many reviews of apprenticeships that there should be some kind of TripAdvisor-type app or website that easily collects business or employer feedback on apprenticeships and therefore kind of ranks providers so that it is easily accessible, and there for businesses to see. Something like that could be very helpful.

Of course, I would say this, but I think chambers of commerce and the FSB—we have been working with the FSB on promoting apprenticeships—are very well placed. They know within their local network of businesses who is taking on apprentices and who is not. They are very well placed; they have got that local intelligence to be able to target relevant companies to try to convince them and support them to take on apprentices.

Also, small and medium-sized businesses in particular are not necessarily totally fully aware of their training needs, so it is about finding ways of being able to support them to identify what training needs they have. Often they have very short planning time horizons. So we have seen examples within the chamber network that we can submit as supporting evidence where chambers are going into businesses, helping them to identify their long-term training needs. Often, off the back of that, you might see a take-up of apprenticeships.

[The Chair]

I am conscious of the time, and of the fact that Mr Holmes and Mr Little have not had the opportunity to answer questions yet. Stephen, I think you want to put some questions, but before then, Jo, do you want to ask a question of Mr Mason or Rebecca Plant? Quickly, please—then they can have a rest.