Detainee Mistreatment: Judge-led Inquiry

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Monday 15th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

It is not just a matter of something being difficult; it is a matter of Ministers having to consider the best course of action when we are talking about the work of security and intelligence agencies, which, by definition, has to be done in secret and whose disclosure could do considerable harm to our national interests.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (IGC)]

Governments all over the world are challenging international law and the rules-based international order, and we have a President in the United States who clearly does not support those laws, so is it not time for our Government to accept that the promises they made at the Dispatch Box should be carried out? The right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), the Father of the House, is one of the most experienced figures in these matters, and he has been persistent in trying to get the clarity we need on these issues. When the Government make what I hope will be an oral statement on this, should they not bring the matter to a conclusion rather than forcing us to come back to it again under a new Prime Minister?

[Mr Lidington]

It will not be in my power to decide whether the House wishes to return to these issues, but I can promise the hon. Gentleman that this will be a definitive statement.

National Security Council Leak

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Thursday 2nd May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The question of the classification of documents is kept under review the whole time. In my recent experience, some Cabinet papers have been classified at secret level and others at a lower level. The classification depends on the substance of what is included in those papers. My hon. Friend also asked about future legislation, and we are obviously keen to bring forward the measure to which he referred, and other Bills, to the House as soon as we can.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Change UK)]

The former Secretary of State for Defence clearly thought that it was his way or the Huawei, and he has been told by the Prime Minister to go away, but he has not shut up. Is it not the reality that we will not get the truth unless the former Defence Secretary makes a resignation or sacking statement to this House and we have the chance to debate it to get to the bottom of the fiasco?

[Mr Lidington]

Whether my right hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire wants to apply to you, Mr Speaker, to make a personal statement is a matter for him, but there has been a public exchange of letters between him and the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister came to her decision for the reasons that she gave, and I have tried to set those out this morning. Her sense that the decision was necessary was accompanied by a sense of real sadness, because this is not a decision that any Prime Minister would take lightly and it would not be made without considerable regret.

Business of the House

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Tuesday 18th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The timetable for any general election is laid down by the Fixed-term Parliaments Act and the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. A general election on the same day as the local elections would not be possible, given what the laws require.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Inflation is rising, real living standards are potentially going to decline and we know that there will be very difficult negotiations with our European Union partners. Is not the real reason that the Prime Minister has called this election so that she can avoid having a general election in 2020, which would be very dangerous for her party? She thinks that she can win now in order to avoid dealing with the consequences of a hard Brexit.

[Mr Lidington]

The country I look at is one in which unemployment is falling, employment is at record levels, the deficit is down and there are record levels of spending on key public services, which is made possible because of the strong economy that my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have fostered. I look forward to a general election and to making the case to the people for that programme of political commitment and the leadership of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to continue.

Business of the House

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Thursday 23rd March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend asks his question in a great historical tradition, because Magna Carta itself mentions the importance of maintaining fish weirs in the River Thames. He has drawn attention to one of the great successes of recent decades: the renewal of marine and river life in the estuaries of the Thames and other rivers that serve our country’s great industrial cities. I hope the money that was announced recently will enable that development to be taken further forward.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

May we have an early debate on rules of origin documentation, particularly the fivefold or sevenfold increase that will be required when this country leaves the customs union?

[Mr Lidington]

I agree that that is an important subject, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be ingenious enough to raise it in the course of numerous debates we will be having on European issues in forthcoming months.

Business of the House

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Thursday 26th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

Because of the need to bring the public finances under control, all parts of the public sector are having to face difficult decisions about spending. I point the hon. Gentleman towards Women and Equalities questions on Thursday 2 February, when he will have the opportunity to raise that matter with Ministers.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Leader of the House and I were both first elected in 1992, and he will recall the many, many days we spent on the Maastricht treaty. Will he tell the House how much consideration he has given to previous debates on such matters, not only in ’92 but in the 1970s, when we joined the European Union? What discussions were there at that time and what consideration was given to what the Opposition parties said then, compared with now?

[Mr Lidington]

If I am honest, any of us who came into the House in 1992 would probably not look back at those debates on the Maastricht treaty as the greatest moment of glory for the House of Commons, and they are not something that we necessarily want to put more recently arrived colleagues through. Given the very narrow scope of the Bill that is being published today, the five days that we have announced and the substantial amount of additional time, particularly on Second Reading, Parliament has plenty of opportunity to have a debate on this matter in full.

Business of the House

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We certainly pride ourselves, rightly, on being a country that lives by the rule of law. The case in question involves some very important constitutional matters concerning the respective powers of the Executive, Parliament and, indeed, the courts themselves, so it is right and inevitable that this will end up in front of the Supreme Court. My right hon. Friend, like other hon. Members, will have an opportunity to make such points again on Monday.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The High Court has ruled that the

“government does not have power”

to trigger article 50. May we therefore have a debate to celebrate taking back control and parliamentary democracy, and to argue that Parliament should determine when article 50 is triggered on the basis of full consideration of the implications of the advisory referendum?

[Mr Lidington]

The hon. Gentleman has aired his view. I cannot recollect at the moment whether he voted for or against the European Union Referendum Bill when it came before Parliament. I suspect that he did not vote against it at the time, which might make his call for a celebration now seem slightly odd. As I have said, this is a matter about which hon. Members can question Ministers on Monday, and we shall then have to await the appeal hearing.

Europe: Renegotiation

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has always said that he is seeking a deal on reform that is substantive. That will be challenging to negotiate, and I do not want any Member to think that these reforms will somehow fall easily into our lap. There will be some tough negotiations ahead.

The importance of the words on “ever closer union” is that they encapsulate the fact that the EU at the moment is insufficiently flexible, still thinking of a single destination on integration for all its member states. As the Prime Minister said in his speech this morning, we need to see a much greater acceptance of the diversity of Europe at the moment. We need to see a readiness to live and let live, accepting that some countries will want to integrate more closely but others will wish to stand apart from that and that the decisions of each group should be properly respected.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister said that the agreement must be legally binding and irreversible. Will he clarify what he means by “irreversible”? Does it mean what happened in the case of the John Major opt-out on the social chapter, which was then reversed by the Tony Blair Government? Does it mean that no future democratically elected Government would be able to reverse a decision taken at this time by this Government?

[Mr Lidington]

Obviously, as Parliament is sovereign, not least in the fact that EU law has direct effect in the UK only because of Acts of Parliament—decisions of this House—the irreversibility of any decision any Government take on anything is limited. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s question, we are keen to avoid a repeat of the sort of thing that happened over the European financial stabilisation mechanism earlier this year, when, in the heat of a crisis in the eurozone, a deal that had been solemnly agreed by all 28 member states in December 2010 suddenly appeared to be at risk and came up for discussion in a meeting where only 19 member Governments were gathered together. That is not the way in which we can do business in Europe in the future.

European Union Referendum Bill

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes]

rose—

[Mr Lidington]

I am overwhelmed by Members’ enthusiasm.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Gapes]

Have the Government considered the fact that if there is a referendum on the same day as local elections, in some wards one candidate for a party will be campaigning for a yes vote and another from the same party will be campaigning for a no vote? That might make it difficult for the political parties to co-ordinate their literature, apart from anything else, if they are going to take a united position.

[Mr Lidington]

One thing about the European referendum campaign, which I think the public will expect, is that people from both the hon. Gentleman’s party and mine will be campaigning in both the yes and no camps. Both parties are broad churches and we accept that that is a reality. I do not think the British public are incapable of understanding that the European question is one that cuts across normal party political boundaries.

I wish to move on to deal with the amendment on electronic voting tabled by the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington. I do not want to cause him too great a shock in saying that I am not wholly unsympathetic to some of the points he makes. I have been to Estonia and talked to Estonian Ministers about what they have put in place, not only on electronic voting, but in delivering almost all interaction between citizen and government through digital means. Given current advances in IT, I can see how e-voting sounds attractive, but we would have to consider a number of issues carefully and thoroughly before this country committed itself to going down that path.

Most obviously, there are genuine concerns that e-voting is not sufficiently rigorous and could be vulnerable to attack or fraud. The last thing that would serve the interests of Parliament or of democracy in this country would be for us to move swiftly to a system of electronic voting that led to still greater public mistrust in the integrity of our democratic process. Particularly when selecting elected representatives or deciding an issue of national importance in a referendum, it is essential that we have the highest possible security, and I am not convinced that we have the requisite assurance yet. Even in the short exchanges that have taken place on this subject, different views have been expressed about whether or not the pilots in the past have led to a serious increase in turnout. That is another point to be borne in mind.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Tuesday 28th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

Only last week we held one of our regular discussions with the Turkish authorities about counter-terrorism co-operation. The subjects discussed included better work to detect explosive traces in material going through airports and how we can better share information about airline passengers to guard against future terrorist attack.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister referred to Turkey’s role with regard to Syria. Does he agree that it is absolutely deplorable that the Turkish Government are not providing assistance to the besieged people of Kobane and the other Syrian Kurds facing an existential threat from ISIL? Turkey needs to get off the fence and to decide which side it is on. Is it with ISIL, or is it with the civilian population and the Kurds in Syria?

[Mr Lidington]

The Turkish Government have made it very clear that they are on the side of the coalition and against ISIL. They are now allowing Kurdish fighters to cross through Turkish territory to take part in the fighting around Kobane. It is also worth the hon. Gentleman bearing it in mind that Turkey is providing refuge to 1.5 million people who have fled the fighting in Iraq and Syria, and we ought to acknowledge that contribution too.

Government Strategy Against IS

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Friday 12th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister said that the Government welcome the statement made by President Obama. President Obama is very clear that the United States will engage in air strikes not just in Iraq but in Syria. It has been suggested that the reticence of and division between the Foreign Secretary and No. 10 relate to legal advice that military action and air strikes in Syria would be illegal. Can the Minister clarify? Is it the view that the military action proposed by the Obama Administration in Syria would be legal under international law? If that is the case, why should there not be any UK involvement in similar legal action against Isis in Syria and in Iraq?

[Mr Lidington]

The basic fact is that no decisions about UK military action have been taken or are being asked of us at the moment, so much of the hon. Gentleman’s line of questioning is somewhat academic. As both the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have said in the House, there are differences—not least important logistical differences—between the situations in Iraq and Syria. The immediate challenge from ISIS to a legitimate democratically elected Government comes in Iraq. That is why, at the invitation of that Government, we and other allies are giving priority to that particular case.

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Friday 29th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes]

Of course I am sympathetic to those amendments. I have not commented on them because they have not been introduced by the Member who tabled them. I thought that it would be better to listen and to intervene at a later stage, if necessary.

I am happy to conclude by commending all my amendments to the House. I look forward to the consideration of the amendments that have been tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) and by other hon. Members.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

This group of amendments deals with various matters pertaining to the detailed conduct of the proposed referendum.

Amendments 52 to 55 would impose deadlines on the Electoral Commission. Existing legislation gives the commission appropriate powers and responsibilities. Particularly as we do not yet know the exact date on which the referendum will take place, it would be wrong to impose undue inflexibility on the commission, as these amendments would.

Amendment 17 would impose thresholds. The Government believe that the referendum result should be determined, as in other referendums, by a simple majority of those who vote. Thresholds should not be required in respect of turnout or anything else.

Diplomatic Relations (Spain)

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

Royal Navy vessels make frequent good will visits to Gibraltar as part of their operations, and I am sure that pattern will continue in future.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Hundreds of thousands of British people live in Spain and large numbers of Spanish people live in this country. Many of them will be very concerned about a possible deterioration in the relationship between the two countries. What action will the Minister take to resolve the matter by involving the European Commission again, given that we are both member states of the European Union?

[Mr Lidington]

We will always consider trying to involve the European Commission where it has competence, but it does not have competence to determine sovereignty. That sovereignty was set out in the treaty of Utrecht and has been confirmed by the freely expressed vote of the people of Gibraltar many times.

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Friday 22nd November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The amendments in the second group fall into four broad categories. First, there is the amendment that would provide for an additional consultation process on the referendum question, going beyond what is set out and what has already been undertaken. The key point that I want to make is that it has been normal practice under successive Governments for a referendum question to be spelled out very clearly on the face of the Bill that authorises that referendum, and the Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South (James Wharton) therefore follows that established practice.

Secondly, amendment 71 in the name of the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) seeks to add to the requirements for when the power to set the date of the referendum is used. The amendment specifies that the Secretary of State could appoint only the day for the referendum that was specified in a resolution of each House. I draw the attention of the House to the fact that under clause 1(6) the Bill already requires the order to be approved in draft by a resolution of each House, and that draft would include the date of the referendum.

The third category of amendments deals with the languages in which the question should be posed. We have amendments before us dealing with both the Welsh language and Scots Gaelic. Amendment 37, which seeks to substitute the phrase “Welsh translation” for the phrase “Welsh version”, would have no substantive legal effect. It would not serve any particular purpose. It would not change anything. I draw the attention of the hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) to the fact that the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011, which authorised the referendum on the alternative vote system for the House of Commons, used the term “Welsh version” rather than “Welsh translation”. Again, we are going by established precedent.

[Mike Gapes]

I will speak to the amendment if I am called later, but the Minister makes an interesting point. When I tabled the amendment, I was not sure whether Mr Speaker would select it for debate. In fact he has done so on the basis that it is a serious amendment, so I assume that there is a substantive question that needs to be explored, which is why it is on the amendment paper.

[Mr Lidington]

I am sure that every amendment tabled to any Bill by the hon. Gentleman is serious in intent, but Mr Speaker judges not the quality of the content of an amendment, but whether it is in order. If it is in order—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

It is orderly. I am sure that no one will want to challenge Mr Speaker’s decision. I am correct on that I take it, Mr Gapes.

[Mike Gapes]

indicated assent.

[Mr Lidington]

I was not challenging Mr Speaker’s judgment on this matter, but the hon. Gentleman was perhaps over-interpreting the reasons why his amendment had been selected for debate.

With regard to the amendments on the Welsh language, we have already had legislation on referendums that uses the terminology set out in this Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

An interesting feature of the report is that the commission did not come up with a firm alternative recommendation. Rather, it posed a number of questions and stated that it thought it should be for Parliament to consider whether those recommendations would meet the desire, which I think everyone shares, for maximum clarity and fairness.

[Mike Gapes]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Lidington]

I am going to make some progress. [Hon. Members: “Give way.”] The commission first proposed—[Interruption.]

European Union (Referendum) Bill

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Friday 8th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes]

No, I am afraid I want to conclude my remarks, because other Members wish to speak.

The Crown dependencies, including their very important financial institutions, would also be affected, so should be allowed to vote. We have discussed British overseas territories, so I will not spend any longer on that point, and we have also talked about Gibraltar at length. The important point is this: my amendments expose the Bill’s inadequacy and need for proper consideration and scrutiny. I hope the House will provide that and support at least some of my amendments.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

In response to the point from my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), I wish to make it clear that, in respect of this Bill, as has been the case with at least one or two other Bills since the 2010 general election, the two governing parties have agreed to differ in their approaches to a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU.

I want to address the various points made about Gibraltar.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

I am responding to the hon. Member for Ilford South. I am sure that the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) will have a chance to catch Madam Deputy Speaker’s eye in a few minutes if he wishes to go over again the points that were made in Committee.

The hon. Member for Ilford South raised the question of extending the franchise for UK expatriates beyond the 50-year maximum, which would be the effect of at least one of his amendments. He also proposed altering the general election franchise, in effect, to include European citizens as well as UK and Commonwealth citizens. All those are legitimate questions for debate but the purpose of the Bill is to apply the UK’s general election franchise terms to the proposed referendum.

[Mike Gapes]

Given that we are apparently going to use the UK’s general election criteria, why would there be a major anomaly? The citizens of three EU states would be able to vote in the referendum but others would not. Is that not a strange situation? Citizens of Cyprus, Malta and Ireland would be able to vote but French people living in London could not.

[Mr Lidington]

It is no more or less anomalous than the situation that applies already at our general elections, where citizens of those European Commonwealth countries who are legally resident here and registered as voters are entitled to participate, whereas nationals of other EU member states who are also lawfully resident are not so entitled to vote in a UK general election. In respect of the hon. Gentleman’s amendments, it would be legitimate for him to use the vehicle of a representation of the people Bill at some stage to seek to alter the terms of the UK’s general election franchise in the way he proposes, but it is not appropriate to use the Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South to make such a change when my hon. Friend’s purpose, as I understand it, is to apply the UK’s general election franchise to his proposed referendum. For that reason, I disagree with the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Ilford South and support the general election franchise as set out by my hon. Friend in his Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

What I would like to know from the hon. Gentleman and his party is whether they want to give the British people a say in our future in Europe or they are determined to deny them that say.

Given the reality of the debate that will take place, and given that the Electoral Commission would appoint umbrella organisations for yes and no campaigns, this well-intentioned new schedule is unnecessary because there is no need to specify organisations in that way.

The same is true of the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) about religious holidays and potential clashes with other elections. These matters already have to be considered.

[Mike Gapes]

The Minister should be aware that I have not yet had a chance to speak to those amendments, so he is referring to them in the absence of my having done so. I hope that I may get that chance on 22 November.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Can the Minister confirm that the Parliaments of countries that are applying the rules of the European Union in order to gain access to the single market, such as Norway and Switzerland, have absolutely no influence on decisions in the EU?

[Mr Lidington]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Certainly, Norwegian and Swiss leaders have consistently told me that they think the UK is in a better position to gets its own way in EU negotiations than they are.

Commission Work Programme 2013

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Monday 7th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The way this works, as the right hon. Gentleman will know from when he held my position, is that the Commission, under the treaties, has the right to initiate legislation, but even in the post-Lisbon world, the rotating six-monthly presidency chairs the various sectoral Council meetings and working groups, and has considerable influence in determining the relative priorities given to particular measures. A presidency may choose to try to fast-track a particular measure, and use its diplomatic resources to seek early agreement on it; it may place another measure, about which it cares less, on the back-burner. There is negotiation between the presidency and the Commission in that respect.

The Government have long argued for the Commission to come forward with measures to help boost growth, through agreements with important trading partners, and by strengthening and deepening the single market. I am sure that the House will welcome the news that, last month, the European Union successfully concluded a free trade agreement with Singapore, which will create new opportunities for United Kingdom businesses, particularly in the export of services, green technologies, automotive, electronic and pharmaceutical items, and medical devices. There are also opportunities to bid for public procurement contracts in Singapore.

We will continue to work on many more such agreements. I hope that it will be possible to conclude the proposed EU free trade agreement with Canada in the coming weeks, to open negotiations between the EU and the United States by the summer, and to take forward free trade negotiations with Japan. We will also continue to support efforts to achieve EU free trade agreements with India, Malaysia and other countries.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

On free trade agreements with the United States, does the Minister agree with me and with many commentators that the chances of the European Union getting effective agreement with the United States will be significantly less if the UK is not part of the negotiation, and that it is in the UK’s interests that the European Union is able to negotiate effectively with the United States and other countries, which would not be possible if we were outside?

[Mr Lidington]

I have always taken the view that if the United Kingdom were to walk away from the table, the most ardent and most influential champion for free trade and open markets would be removing itself. I am quite clear in my mind, particularly with the pressures that we can observe globally for protection rather than free trade, that it is important that we continue to bring our influence to bear within the European Union and within other multilateral organisations to promote greater freedom of trade across the world.

Judiciary and Fundamental Rights

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I beg to move,

That this House takes note of Unnumbered Explanatory Memorandum of 7 July 2011, the European Union Common Position on Judiciary and Fundamental Rights (Negotiation Chapter 23), relating to EU enlargement: Croatia; and supports the Government’s decision to agree the Draft Common Position at COREPER on 29 June and to adopt formally that agreed position at European Council on 12 July.

This debate concerns the European Union’s common position on the judiciary and fundamental rights chapter—chapter 23—of the accession negotiations for Croatia. It also concerns the Government’s policy of agreeing that EU common position in Brussels in June and formally supporting its adoption at the Economic and Finance Council on 12 July. During the debate, I hope to bring the House up to date on some of the more recent developments in the Croatian accession process and on the various reports of the European Commission about the improvements that Croatia has made.

I shall start by addressing the more general question of enlargement before moving on to where Croatia fits within the process. The United Kingdom is, and has been from the start, a strong supporter of EU enlargement as an effective and dynamic agent of change. In a changing world in which economic and political weight is swinging eastwards, the European Union will remain strong only if it is outward-looking and continues to grow. Successive British Governments have believed that membership of the EU should be open to any European country that wants to join and meets the rigorous accession criteria.

There are three key arguments for our consistent, cross-party support in the House for the process of EU enlargement. The first such argument is one of principle. The European treaties make it clear that membership of the European Union is in principle available to any European country that wants to join and that meets the accession criteria. It is very hard to establish any reasonable ground on which we could say to Spain, Portugal or France that they should be a member of the European Union but to Croatia or another country of the Balkans or eastern Europe that they should not—if they meet the accession criteria. I stress that second element. Support in this country for enlargement goes back a long way. Some 23 years ago, in her Bruges speech of 1988, Margaret Thatcher declared, at time when it was not fashionable or even believable to do so, that it was important for everybody in Europe to remember that Prague, Warsaw and Budapest were also great European cities.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister also confirm that Istanbul is a European city and welcome the fact that President Gul of Turkey is here this week on an official visit? Does he look forward to the day when Turkey can also take its place in the European Union?

[Mr Lidington]

Yes, I certainly support what the hon. Gentleman has said. Labour and Conservative Governments alike have consistently taken the position that we support Turkey’s ambitions to join the European Union. That accession process has helped to drive both political and economic reform within Turkey, and we want to see further progress being made at the earliest possible date.

BBC World Service

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Thursday 19th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

One of the challenges that the World Service management faces is to draw up what I hope will be very ambitious and detailed plans to deliver a reduction in administrative and other inessential costs that match commitments of the sort that Government Departments throughout Whitehall, including the FCO, are already having to make. The BBC World Service has announced that it is committed to a significant reduction. We have not seen details of that, nor are we entitled to do so. It is an independent organisation, quite properly so, although the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee are of course free to investigate further.

I hope that the World Service will choose to make those plans public and will look to take advantage of the opportunities that will arise from the new arrangements for the relationship between the World Service and the BBC as a whole to merge and share costs where possible. For example, arrangements to combine studios for the World Service and other parts of the BBC would seem to be a sensible way forward. Indeed, the BBC has indicated that it is considering that in the context of the new arrangements.

[Mike Gapes]

Is the Minister aware that the BBC World Service spends proportionately less on human resources, finance and IT than the FCO? Is he also aware that there has been a reduction of about 32% in the management costs of the World Service since 2009?

[Mr Lidington]

The hon. Gentleman, perhaps uncharacteristically, is choosing to overlook the fact that the FCO is responsible for well over 100 operations in different countries overseas and that in those circumstances the requirements of currency operations and IT add up to quite a considerable overhead. I welcome the public commitment of the World Service to a significant reduction in its administrative costs, and I am sure that the House looks forward to seeing how it proposes to deliver that.

European Union Bill

Debate between Mike Gapes and David Lidington

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

May I remind the hon. Gentleman that since the adoption of the proposals in the Wright report, responsibility for arranging those debates on the European Union has passed from the Government to the Backbench Business Committee? It is for that Committee to make that provision from the 31 days available to it.

[Mike Gapes]

The Government are hiding behind the words in the Wright Committee’s report. The reality is that if the Government wished to, and they thought that it was sufficiently important, we could have a debate in Government time on the Floor of the House, as we have always done, on the matters to be discussed in 10 days’ time at the European Council meeting, which comes at a crucial time for the future of this country and the EU. The issues range from the crises in Greece and Ireland, to climate change and the Cancun meeting, and what is happening with regard to China and its role in the world. Not least is what will happen over the coming decades with regard to migration policy and the impact that global changes will have on the people of north Africa and elsewhere who might wish to migrate to the EU. Those are the issues that we should be discussing.

We have had a lot of comments recently about Russia, although I will not depart from the subject of debate today. Frankly, the relationship between the EU and Russia is a complete shambles. There is no agreed approach on energy policy or on how we deal with human rights abuses and the suppression of democratic opposition in Russia. Why do we not have a debate about the role of the EU there? These are the vital questions, but instead of discussing them we are hiding behind the minutiae of a proposal, which if it is implemented will, as the hon. Member for Stone pointed out, put power not in the hands of a sovereign Parliament and Members of Parliament—elected representatives—but more and more in the hands of the judges and the judicial authorities, who will increasingly interfere in a political way. They will make the decisions about what matters are to be decided, not the elected people who represent the people of this country.

That is a fundamental matter, yet the Government are slipping this measure through, so that, with all the proposals in schedule 1, clause 18 and elsewhere, we will end up with the judicial system, not the political system, determining how this country is run. That is a fundamental decision—a fundamental matter—yet it has been slipped into the Bill as though it were a safeguard against the European Union taking away sovereignty. Actually, the proposal gives more power to the judges and to the legal system to take away parliamentary sovereignty. That is nothing to do with the European Union; Ministers themselves have determined those matters.