European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (Rule of Law)

Michael Tomlinson Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

It a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson). I will start my speech by agreeing with two of the points that she made, although I fundamentally disagree with her points and her stance on Brexit.

First, I agree that it is truly astonishing that we are having this debate today. It is faintly ridiculous that there should be an accusation, an allegation, that anyone on the Government Benches, let alone the Prime Minister, would fail to obey the rule of law. Secondly, I agree that the Act does not take no deal off the table. The hon. Lady was absolutely right to say that and to point to other weaknesses in the Act. She was right to be open and straightforward about a matter on which other Members have been less than straightforward.

[Mrs Main]

My hon. Friend is making some powerful points, and, like him, I completely agree with those points made by the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson). However, the hon. Lady also referred to a people’s vote on a deal. A deal would have to be negotiated to go to a people’s vote. There would have to be a considerable delay before that could happen if a deal was not secured.

[Michael Tomlinson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. I was going to mention the people’s vote, because that is where I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Lady. Apparently, the Liberal Democrats want a people’s vote, although we are now hearing that their position may be moving towards straightforward revocation. The irony is that they have said that if there were another vote and that vote was to leave, they would not abide by it: they would not accept it. Is that democratic? Is it democratic for the Liberal Democrats to say, “Let us have another vote, but if we do not like the result, we will not accept it”?

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

I am astonished by the way in which members of other parties proclaim our Liberal Democrat vision. It is simply not true that we would not abide by the result of a people’s vote if we gave them a vote on the final deal. We would give the people the final say on a deal. That is our line; there is nothing about not abiding by the result.

[Michael Tomlinson]

I am delighted that the hon. Lady has turned up for the debate. However, she failed to hear a previous Liberal Democrat statement that if the vote was for leave on a second occasion, they would not abide by it and would not accept it.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

It is hardly surprising that we should take that view, since the Liberal Democrats have form for not abiding by the last referendum result.

[Michael Tomlinson]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend.

There have been questions about why my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is to respond to the debate, and a ridiculous point of order was made at the beginning. My right hon. Friend is the Foreign Secretary and the first Secretary of State. He is, in effect, the Deputy Prime Minister, and it is perfectly appropriate and reasonable for him to respond to an emergency debate under Standing Order No. 24.

[Anna Soubry]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Michael Tomlinson]

No, I will not. I am going to carry on.

The leader of the Labour party stood up and said that the Prime Minister should stick to his word, and I completely agree. It is vital for the Prime Minister to stick to his word. He said that we must leave on 31 October. There has been a breakdown of trust between politicians and the people because we have not stuck to our word.

[Tracy Brabin (Batley and Spen) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Michael Tomlinson]

I am going to make some progress.

We have said that we are going to leave on 31 October. It is imperative that we do so, and I will be encouraging the Prime Minister to do precisely that.

There is a sense of unreality in the Chamber. We have been having, endlessly, the same debate on Brexit for the past three years, and democrats have not accepted the democratic result of the referendum. The leader of the Labour party says that the Prime Minister should stick to his word, but I invite the leader of the Labour party to stick to his word directly in relation to this Act.

This is what the leader of the Labour party said during last week’s debate.

“I repeat what I said last night. Let this Bill pass and gain Royal Assent”—

and, Mr Speaker, you yourself have confirmed that this Bill has received Royal Assent—

“and then we will back an election”.—[Official Report, 4 September 2019; Vol. 664, c. 292.]

Those are the Leader of the Opposition’s own words, in Hansard, said from the Dispatch Box. He invites the Prime Minister to stick to his word: absolutely, and we must leave on 31 October, but the leader of the Labour party should stick to his words. He should have the courage of his convictions. He should stand up and do what Opposition leaders should be doing, rather than chickening out and bottling it and failing to vote tonight for an election.

[Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

In examining the question of the rule of law does my hon. Friend agree that it is essential to look at the wording of the Act itself? Is there not a substantial degree of uncertainty in the duties that are being imposed upon the Prime Minister, not least because of the provisions contained in the so-called Kinnock amendment, and also because it is sometimes impossible to perform a duty if the framework of the duty that is to be complied with is itself incoherent and unclear, as it is in the Bill?

[Michael Tomlinson]

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. So far no one has suggested during the course of this debate that it would be proper to disobey the rule of law, and I agree entirely, but does that prevent the Government from examining precisely what the law does and does not say while still abiding by the rule of law?

Labour’s position on Brexit is entirely incoherent. The shadow Foreign Secretary says she is going to negotiate a deal but then, having negotiated the deal, she is actually going to vote against the deal that she herself has negotiated. The Labour leader has said that he wants a general election to be called as soon as the Bill is passed; the Bill is passed, and he is still running away from a general election.

There is such a sense of unreality in this Chamber. We have had these debates for three years. My constituents are saying, “Get on with it.” That is precisely what we should be doing.

[Several hon. Members rose—]